Forums > MaxMSP

nintendo wii controller?


jbm
December 7, 2006 | 2:51 pm

Has anyone got their hands on one of these yet? I’m really curious about whether it could be used with Max’s [hi] object as a controller. The potential musicality seems pretty immense…

J.


December 7, 2006 | 6:07 pm

I’ve been curious about this myself. Since the controller is wireless, it’s not like you can just buy a USB adapter and hook it up to your computer (which I’ve done successfully with the Xbox and PS2 controllers).

I believe the controller runs off of bluetooth, right? Maybe there’s some way to hijack the signal with a bluetooth enabled machine? Keep in mind that a lot of the information from the Wii controller comes from the infared sensor bar that you put on your tv, so you’ll need to find a way to incorporate that into your rig as well.

If you find anything out… please post here.

Thanks
/dan


December 7, 2006 | 8:23 pm

I see that people started to find ways of extracting necessary data from it.

The good thing is that it sends somee sort of acceleration data, so it will be a very flexible hid as far as mapping goes. And the acceleration reporting part of the controller is not tied to the wii itself so one will be able to use it without owning a wii I guess.

See this page:

http://wiihacks.blogspot.com/2006/12/wii-mote-application-for-osx.html


December 7, 2006 | 8:26 pm

After my first post I got curious and started looking around. It looks like people have been making progress.

>See this page:
>http://wiihacks.blogspot.com/2006/12/wii-mote-application-for-osx.html

In addition to that link… I actually saw this today on Slashdot of all places. If you’re on a Mac it could be an interesting little app:

http://blog.hiroaki.jp/2006/12/000433.html

/dan


December 7, 2006 | 8:31 pm

There was a driver released for Mac OS X the other day, which allows
it to be used as a mouse:

http://blog.hiroaki.jp/2006/12/000433.html

On Dec 7, 2006, at 9:51 AM, jbmaxwell wrote:

>
> Has anyone got their hands on one of these yet? I’m really curious
> about whether it could be used with Max’s [hi] object as a
> controller. The potential musicality seems pretty immense…
>
> J.

v a d e //

http://www.vade.info
abstrakt.vade.info



jbm
December 8, 2006 | 8:40 am

Brilliant! I’ll check these links out. We’ve got a shiny new wii unit coming in the next few days, so I’ll see what I can manage and report back.

cheers,

J.



jbm
December 8, 2006 | 8:55 am

hehe… these links are all to the same software. But he has downloadable source on the site (Obj-C), so if anyone feels like porting the essential bits to a max object, please post any successes. I’ll probably give it a try, but I haven’t done any external writing yet, so it could be a bit of a slooooow process.

J.



f.e
December 8, 2006 | 11:06 am

Nintendo Wii :
http://forevergeek.com/geek_resources/unofficial_windows_wiimote_drivers_released.php

http://cyber-knowledge.net/blog/2006/12/03/wiimote-drivers-for-linux/

exmaples :

http://createdigitalmusic.com/2006/12/07/midi-control-for-music-with-wii-remote-teaser/

There’s also a pre-wiimote, made a few years ago by joachim montessuis :
http://www.eternalnetwork.org/mush/index.html
And it works very well…

All that follows is killing with Max.

Nintendo DS :
Use touch screen & keys : http://ds2key.1emulation.com/
Wifi to midi :
http://createdigitalmusic.com/2006/11/26/dsmidiwifi-free-download-turn-your-nintendo-ds-into-a-wireless-synth-and-midi-controller/#more-1748

http://dsmidiwifi.tobw.net/

Sony PSP (FW 1.5 or 2.71SE-C, should work on 1.0, 2.5 & 2.6):

http://imk.cx/psp/wificontroller/

f.e


f.e chanfrault | aka | personal computer music
> >>>>>> http://www.personal-computer-music.com
> >>>>>> |sublime music for a desperate people|

jbmaxwell wrote:
> hehe… these links are all to the same software. But he has downloadable source on the site (Obj-C), so if anyone feels like porting the essential bits to a max object, please post any successes. I’ll probably give it a try, but I haven’t done any external writing yet, so it could be a bit of a slooooow process.
>
> J.
>
>


f.e chanfrault | aka | personal computer music
> >>>>>> http://www.personal-computer-music.com
> >>>>>> |sublime music for a desperate people|



jbm
December 8, 2006 | 12:31 pm

Thanks f.e.,

Great links. I want to use the wiimote for gestural control of a realtime composition app I’m working on. I’m on OS X. I looked over the DarwiinRemote page again, and it looks like most of the code is really just for the app itself, not for getting the raw data out of the wiimote. So it seems pretty promising that the wiimote will be usable with the hi object on OS X right out of the box. Possible?

