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Hi all, what do you think of this device..

http://www.jomox.de/upload/manuals/Resonator%20Neuronium%20ManualEng.pdf

i'm about to try to build something similar in max..is there anyone else who did something like this?

neural-resonator-any-help

http://www.jayemsonic.de/resoneuroEngl.html

more here..
http://www.jayemsonic.de/resoneuroEngl.html


This is something I have been interested in for quite some

time. Using neural nets in Max that is...

A neural network is a network of weighting (learning)

functions that have a persistent weighted state. The weighting 

function determines what impulses will pass through. When you 

start out, your neural net is a blank slate. You have to feed

This article suggests you can train the neural net with audio 

feedback which is a very interesting concept. What is not clear 

is what the learning function would be used. If the function just

pass the value through, you are not really "learning" anything. 

I would be interested to know more about how different learning 

functions could be applied and how that would change the flow of 

data in the diagram (pic 9). His suggestion of using genetic 

algorithms is interesting, but not really "learning".

I think there are all sorts of interesting things you could 

explore with neural nets. As far as I know there are no Max 

externals out there that implement a neural net. Please let me

know if there is because that would save me a lot of time. 

If anybody knows of a good general purpose neural net library, 

This is something I have been interested in for quite some
time. Using neural nets in Max that is...

A neural network is a network of weighting (learning)
functions that have a persistent weighted state. The weighting 
function determines what impulses will pass through. When you 
start out, your neural net is a blank slate. You have to feed
it data in order to train it. 

This article suggests you can train the neural net with audio 
feedback which is a very interesting concept. What is not clear 
is what the learning function would be used. If the function just
pass the value through, you are not really "learning" anything. 
I would be interested to know more about how different learning 
functions could be applied and how that would change the flow of 
data in the diagram (pic 9). His suggestion of using genetic 
algorithms is interesting, but not really "learning".

I think there are all sorts of interesting things you could 
explore with neural nets. As far as I know there are no Max 
externals out there that implement a neural net. Please let me
know if there is because that would save me a lot of time. 
If anybody knows of a good general purpose neural net library, 
I would definitely port it.


I think CNMAT made an external, but I cant seem to find it right now. I remember having it and not knowing what the heck to do with it. Ive seen others as well, at least one other.

http://www.maxobjects.com/?PHPSESSID=d7068802cc3c611d8ee0ec937c1f3147&PHPSESSID=d7068802cc3c611d8ee0ec937c1f3147&request=neural&operateur=AND&id_plateforme=0&Submit=OK

heres my search on maxobjects.com looks like there's several. Id love to see a patch made with one that I could study.

I think CNMAT made an external, but I cant seem to find it right now.  I remember having it and not knowing what the heck to do with it.  Ive seen others as well, at least one other.

heres my search on maxobjects.com looks like there's several.  Id love to see a patch made with one that I could study.


> algorithms is interesting, but not really "learning".

GAs have been used with neural nets as ways of 'evolving' optimal 

network topologies for various problems, which, AFAIK, correlates with 

what we know about learning in the cognitive, embodied sense (that 

I didn't read the blurb fully yet, but didn't get much of a neural net 

flavour (in the sense of learning structures) so much as a Gordon 

Mumma's cybernetic console kind of vibe. All very interesting ...

Anthony Palomba wrote:
> His suggestion of using genetic 
> algorithms is interesting, but not really "learning".

GAs have been used with neural nets as ways of 'evolving' optimal 
network topologies for various problems, which, AFAIK, correlates with 
what we know about learning in the cognitive, embodied sense (that 
brains aren't fixed networks of nodes).

I didn't read the blurb fully yet, but didn't get much of a neural net 
flavour (in the sense of learning structures) so much as a Gordon 
Mumma's cybernetic console kind of vibe. All very interesting ...

i know a bunch of max objects-patches that deal with something similar but i've never been able getting something (to be honest i did not even understand some of these!)..

http://www.olliebown.com/main_blog/?page_id=8

http://www.neuromuse.org/downloads/index.html

Quote: Anthony Palomba wrote on Thu, 08 May 2008 18:40

----------------------------------------------------

> This is something I have been interested in for quite some

> time. Using neural nets in Max that is...

