Novice Help!! Transformation of resonance from one material to the other

May 19, 2006 at 2:50pm

Novice Help!! Transformation of resonance from one material to the other

Hi everyone

I’m a complete novice in sound, however, i want to create an acoustic tunnel which could produce the resonance and even feel the vibration of the sea. Physically, the concept is to let the sea hit the strings (various thickness and length) which connects to the tunnel in order to let the strings vibrate at the same frequencies of the sea.(the strings will act as a natural sea singer) Because the string and sea vibrates at different natural frequencies, therefore, presumablly the sound one will hear in the tunnel will be the resonance of the string vibrates at the frenquecies of the sea. The question is how to transform the frequencies of the sea to strings digitally? (i have recorded the sound of the sea)
does anyone have any hint on that? will Max/MSP do the job for me, if so, please give some brief hints.
thanks in advance!

Linjie

#26061
May 19, 2006 at 3:23pm

#77423
May 19, 2006 at 3:38pm

thanks Jean-francois for the quick response!

Like you said it would be great to test on site, however, the reality wouldn’t allow me to, not only the cost, but the time issue. That’s why I am seeking a way could reproduce and test the result digitally before anything serious would happen.
Could you please give me some hints on how this could be relized in Max/MSP? would be greatly appreicated!

linjie

#77424
May 20, 2006 at 5:11pm

#77425
May 21, 2006 at 8:02am

> I’m a complete novice in sound
> however
> i want to create an acoustic tunnel
> which could produce the resonance
> and even feel the vibration
> of the sea.

> Physically,
> the concept is to let the sea hit the strings
> (various thickness and length)
> which connects to the tunnel
> in order to let the strings vibrate
> at the same frequencies of the sea.
> (the strings will act as a natural sea singer)

> Because the string and sea vibrates
> at different natural frequencies,
> therefore, presumablly the sound
> one will hear in the tunnel
> will be the resonance of the string
> vibrates at the frenquecies of the sea.

> The question is how to transform
> the frequencies of the sea to strings digitally?
> (i have recorded the sound of the sea)

> does anyone have any hint on that?

thats poetic.

-110

#77426
May 21, 2006 at 1:47pm

To transfer vibration from recorded sound to something which isn’t a speaker, you need to look around a bit. One thing which comes to mind for me is an installation I saw in Hamburg, where the artist was vibrating large sheets of metal with cheap but perfectly suited speakers which are intended for use in “tuned” cars; they vibrate the chassis instead of producing audible tones, and made his sheets into large speaker-membranes. He did it all pretty simply, having spent most of his time on the metal work and almost none on musical experimentation. With Max, you could pitch the original recording up and down, use various frequency filters and the like to get your tunnel to respond in a way you want to.

A tip: vibrating strings don’t make much noise, no matter how you strum them. They need a resonating piece of wood, metal, plastic or whatever to move enough air to be heard. Your design will have to incorporate a structure loosely related to a guitar (including electrical…) to get any sound going. The “pump up the bass” speakers I mentioned above will function like an electric bow, and the instrument you are constructing will need all the elements of a conventional instrument to work.

Another, even cheaper variation is to take a normal speaker, remove the membrane and place the piston directly on the string. Try it with a guitar or an acoustic bass first to see if it works.

Have fun

#77427
May 21, 2006 at 2:56pm

Thanks Dayton for the hints
when you speak of a resonating piece, do you mean a sounding board, like the one of acoustic guitars? my concept is to construct the tunnel into a sounding board alike (like a open ended air column) which amplify and reverberate the vibrating air. please correct me if it is wrong as i’m really not an sound expert like you guys in the forum.
Also when you are saying to use the frequency filters, does that mean MAX could only capable of manipulate and tweek the input sound ranther than simulate an anticipated sound?
the last question is if its possible to virtually model the tunnel space and tuning the response frequencies of the vibrating strings in MAX/MSP or any other programs?
thanks again!

linjie

#77428
May 22, 2006 at 6:04pm

Yes, I mean like a guitar. All guitars and their cousins, violins, erhus and the like transfer the string vibrations to a soundboard. This in itself isn’t enough; there needs to be a resonance chamber as well, with an escape for the air which is quite a bit smaller than the chamber. The loudest tunnel-construction I could imagine would have several of these resonance chambers in a sort of double-walled scheme, although it would certainly be enough to make something akin to tin-can telephones with the resonating strings attatched to the end of the can. I don’t have experience with really large soundboards, but I assume that if you fit thin panels on the walls, about the size of normal windows, they should do the trick, with the strings on the outside in string-bass fashion. (remember the resonance-chamber; just putting a single panel will not create nearly as much sound as a rectangular box of sufficient volume. The “f-holes” can be on the stiff side of the box; they need not be in the soundboard.)

Max is an ideal setting to emulate the final acoustic result, but I am not aware of an available max-patch which can help you. This would require that someone would have made meticulous measurements of similar constructions, spent quite a bit of time trying to emulate them and programmed the results into a useable patch, which I doubt very much. In fact, it would be easier to buy or build a cajon or similar box, string a cord on it and start experimenting. The use that I can imagine for Max is more along the lines of fine-tuning the recordings you have to get the optimal results from the tunnel (or box) you are constructing.

I wish I had more time for doing this kind of work; it opens up many new directions of thought for me. Unfortunately, daily survival dictates certain necessary actions on my part, so a few moments of contemplation are all that I can spare for sound-installations which require large, non-resusable constructions. My work involves physical modules (speakers, amps, computers, controllers, etc.) which I can use again and again in various situations. The artist I wrote about last does a mixture of both, creating reuseable and one-time installations. His name is Ferdinand Forsch (http://www.biz-art.com/index.php?id=282) and does interesting things, but I wonder how he manages to fund it all.

Hope this helps.

#77429
May 24, 2006 at 10:45pm

Hi, Dayton

I am going to construct a working model to test the sound, the basic idea is to construct a tube (with double walls like you suggested) with an inclination to the ‘sea’(water tank). Six vibrating strings with 3 thickness and different lengths tensioned through the tube to capture the varied frequencies of the waves. I have attached an working diagram to demostrate the construction. please give comment! And particularly, the material of the tube, i am also thinking about metal if they would work more efficiently, however, transparency would give a great level of visibility to analysis the vibrations of the cords.

thanks again! looking forward to your comment!

Linjie

I guess its not allowed to attach files as it doesnt seems to work. Is that possible to send me your email? mine: linjiewang129@gmail.com

cheers!

#77430
May 25, 2006 at 12:32am

If you are in the San Francisco area, there is a place on the beach known as the Sutro Baths which has a long (70+ ft. long and maybe 10 ft. high) man made tunnel in the side of one of the cliff walls next to the ocean. could be of help?

#77431
May 25, 2006 at 10:46am

Thanks cw! unfortunately, i’m in the UK ;-(

#77432

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