J.



f.e
December 8, 2006 | 12:47 pm

Yes, for sure, the wiimote will work fine with hi, as the PSP (better
with Joystick external on win) & DS touch screen already do. It’ll take
some time, but not too much. The homebrew scene is incredibly dynamic,
despite the fact they’re treated as rogues by these stubborn companies
which are even unable to provide the magnific apps these hackers give
use. They’ll probably release a hacked lib soon. You’ll then be able to
do the bridge yourself (or a programmer of your friends).

If you want ‘underground’ links, i can send them you offlist.

But for what we need as musicians, createdigitalmusic.com is always the
place to start with your first coffee.

cheers

f.e

f.e chanfrault | aka | personal computer music
> >>>>>> http://www.personal-computer-music.com
> >>>>>> |sublime music for a desperate people|

jbmaxwell wrote:
> Thanks f.e.,
>
> Great links. I want to use the wiimote for gestural control of a realtime composition app I’m working on. I’m on OS X. I looked over the DarwiinRemote page again, and it looks like most of the code is really just for the app itself, not for getting the raw data out of the wiimote. So it seems pretty promising that the wiimote will be usable with the hi object on OS X right out of the box. Possible?
>
> J.
>
>


December 8, 2006 | 1:08 pm

some time agi i experimented with the witilt blue tooth enabled
accelerometer sparkfun sells. it has the same accell unit as the wii. fun
gadget…

http://www.sparkfun.com/cgi-bin/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2727&highlight=jitter+witilt

On 12/8/06, f.e

wrote:
>
> Yes, for sure, the wiimote will work fine with hi, as the PSP (better
> with Joystick external on win) & DS touch screen already do. It’ll take
> some time, but not too much. The homebrew scene is incredibly dynamic,
> despite the fact they’re treated as rogues by these stubborn companies
> which are even unable to provide the magnific apps these hackers give
> use. They’ll probably release a hacked lib soon. You’ll then be able to
> do the bridge yourself (or a programmer of your friends).
>
> If you want ‘underground’ links, i can send them you offlist.
>
> But for what we need as musicians, createdigitalmusic.com is always the
> place to start with your first coffee.
>
> cheers
>
> f.e
>
> f.e chanfrault | aka | personal computer music
> > >>>>>> http://www.personal-computer-music.com
> > >>>>>> |sublime music for a desperate people|
>
>
> jbmaxwell wrote:
> > Thanks f.e.,
> >
> > Great links. I want to use the wiimote for gestural control of a
> realtime composition app I’m working on. I’m on OS X. I looked over the
> DarwiinRemote page again, and it looks like most of the code is really just
> for the app itself, not for getting the raw data out of the wiimote. So it
> seems pretty promising that the wiimote will be usable with the hi object on
> OS X right out of the box. Possible?
> >
> > J.
> >
> >
>



jbm
December 8, 2006 | 1:17 pm

Cool.

You’ll notice my username just changed… I’ve been getting lots of spam lately, and realized that it was quite possibly the stupidest thing imaginable to have my actual email address as a username… ouch!

Anyway, I’m going to give it a shot when I get the box, of course. I poked around a bit on the WiTilt, and it looks like people are using the serial object, rather than hi. Would that be the way to go with the wiimote as well? I assume OS X will try to use its generic "IOBluetoothHIDDriver.kext" to run the wiimote on a first try, no? If so, wouldn’t it show up first through hi?

But I’ll stop bugging you until I have my hands on the actual wiimote. I’m sure all of this will come a lot clearer to me at that point!

cheers and thanks.

J.

ps — f.e., feel free to send me that info.


December 8, 2006 | 8:46 pm

CDM has some links up on the Wii remote. That thing rocks,
I can not wait to get that setup working on my machine.

Anthony

—– Original Message —–
From: jbmaxwell
Date: Friday, December 8, 2006 7:18 am
Subject: [maxmsp] Re: nintendo wii controller?

