chriswickett

This is my first post on here so I guess I'd better introduce myself.

I write for MusicRadar.com - a website for music-makers - and I've decided to learn Max/MSP and blog about learning it.

It seems to me that Max is perceived as an impenetrable program that only super-technically-minded people can learn. Having been shown just a bit of what Max can do, I was inspired to learn to use it (my personal aim is to make programs for live use - everything from weird effects to looping). So, I'm blogging about my experience of learning Max from scratch, aiming to find out (a) whether anyone, in fact, can learn to use the program, (b) how easy it is and (c) whether or not it's worth it (I'm already sure the answer is yes...). Ease-of-use and debugging were clearly on Cycling'74's mind when designing version 5, so I think now is a perfect time to do it.

I know it is a really involved piece of software and not everyone will be able to write patches straight away (if at all), I just think it gets a bad press for being too inaccessible from many music makers who would no doubt benefit from using it.

I'm not just posting a couple of spammy links then running off either (promise) - I want to get involved in the Max community as I'm 110% I'll need help sooner or later... probably sooner.

If anyone has any ideas, comments, can offer any help or spots any technical mistakes in what I've written (links below), then please let me know!

http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/maxmsp-diary-the-big-idea-171643

http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/maxmsp-diary-part-2-getting-started-172998

http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/maxmsp-diary-the-big-idea-171643
http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/maxmsp-diary-part-2-getting-started-172998

new-maxmsp-diary-blog

I read your first two posts and very much enjoyed your style of writing. I remember learning Max myself and it's certainly not an easy task. Years later and I'm still learning, especially from this forum.

Welcome aboard and don't hesitate to ask for help.

I enjoyed the first couple of blogs; you're quite a funny dude :-D. It took me my summer to learn MaxMSP, but genuinely feel comfortable with the program now, though I'm not nearly as capable as I intend to become. I'm looking forward to see how you progress.

A Max Wizard asking "What do you want to do?"

hahaha, 
A Max Wizard asking "What do you want to do?" 

Good luck, have fun, there is no return.


I've really started getting into the tutorials now and am finding myself stupidly addicted...

For my next blog I might post some links to internet resources for people learning Max. Anyone know of any decent ones other that Cycling74.com?

aside from the c74 forums, the following pages are also useful:

https://cycling74.com/twiki/bin/view/Share

http://www.maxobjects.com/
ftp://arts.ucsc.edu/pub/ems/maxtutors/
http://cnmat.berkeley.edu/downloads

https://cycling74.com/section/tutorials
https://cycling74.com/twiki/bin/view/Share

Keep it up, that's great. Interested to see how it progresses. Good style of writing, too, it gives a playful-yet-motivated feel, so that the readers remember that under all this, it's supposed to be fun and interesting... not always technical and challenging.

I think you'll be hooked very soon, if you're not already. The most amazing thing about this program, that I found, are the incredible number of variations you can do on the simplest stuff, as well as the many many possibilities you don't discover until months or years down the road. How many times have I said, "I didn't know it could DO that!" (usually followed by "Wish I'd known about that months ago!"). No other program comes close to this kind of discovery, I think, aside from actual coding.

Try to think really abstractly about creating music or video or whatever else using Max, since it's really really great at doing lots of things easily (which you may not have considered possible), but re-creating interfaces like GarageBand or Photoshop (which would be technically feasible) would take inordinate amounts of time, and be reinventing the wheel. You'll start to see what it's immediately and easily good at, like presets, gates and switches, real-time tweaking of things, using controllers, etc.

Find some simple processes (such as modulating a cycle~ by multiplying it with another one) and see how far you can take that basic idea using objects like pattr, mtr, line, etc., in this case attached to the frequency and volume of each element. The same goes for altering an image using jit.brcosa. Or changing the size of an OpenGL cube. Or.... anything you can control with numbers, which is... anything.

Enjoy your quest and we'll enjoy your blog!

Try to think really abstractly about creating music or video or whatever else using Max, since it's really really great at doing lots of things easily (which you may not have considered possible), but re-creating interfaces like GarageBand or Photoshop (which would be technically feasible) would take inordinate amounts of time, and be reinventing the wheel. You'll start to see what it's immediately and easily good at, like presets, gates and switches, real-time tweaking of things, using controllers, etc. 

fun stuff man good luck !! I am also a max aprentice , it a long but very rewarding road !!!!!

fun stuff man  good luck !! I am also a max aprentice , it a long but very rewarding road !!!!!


I would really like an rss feed link so I can keep up with this series

Fight the good fight, Max may seem impenetrable at first but it's not

*that* hard, and Max 5 makes it easier than ever.

I would really like an rss feed link so I can keep up with this series
with the least effort. ^_^

Fight the good fight, Max may seem impenetrable at first but it's not
*that* hard, and Max 5 makes it easier than ever.

-- 
http://www.myspace.com/anthonysaundershn


Thanks for all the positive words, it's reassuring to know there's a market for this sort of thing...

I've just posted part three of the blog if you're interested:

http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/maxmsp-diary-part-3-learning-the-basics-174207

And I'll try to sort out an RSS link, although it might take me a bit of time.

I think these blogs are a great area for everyone to get stuck into. The writing is great, clear and to the point.

I myself am also still a Max/MSP newbie, but have built a few music apps already. Mainly from messing with a Max patch, then taking it apart. My patches are extreme noise patches. Easy, but are addictive :)

But my Maxing is getting more now, that I have even now delved into the World of Jitter. Which is amazing, plus the tutorials seem easier to me.

Cheers Lewis. I'm looking forward to being good enough to share some of my own patches on the forum.