> A neural network is a network of weighting (learning)

> functions that have a persistent weighted state. The weighting 

> function determines what impulses will pass through. When you 

> start out, your neural net is a blank slate. You have to feed

> This article suggests you can train the neural net with audio 

> feedback which is a very interesting concept. What is not clear 

> is what the learning function would be used. If the function just

> pass the value through, you are not really "learning" anything. 

> I would be interested to know more about how different learning 

> functions could be applied and how that would change the flow of 

> data in the diagram (pic 9). His suggestion of using genetic 

> I think there are all sorts of interesting things you could 

> explore with neural nets. As far as I know there are no Max 

> externals out there that implement a neural net. Please let me

> know if there is because that would save me a lot of time. 

> If anybody knows of a good general purpose neural net library, 

hi Anthony,
i know a bunch of max objects-patches that deal with something similar but i've never been able getting something (to be honest i did not even understand some of these!)..

Quote: Anthony Palomba wrote on Thu, 08 May 2008 18:40
----------------------------------------------------
> This is something I have been interested in for quite some
> time. Using neural nets in Max that is...
>
> A neural network is a network of weighting (learning)
> functions that have a persistent weighted state. The weighting 
> function determines what impulses will pass through. When you 
> start out, your neural net is a blank slate. You have to feed
> it data in order to train it. 
>
> This article suggests you can train the neural net with audio 
> feedback which is a very interesting concept. What is not clear 
> is what the learning function would be used. If the function just
> pass the value through, you are not really "learning" anything. 
> I would be interested to know more about how different learning 
> functions could be applied and how that would change the flow of 
> data in the diagram (pic 9). His suggestion of using genetic 
> algorithms is interesting, but not really "learning".
>
> I think there are all sorts of interesting things you could 
> explore with neural nets. As far as I know there are no Max 
> externals out there that implement a neural net. Please let me
> know if there is because that would save me a lot of time. 
> If anybody knows of a good general purpose neural net library, 
> I would definitely port it.
>
>
----------------------------------------------------


hmmmm, very interesting. I will check it out.

Quote: Axiom-Crux wrote on Thu, 08 May 2008 09:52

> I think CNMAT made an external, but I cant seem to find it right now.

http://archive.cnmat.berkeley.edu/MAX/neural-net.html

Quote: Axiom-Crux wrote on Thu, 08 May 2008 09:52
----------------------------------------------------
> I think CNMAT made an external, but I cant seem to find it right now.  

... though I haven't had time to check it with Max 5 (I know there are some mxj issues as someone reported my mxj curve~ not working).

Works in Max 4.6.3 though, and I'll get round to it soon.

For info: This is about 4x slower than a C version by my calculations (the Java code was ported from some of my neural net C code using a similar algorithm).

...Oh, and there is a FANN (Fast Artificial Neural Network Library) implementation if you search maxobjects.com

Quote: martinrobinson wrote on Fri, 09 May 2008 11:56

> ...Oh, and there is a FANN (Fast Artificial Neural Network Library) implementation if you search maxobjects.com

yes you are right, there is also olivier pasquet fann objects, but as above i can't get anything interesting out of them maybe it's my fault!

Quote: martinrobinson wrote on Fri, 09 May 2008 11:56
----------------------------------------------------
> ...Oh, and there is a FANN (Fast Artificial Neural Network Library) implementation if you search maxobjects.com
----------------------------------------------------

The Hartmann Neuron was based on a traditional net:

http://www.hartmann-music.com/home/us/news/

If I recall correctly, the company went bust and the software is

On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 12:40 PM, Anthony Palomba wrote:

> functions that have a persistent weighted state. The weighting

> function determines what impulses will pass through. When you

> This article suggests you can train the neural net with audio

> feedback which is a very interesting concept. What is not clear

> pass the value through, you are not really "learning" anything.