>
> Cool.
>
> You’ll notice my username just changed… I’ve been getting lots
> of spam lately, and realized that it was quite possibly the
> stupidest thing imaginable to have my actual email address as a
> username… ouch!
>
> Anyway, I’m going to give it a shot when I get the box, of course.
> I poked around a bit on the WiTilt, and it looks like people are
> using the serial object, rather than hi. Would that be the way to
> go with the wiimote as well? I assume OS X will try to use its
> generic "IOBluetoothHIDDriver.kext" to run the wiimote on a first
> try, no? If so, wouldn’t it show up first through hi?
>
> But I’ll stop bugging you until I have my hands on the actual
> wiimote. I’m sure all of this will come a lot clearer to me at
> that point!
>
> cheers and thanks.
>
> J.
>
> ps — f.e., feel free to send me that info.
>


December 8, 2006 | 9:30 pm

Hah. I was planning on using my DS as a video controller at some
point, but christ, I may have to get a wii :)

Maybe ill use both and be a total nintendo fanboy. The options are
quite nice. I’d actually use the DS if I could interface with max :)

On Dec 8, 2006, at 3:46 PM, apalomba@austin.rr.com wrote:

> CDM has some links up on the Wii remote. That thing rocks,
> I can not wait to get that setup working on my machine.
>
>
>
>
> Anthony
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: jbmaxwell
> Date: Friday, December 8, 2006 7:18 am
> Subject: [maxmsp] Re: nintendo wii controller?
>
>>
>> Cool.
>>
>> You’ll notice my username just changed… I’ve been getting lots
>> of spam lately, and realized that it was quite possibly the
>> stupidest thing imaginable to have my actual email address as a
>> username… ouch!
>>
>> Anyway, I’m going to give it a shot when I get the box, of course.
>> I poked around a bit on the WiTilt, and it looks like people are
>> using the serial object, rather than hi. Would that be the way to
>> go with the wiimote as well? I assume OS X will try to use its
>> generic "IOBluetoothHIDDriver.kext" to run the wiimote on a first
>> try, no? If so, wouldn’t it show up first through hi?
>>
>> But I’ll stop bugging you until I have my hands on the actual
>> wiimote. I’m sure all of this will come a lot clearer to me at
>> that point!
>>
>> cheers and thanks.
>>
>> J.
>>
>> ps — f.e., feel free to send me that info.
>>

v a d e //

http://www.vade.info
abstrakt.vade.info


December 9, 2006 | 5:33 am

I guess my ears were buzzing. Was curious to see who, if anyone, on the forum here had gotten on the Wii. So, CDM comes to you. :)

Anyway, here’s the scoop: the homebrew scene cracked this as fast as they did because the Wii maps as a Bluetooth HID Joystick-class device. And in fact, you can build your own Wii bits from Sparkfun!

I just picked up a Wiimote today, though, to try it out. It’s working really well. The one thing that’s nice about the pre-built unit as opposed to building your own is the number of buttons you get, the weight of the device, and the X/Y calibration of the sensors.

So far, it’s working like a charm in GlovePIE on Windows with the BlueSoleil Bluetooth software / dongle you can get from Sparkfun. (Highly recommend that route — there are a lot of sketchy BT devices out there, and this one is rock-solid.) GlovePIE can output to MIDI, so MIDI-Yoke it and you’re done (or map to a joystick input). The GlovePIE scripting is kind of nice, so worth a download.

Of course, I’d be even happier to get data straight into Max. And here’s the disappointing bit: the Wii shows up in the hi device list, but so far I haven’t been able to get it to poll the device for any data. Any idea what might be wrong? Does hi support Bluetooth joysticks directly, or should I try to map using GlovePIE and *then* deal with the data in Max, I wonder?


December 9, 2006 | 5:37 am

Oh, and ditto with the underground links. :)

Wiili seems to be completely dead. Anyone hear if they’ve found another host?

