Network/Firewire Audio Linking

Jun 4, 2007 at 8:54am

Network/Firewire Audio Linking

So one of my more utility-based ideas for a patch has been to give me the ability to use PC VST plugins via my Mac’s sequencer (Cubase 4 Studio).

I haven’t researched it too much, but I’m under the impression that the netsend objects probably only work with control data. If I’m wrong, what’s latency like? Is it possible to use firewire to network a mac and a PC, and get max to recognize that network?

I also need to look more into the VST object helpfile/spec – if it’s possible, I might make Max Patch replicas of the VSTs I want to use, so that I can get control over them without needing to hook up a keyboard or mouse to the PC.

Anyway, any thoughts on the idea would be much appreciated. I expect this is going to be a tough undertaking, and I honestly don’t expect it to particularly well even if I do get it working – but I’d like to try.

#32254
Jun 4, 2007 at 1:07pm

I know that sending audio over a network with netsend or udpsend or any other currently available max object is not possible.

Don’t know about drivers that allow for low-latency networked audio though (would surely be interesting). If such a thing exists I can imagine it should be possible to do something smart with an aggregate device and soundflower on mac.

Mattijs

Quote: MuShoo wrote on Mon, 04 June 2007 10:54
—————————————————-
> So one of my more utility-based ideas for a patch has been to give me the ability to use PC VST plugins via my Mac’s sequencer (Cubase 4 Studio).
>
> I haven’t researched it too much, but I’m under the impression that the netsend objects probably only work with control data. If I’m wrong, what’s latency like? Is it possible to use firewire to network a mac and a PC, and get max to recognize that network?
>
> I also need to look more into the VST object helpfile/spec – if it’s possible, I might make Max Patch replicas of the VSTs I want to use, so that I can get control over them without needing to hook up a keyboard or mouse to the PC.
>
> Anyway, any thoughts on the idea would be much appreciated. I expect this is going to be a tough undertaking, and I honestly don’t expect it to particularly well even if I do get it working – but I’d like to try.
—————————————————-

#105752
Jun 4, 2007 at 2:37pm

Apple AUnetsend & AUnetreceive (AudioUnits, not VST’s though) do
this. There’s quite a bit of latency, unfortunately, that gets
progressively worse.

So they’re usable for streaming a Logic Pro mix to the stereo in your
living room, but for not much else.

Best,

Zip

Zip Boterbloem
Media Mechanics
Zwaluwstraat 54
2025 VR Haarlem
The Netherlands
+31627014758
zip@knoware.nl

Op 4-jun-2007, om 15:07 heeft Mattijs Kneppers het volgende geschreven:

>
> I know that sending audio over a network with netsend or udpsend or
> any other currently available max object is not possible.
>
> Don’t know about drivers that allow for low-latency networked audio
> though (would surely be interesting). If such a thing exists I can
> imagine it should be possible to do something smart with an
> aggregate device and soundflower on mac.
>
> Mattijs
>
> Quote: MuShoo wrote on Mon, 04 June 2007 10:54
> —————————————————-
>> So one of my more utility-based ideas for a patch has been to give
>> me the ability to use PC VST plugins via my Mac’s sequencer
>> (Cubase 4 Studio).
>>
>> I haven’t researched it too much, but I’m under the impression
>> that the netsend objects probably only work with control data. If
>> I’m wrong, what’s latency like? Is it possible to use firewire to
>> network a mac and a PC, and get max to recognize that network?
>>
>> I also need to look more into the VST object helpfile/spec – if
>> it’s possible, I might make Max Patch replicas of the VSTs I want
>> to use, so that I can get control over them without needing to
>> hook up a keyboard or mouse to the PC.
>>
>> Anyway, any thoughts on the idea would be much appreciated. I
>> expect this is going to be a tough undertaking, and I honestly
>> don’t expect it to particularly well even if I do get it working –
>> but I’d like to try.
> —————————————————-
>
>
> –
> SmadSteck – http://www.smadsteck.nl
> Hard- and software for interactive audiovisual sampling

#105753
Jun 4, 2007 at 4:44pm

I don’t have personal experience with this, but can JACK not be used across a network connection?