If anyone wants it, here's an RSS feed of the blogs:

http://mos.musicradar.com/podcasts/rss/max-msp-diary.xml

Quote: chriswickett wrote on Fri, 19 September 2008 08:20

----------------------------------------------------

> Cheers Lewis. I'm looking forward to being good enough to share some of my own patches on the forum.

> If anyone wants it, here's an RSS feed of the blogs:

Don't worry about being 'good enough', Chris. We could use more patches, even illustrative ones for basic to advanced questions, bug discoveries, or just to share.

Sometimes putting together a patch for those first two can go a long way toward solving the problem yourself or making an effective demonstration so the community can provide their comments or help more efficiently.

Quote: chriswickett wrote on Fri, 19 September 2008 08:20
----------------------------------------------------
> Cheers Lewis. I'm looking forward to being good enough to share some of my own patches on the forum.
>
> If anyone wants it, here's an RSS feed of the blogs:
>
> http://mos.musicradar.com/podcasts/rss/max-msp-diary.xml
>
> Chris
----------------------------------------------------

Don't worry about being 'good enough', Chris. We could use more patches, even illustrative ones for basic to advanced questions, bug discoveries, or just to share. 

Sometimes putting together a patch for those first two can go a long way toward solving the problem yourself or making an effective demonstration so the community can provide their comments or help more efficiently.


I second that---don't worry about how "good" or "simple" they are. Lots of times there are little parts or subroutines which are done in a different way than a given reader may be used to, which provides useful new information.

Some of the best learning I've had on here are with the little patches which are answering a simple question... something which I could have put together myself fairly readily, but someone does it in a new way, which makes me want to figure it out or check out some objects I'm not familiar with. These are all great additions to the knowledge base. If someone sees a patch and thinks "jeez, that's so simple" in a denigrating way, then they're not really being supportive, and that's their issue. After all, they don't have to read it or open it!

That said, the more you can noodle around with tutorials, help patches, the documentation, searching the forums, and experimenting on your own, then when you do have something you want to share or a bugger of a question you want help with, your input will be that much more helpful to everyone, since it starts at a higher level than something which could be answered easily through those methods. So there's a balance there. This community is very helpful and supportive though, so don't second-guess yourself too much with all this.

I second that---don't worry about how "good" or "simple" they are. Lots of times there are little parts or subroutines which are done in a different way than a given reader may be used to, which provides useful new information. 

Aye, the tutorials are extremely helpful.

But i do agree that it they do jump into the deep end quite quickly. But when looking at the patch further, an understanding takes place.

The forum here is the best place to learn Max, i think. Because it is not just the community max user, but the programmers themselves, so any hard question that are wrecking your brain. Someone, somewhere will be able to help. 

Except for myself, because i am not that skilled yet ;)

I am a bit jealous, because i was actually going to start my own blog for this such thing, even setup up a free blogger account. Carefully learning each and every patch then write about the experience. But now, i am writing about each and every object/message box, in a 'Complete Dummies' way. More to help myself, but once finished, will post that up. Outlines the most simplest description of each and every object/message and what it is used for

Subscribed to the RSS feed. So then i can tune into the next blog.

Aye, the tutorials are extremely helpful. 

The forum here is the best place to learn Max, i think. Because it is not just the community max user, but the programmers themselves, so any hard question that are wrecking your brain. Someone, somewhere will be able to help. 
Except for myself, because i am not that skilled yet ;)

I've got into some MSP for the first time this week and made a patch for myself. I'll post the patch along with the blog and some video tomorrow - I have a feeling it could be loads simpler though...

LewisGEdwards: look forward to reading your blog!

http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/maxmsp-diary-part-4-music-and-maths-175060

The latest blog entry is online now - it's got video, and a Max patch file too...

If anyone has any suggestions as to how to improve the patch then let me know!

Had a read of your blog and also looked at the video

Love it, really cool idea, and for a first 'proper' patch, i think it was great.

Don't worry, things may look odd and not 'shiny' looking, but that comes later in the tutorials.

You can even add things like stuttering or even panning and stuff like that. Square waves signatures, blah blah blah.

I just came across your blog on musicradar.com which has led me to this thread. I am very much a newbie w/ Max and have been hesitant to get started learning it. Your blog has been very inspiring and encouraging to learn and dive in to it. You have a very simple and down-to-earth writing style. keep up the good work. I have subscribed to your RSS Feed. I'm looking forward to more of your posts.

I just came across your blog on musicradar.com which has led me to this thread.  I am very much a newbie w/ Max and have been hesitant to get started learning it.  Your blog has been very inspiring and encouraging to learn and dive in to it.   You have a very simple and down-to-earth writing style.  keep up the good work.  I have subscribed to your RSS Feed.  I'm looking forward to more of your posts.

On Sep 26, 2008, at 9:34 AM, Chris Wickett wrote:

> If anyone has any suggestions as to how to improve the patch then 

I'm sure as you move forward, you'll find many ways to make things 

I couldn't resist pushing it around a little bit, though:

On Sep 26, 2008, at 9:34 AM, Chris Wickett wrote:
> If anyone has any suggestions as to how to improve the patch then  
> let me know!

I'm sure as you move forward, you'll find many ways to make things  
more spiffy.

Chris Muir
cbm@well.com	
http://www.xfade.com

Cheers Chris, how do I download the file?

On Sep 30, 2008, at 8:21 AM, Chris Wickett wrote:

> Cheers Chris, how do I download the file?

Select all the funny text, including the lines that read:

In Max, select "New From Clipboard" from the FIle menu.

Select all the funny text, including the lines that read:
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------

New Max/MSP diary blog