Nintendo is a little different from Sony in that they’re aware and even seem to accept some of the homebrew; they’ve sponsored and written about Game Boy musicians, even. I think they’re in a bit of a spot; I’m sure by the numbers most of the dollars spent on "development" tools go toward piracy. On the other hand, I’m hopeful that if enough of us keep evangelizing homebrew efforts in mainstream sources, Nintendo may eventually see it as important. I know some people in Nintendo PR, so I’ll … keep telling them that. ;)

A few individuals on the gaming side are getting more interested in music applications, too, so the Max/MSP – Nintendo convergence may continue.


December 9, 2006 | 6:04 am

Hey gang, here are the mirrors — you’ll need ‘em!

Unfortunately, DarwiinRemote is down, but this page at least is up:

http://homepage.mac.com/ianrickard/wiimote/

Wiili is here:

http://homepage.mac.com/ianrickard/wiimote/wiili_wimote.html#MacOS_X_Notes

I had been playing with accelerometer/bluetooth stuff from Sparkfun — like others — before the Wii was announced, and the problem with Mac is its rigid Bluetooth drivers, which stop you from pairing without entering a passkey, ostensibly for security reasons. (With our luck, Vista will probably do the same thing to Windows, since Vista’s device signing seems designed to protect people from actually using their computer — maybe not a bad idea.)

I just tried the DarwiinRemote above, and … well, it ain’t pretty. It looks from source and forum discussion like they’re reimplementing the whole HID protocol. And for now, it’s not terribly stable. (Even the performance of the app itself is not very good.) Porting it to Max would be a *bad* idea.

Once the pairing issue is sorted at the front end, there should be any number of ways to route audio into Max … perhaps a standalone app that sent out OSC data, ideally, because then you could use it with Max and any other number of things (even simultaneously).

Sounds like it’s time to draw up OSC standards for the Wii, as was done for the Wacom tablet. :)

Please, let me know if I’m missing anything.

And I’m very curious to hear if I’m misunderstanding how BT HID joysticks work in Max … I’ll try again tomorrow. ;)



f.e
December 9, 2006 | 9:39 am

A new one :

the new PS3 Sixaxis controller :

http://forums.ps2dev.org/viewtopic.php?t=7099

f.e

f.e chanfrault | aka | personal computer music
> >>>>>> http://www.personal-computer-music.com
> >>>>>> |sublime music for a desperate people|

Peter Kirn wrote:
> Hey gang, here are the mirrors — you’ll need ‘em!
>
> Unfortunately, DarwiinRemote is down, but this page at least is up:
> http://homepage.mac.com/ianrickard/wiimote/
>
> Wiili is here:
> http://homepage.mac.com/ianrickard/wiimote/wiili_wimote.html#MacOS_X_Notes
>
> I had been playing with accelerometer/bluetooth stuff from Sparkfun — like others — before the Wii was announced, and the problem with Mac is its rigid Bluetooth drivers, which stop you from pairing without entering a passkey, ostensibly for security reasons. (With our luck, Vista will probably do the same thing to Windows, since Vista’s device signing seems designed to protect people from actually using their computer — maybe not a bad idea.)
>
> I just tried the DarwiinRemote above, and … well, it ain’t pretty. It looks from source and forum discussion like they’re reimplementing the whole HID protocol. And for now, it’s not terribly stable. (Even the performance of the app itself is not very good.) Porting it to Max would be a *bad* idea.
>
> Once the pairing issue is sorted at the front end, there should be any number of ways to route audio into Max … perhaps a standalone app that sent out OSC data, ideally, because then you could use it with Max and any other number of things (even simultaneously).
>
> Sounds like it’s time to draw up OSC standards for the Wii, as was done for the Wacom tablet. :)
>
> Please, let me know if I’m missing anything.
>
> And I’m very curious to hear if I’m misunderstanding how BT HID joysticks work in Max … I’ll try again tomorrow. ;)
>
>



jbm
December 9, 2006 | 10:03 am

I actually have a PC running in my setup, so I suppose, at the worst, I could get the wiimote running under windows and send midi over to the Mac.
Peter, is there anything in PD that might extract the wiimote data properly? PD could certainly be used to send OSC data over to Max.

Also, with the DarwiinRemote thing, I wasn’t quite thinking of a "port", as such, but rather just extracting the essential information from his source, and re-writing a Max external using that info. Basically, letting the DarwiinRemote people do the homework and just re-coding it as an external.

Does that make any sense?

J.