#105754
Jun 4, 2007 at 4:55pm

On OS X, it *used* to support this – it broke in later versions
though, and we’ve not had the time/resources to get it working again.

On Linux, it definitely is supported:

http://netjack.sourceforge.net/

Dan

At 12:44 PM -0400 6/4/07, Tim wrote:
>I don’t have personal experience with this, but can JACK not be used
>across a network connection?
>–
>Tim Thompson
>
>Assoc. Professor of Music
>Palm Beach Atlantic University


Dan Nigrin
Defective Records
202 Hack / PC-1600 User / VSTi Host / OMS Convert / Jack OS X / Major
Malfunction
http://www.defectiverecords.com

http://www.jackosx.com

#105755
Jun 4, 2007 at 6:06pm

Quote: Dan Nigrin wrote on Mon, 04 June 2007 12:55
—————————————————-
> On OS X, it *used* to support this – it broke in later versions
> though, and we’ve not had the time/resources to get it working again.
>

That’s too bad. I wonder if the latency would be less than with AUNetSend and AUNetReceive. I assume so…

Tim

#105756
Jun 4, 2007 at 6:07pm

I had toyed with the idea of using the AUNetXXXX units, but since I need it to be interacting with a PC, I doubt it would be very useful – I’d need to write PC interpreters for it (unless someone has already done it?), and as was mentioned, it seems latency is terrible.

It seems like the ‘best’ option, latency and ease-of-setup wise, is to do the audio connections via analog connections. There are issues with that, such as the fact that I’d need an input/output on each machine for each mono signal I needed – essentially only one VST plugin, unless I went out and bought another couple of ADA convertors. And, then there’s the fun of losing sound quality, and syncing everything.

Hmm… Though… I suppose it’d be possible to do it via one set of connections, and when I need to record each track, just solo the VST I’m recording.

While I don’t have an intel mac (yet), the other thing I’d like this patch to be able to do is communicate between Parallels Desktop and Cubase – Does anyone know how Soundflower/Audio Hijack Pro deals with Parallels? Specifically, the ‘transparent’ windows-application-launching, where parallels hides the windows desktop.

#105757
Jun 4, 2007 at 6:12pm

If the computers all have soundcards/interfaces with ADAT I/O, then that would be a good option–keep it digital. Or if you only need two channels both directions, you could use s/pdif connections between them. If you use the digital connections for computer to computer transfer, then the analog I/Os are available for getting signal in and out as needed.

Quote: MuShoo wrote on Mon, 04 June 2007 14:07
—————————————————-
> I had toyed with the idea of using the AUNetXXXX units, but since I need it to be interacting with a PC, I doubt it would be very useful – I’d need to write PC interpreters for it (unless someone has already done it?), and as was mentioned, it seems latency is terrible.
>
> It seems like the ‘best’ option, latency and ease-of-setup wise, is to do the audio connections via analog connections. There are issues with that, such as the fact that I’d need an input/output on each machine for each mono signal I needed – essentially only one VST plugin, unless I went out and bought another couple of ADA convertors. And, then there’s the fun of losing sound quality, and syncing everything.
>
> Hmm… Though… I suppose it’d be possible to do it via one set of connections, and when I need to record each track, just solo the VST I’m recording.
>
> While I don’t have an intel mac (yet), the other thing I’d like this patch to be able to do is communicate between Parallels Desktop and Cubase – Does anyone know how Soundflower/Audio Hijack Pro deals with Parallels? Specifically, the ‘transparent’ windows-application-launching, where parallels hides the windows desktop.
—————————————————-

#105758
Jun 4, 2007 at 6:29pm

Well, my G5 has the optical jack (And I do believe it’s a seperate jack, not built into the headphone port) – but the PC has a coaxial SP/DIF connection.

While outputting to the Optical port on the G5 would be pretty nice, since I don’t currently use it for anything, I’m not sure I like the cost of buying an optical->coaxial convertor. Are there any available for under 100 bucks, that do two way conversion?

Actually, never mind. My mBox has coaxial Spdif i/o – however the PC only has spdif output, not input.

#105759

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