> I would be interested to know more about how different learning

> functions could be applied and how that would change the flow of

> data in the diagram (pic 9). His suggestion of using genetic

> I think there are all sorts of interesting things you could

> explore with neural nets. As far as I know there are no Max

> know if there is because that would save me a lot of time.

> If anybody knows of a good general purpose neural net library,

The Hartmann Neuron was based on a traditional net:
http://www.hartmann-music.com/home/us/news/
If I recall correctly, the company went bust and the software is
open-source now.

On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 12:40 PM, Anthony Palomba  wrote:
>
>  This is something I have been interested in for quite some
>  time. Using neural nets in Max that is...
>
>  A neural network is a network of weighting (learning)
>  functions that have a persistent weighted state. The weighting
>  function determines what impulses will pass through. When you
>  start out, your neural net is a blank slate. You have to feed
>  it data in order to train it.
>
>  This article suggests you can train the neural net with audio
>  feedback which is a very interesting concept. What is not clear
>  is what the learning function would be used. If the function just
>  pass the value through, you are not really "learning" anything.
>  I would be interested to know more about how different learning
>  functions could be applied and how that would change the flow of
>  data in the diagram (pic 9). His suggestion of using genetic
>  algorithms is interesting, but not really "learning".
>
>  I think there are all sorts of interesting things you could
>  explore with neural nets. As far as I know there are no Max
>  externals out there that implement a neural net. Please let me
>  know if there is because that would save me a lot of time.
>  If anybody knows of a good general purpose neural net library,
>  I would definitely port it.
>
>
>
>
>

A google search did not turn up any links to an 

open source Hartmann Neuron project. Do you have 

A search of sourceforge did turn up a good number

http://sourceforge.net/search/?words=neuron&type_of_search=soft&pmode=0&words=neural&Search=Search

A google search did not turn up any links to an 
open source Hartmann Neuron project. Do you have 
any specific links?

A search of sourceforge did turn up a good number
of related projects...
http://sourceforge.net/search/?words=neuron&type_of_search=soft&pmode=0&words=neural&Search=Search

Hi Martin, thanks a lot for sharing your java obj..it seems really interensting and maybe this time i could fine my way through neaural-net..do you have any example patch, practical music implementation i can get inspiration/ideas from?..

Quote: martinrobinson wrote on Fri, 09 May 2008 11:53

> ... though I haven't had time to check it with Max 5 (I know there are some mxj issues as someone reported my mxj curve~ not working).

> Works in Max 4.6.3 though, and I'll get round to it soon.

> For info: This is about 4x slower than a C version by my calculations (the Java code was ported from some of my neural net C code using a similar algorithm).

Hi Martin, thanks a lot for sharing your java obj..it seems really interensting and maybe this time i could fine my way through neaural-net..do you have any example patch, practical music implementation i can get inspiration/ideas from?..
how do you use it?
all the best

Quote: martinrobinson wrote on Fri, 09 May 2008 11:53
----------------------------------------------------
> I have an mxj Java class at:
>
> http://miajo.co.uk/?MaxMSP:mxj_nnLists
>
> ... though I haven't had time to check it with Max 5 (I know there are some mxj issues as someone reported my mxj curve~ not working).
>
> Works in Max 4.6.3 though, and I'll get round to it soon.
>
> For info: This is about 4x slower than a C version by my calculations (the Java code was ported from some of my neural net C code using a similar algorithm).
----------------------------------------------------


Do anyone have an idea on how to implement Ashby Homeostat in Max ?

http://www.hrat.btinternet.co.uk/Homeostat.html

Page 15 = www.ecila.org/ecila_files/content/papers/ACEMScThesis.pdf

I tried some things... but nothing really working.

> Do anyone have an idea on how to implement Ashby Homeostat in Max ?

> I tried some things... but nothing really working.

Look at the multislider help file, there is an eeg like example...

Bertrand Fraysse schrieb:
> Do anyone have an idea on how to implement Ashby Homeostat in Max ?
>
> I tried some things... but nothing really working.

-- 
Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
--_____-----------|--------------
--(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
-- _|_)----|-----()--------------
----------()--------www.ccmix.com


neural resonator..any help?