[ EDIT ] ==============

Okay, I just checked out the wiili page, and it seems like all the basic data is there. So there’s probably not much point in using the DarwiinRemote stuff…


December 9, 2006 | 6:48 pm

So let me get this straight. If I am on the PC, all I need is
the Bluesoleil bluetooth stack and GlovePIE. Yes? That
will enable me to create MIDI data which I can route to
MIDI yoke. What do I need in order for MAX to see the
Wii remote in the hi object?

Also I think all the links you posted are now inactive.

Anthony

—– Original Message —–
From: "Peter Kirn"

To:
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 11:37 PM
Subject: [maxmsp] Re: Re: nintendo wii controller?

>
> Oh, and ditto with the underground links. :)
>
> Wiili seems to be completely dead. Anyone hear if they’ve found another
host?
>
> Nintendo is a little different from Sony in that they’re aware and even
seem to accept some of the homebrew; they’ve sponsored and written about
Game Boy musicians, even. I think they’re in a bit of a spot; I’m sure by
the numbers most of the dollars spent on "development" tools go toward
piracy. On the other hand, I’m hopeful that if enough of us keep
evangelizing homebrew efforts in mainstream sources, Nintendo may eventually
see it as important. I know some people in Nintendo PR, so I’ll … keep
telling them that. ;)
>
> A few individuals on the gaming side are getting more interested in music
applications, too, so the Max/MSP – Nintendo convergence may continue.


December 9, 2006 | 7:17 pm

The important mirror is this one, the overall Wiili FAQ:

http://homepage.mac.com/ianrickard/wiimote/wiili_wimote.html

… and it’s still up, for now, at least! (I think Apple has occasionally booted .Mac users for system usage, but maybe they’ll be merciful.)

Also, if anyone wants to take non-Max-related discussion of the Wii remote off this board, I set up a thread here:

http://createdigitalnoise.com/viewtopic.php?p=3455

But yes, it’s the hi object in Max in which I’m most interested. As I said, I’ve gotten it to show up in the HID device list, but can’t seem to poll it as I have other devices. I’ll keep trying.

Certainly in the meantime, yes, on Windows all you need is:

1. BlueSoleil or any other Bluetooth software that will pair with a device without requiring a passcode on the receiving device, and that supports the correct service (HID).

2. GlovePIE (which is handy to use with Max with a lot of devices!)

3. MIDI-Yoke to route MIDI to Max (or possibly just remap to a joystick hi can poll correctly — I’ll try that, too!)

On Windows, everyone is developing in Delphi for some reason — surprising to me that .NET doesn’t let you talk to Bluetooth HIDs.

On the Mac, yeah, I suppose you could take a look at the source that’s pulling data. What’s involved in writing an external for talking to hardware?

What’s the receiver like for the PS3 controller? I’ve gotten PS2-style controllers working with hi in Max, using a USB-PSX adapter (but now the PS3 uses USB, right?)

I’ll try to get some MIDI and joystick scripts down for GlovePIE, at the very least, since that’s an easy and very reliable solution.

I’m also interested to see what it’s like polling Bluetooth devices with Processing, though again, I’m assuming you need to set up a pairing relationship first, so Processing + Max may not really help that much (aside from possibly replacing GlovePIE, once the device is paired on PC).

Oh, and Pd … I seem to remember some sort of generic serial device object that can be used with Bluetooth … not as good with Pd, though, and I think Max and Pd are roughly even in this area.


December 9, 2006 | 9:12 pm

i wouldn’t go for the accelerator alone, that is only the sensor. i am sure
the wii has some added hi grade logic to smooth, chop and efficiently send
the sensor data. a comparison is needed
it would be nice if somebody send a screengrab of a multislider connected
to the axes.

On 12/9/06, Peter Kirn

wrote:
>
>
> The important mirror is this one, the overall Wiili FAQ:
> http://homepage.mac.com/ianrickard/wiimote/wiili_wimote.html
>
> … and it’s still up, for now, at least! (I think Apple has occasionally
> booted .Mac users for system usage, but maybe they’ll be merciful.)
>
> Also, if anyone wants to take non-Max-related discussion of the Wii remote
> off this board, I set up a thread here:
> http://createdigitalnoise.com/viewtopic.php?p=3455
>
> But yes, it’s the hi object in Max in which I’m most interested. As I
> said, I’ve gotten it to show up in the HID device list, but can’t seem to
> poll it as I have other devices. I’ll keep trying.
>
> Certainly in the meantime, yes, on Windows all you need is:
>
> 1. BlueSoleil or any other Bluetooth software that will pair with a device
> without requiring a passcode on the receiving device, and that supports the
> correct service (HID).
>
> 2. GlovePIE (which is handy to use with Max with a lot of devices!)
>
> 3. MIDI-Yoke to route MIDI to Max (or possibly just remap to a joystick hi
> can poll correctly — I’ll try that, too!)
>
> On Windows, everyone is developing in Delphi for some reason — surprising
> to me that .NET doesn’t let you talk to Bluetooth HIDs.
>
> On the Mac, yeah, I suppose you could take a look at the source that’s
> pulling data. What’s involved in writing an external for talking to
> hardware?
>
> What’s the receiver like for the PS3 controller? I’ve gotten PS2-style
> controllers working with hi in Max, using a USB-PSX adapter (but now the PS3
> uses USB, right?)
>
> I’ll try to get some MIDI and joystick scripts down for GlovePIE, at the
> very least, since that’s an easy and very reliable solution.
>
> I’m also interested to see what it’s like polling Bluetooth devices with
> Processing, though again, I’m assuming you need to set up a pairing
> relationship first, so Processing + Max may not really help that much (aside
> from possibly replacing GlovePIE, once the device is paired on PC).
>
> Oh, and Pd … I seem to remember some sort of generic serial device
> object that can be used with Bluetooth … not as good with Pd, though, and
> I think Max and Pd are roughly even in this area.
>



f.e
December 14, 2006 | 8:05 am

Update for the Wiimote :

http://carl.kenner.googlepages.com/glovepie

f.e

f.e chanfrault | aka | personal computer music
> >>>>>> http://www.personal-computer-music.com
> >>>>>> |sublime music for a desperate people|

f.e wrote:
> A new one :
>
> the new PS3 Sixaxis controller :
> http://forums.ps2dev.org/viewtopic.php?t=7099
>
> f.e
>
> f.e chanfrault | aka | personal computer music
>> >>>>>> http://www.personal-computer-music.com
>> >>>>>> |sublime music for a desperate people|
>
>
> Peter Kirn wrote:
>> Hey gang, here are the mirrors — you’ll need ‘em!
>>
>> Unfortunately, DarwiinRemote is down, but this page at least is up:
>> http://homepage.mac.com/ianrickard/wiimote/
>>
>> Wiili is here:
>> http://homepage.mac.com/ianrickard/wiimote/wiili_wimote.html#MacOS_X_Notes
>>
>>
>> I had been playing with accelerometer/bluetooth stuff from Sparkfun
>> — like others — before the Wii was announced, and the problem with
>> Mac is its rigid Bluetooth drivers, which stop you from pairing
>> without entering a passkey, ostensibly for security reasons. (With
>> our luck, Vista will probably do the same thing to Windows, since
>> Vista’s device signing seems designed to protect people from actually
>> using their computer — maybe not a bad idea.)
>>
>> I just tried the DarwiinRemote above, and … well, it ain’t pretty.
>> It looks from source and forum discussion like they’re reimplementing
>> the whole HID protocol. And for now, it’s not terribly stable. (Even
>> the performance of the app itself is not very good.) Porting it to
>> Max would be a *bad* idea.
>>
>> Once the pairing issue is sorted at the front end, there should be
>> any number of ways to route audio into Max … perhaps a standalone
>> app that sent out OSC data, ideally, because then you could use it
>> with Max and any other number of things (even simultaneously).
>> Sounds like it’s time to draw up OSC standards for the Wii, as was
>> done for the Wacom tablet. :)
>>
>> Please, let me know if I’m missing anything.
>>
>> And I’m very curious to hear if I’m misunderstanding how BT HID
>> joysticks work in Max … I’ll try again tomorrow. ;)
>>
>>
>


December 15, 2006 | 3:01 am

Just in case people missed it the first time it was announced:

http://www.cycling74.com/forums/index.php?t=msg&goto=88010&rid=0

aka.wiiremote by Masayuki Akamatsu, for those on OSX. It’s based on DarwiinRemote.

http://www.iamas.ac.jp/~aka/max/


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