Cycling 74 » Topic: OHM-Force-like knobs???

OHM-Force-like knobs???

Kasper — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 08:45:53 +0000

some plug-ins, most notably those made by OHM-Force, have a
“dual-action” system on their (virtual) knobs – not sliders but round
“pots”:

_the normal, up/down, action inc/decrements them in their normal
range (and this seems to be what i can control by sending a 0.-1.
value from max to the given parameter)
_but the “side” action (left-right) fine tunes teh value – makes very
small changes “around” the given value

how could I build such a knob in max??? It’s not about controlling
the plug-in but building a similar function in max, for example:

_the vertical action on a knob (dial) gives me 0.-1. values (or 0 –
1000 as dial does not accept floats)
_horizontal action would “scale” a different pixel/movement ratio,
for fine tuning

pictctrl allows to choose vertical and/or horizontal tracking, but
the “pixel/movement ratio” is the same (when choosing both options,
either movement produces teh same result.

__I am still on max4.6, but if this is possible in max5 it could be a
good reason to change!

many thanks

kasper
–
Kasper T. Toeplitz
noise, composition, bass, computer

http://www.sleazeArt.com

http://www.myspace.com/sleazeart

Re: OHM-Force-like knobs???

f.e — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 11:08:50 +0000

Re: OHM-Force-like knobs???

Stefan Tiedje — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 21:58:59 +0000

Kasper T Toeplitz schrieb:
> __I am still on max4.6, but if this is possible in max5 it could be a
> good reason to change!

This should be possible with a JSUI in Max 4 or 5…

Stefan

–
Stefan Tiedje————x——-
–_____———–|————–
–(_|_ —-|—–|—–()——-
– _|_)—-|—–()————–
———-()——–www.ccmix.com

Re: OHM-Force-like knobs???

sethares@ece.wisc.edu — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 22:36:28 +0000

It seems like what you are really looking for is two buttons — one that reacts quickly in response to vertical motion and one that responds slowly to horizontal motion. Looked at from this point of view, you could probably design what appears to be a single dial (but is actually two) by superimposing them on each other using appropriate transparency.

Bill Sethares

Re: OHM-Force-like knobs???

Kasper — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 11:13:19 +0000

>Kasper T Toeplitz schrieb:
>>__I am still on max4.6, but if this is possible in max5 it could be
>>a good reason to change!
>
>This should be possible with a JSUI in Max 4 or 5…
>

yeahhhhh

which means java script….. which i don’t know. (but of course
summer should be a excellent time to learn it….. and learn Super
collider, and CSound as well. and work my cello technique as well !!
;-))

thanks!

kasper
–
Kasper T. Toeplitz
noise, composition, bass, computer

http://www.sleazeArt.com

http://www.myspace.com/sleazeart

Re: OHM-Force-like knobs???

Kasper — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 11:18:39 +0000

>It seems like what you are really looking for is two buttons — one
>that reacts quickly in response to vertical motion and one that
>responds slowly to horizontal motion. Looked at from this point of
>view, you could probably design what appears to be a single dial
>(but is actually two) by superimposing them on each other using
>appropriate transparency.
>

well, using 2 is a possibility, of course (and that is more or less
what i do sometimes, using 2 controllers)
don’t know (yet) how it would look when superimposing 2 dials.

Actually the OHMForce interface is great, most probably one of the
very few (if not the only one) plug-ins interface that i like to use
- they have a lot of “tricks” which are really great (such as
“thrown” sliders, in oddity etc etc)

i will try to get into Jsui………………

best

kasper
–
Kasper T. Toeplitz
noise, composition, bass, computer

http://www.sleazeArt.com

http://www.myspace.com/sleazeart

Re: OHM-Force-like knobs???

roger.carruthers — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 11:40:53 +0000

Isn’t there something you could do with mousestate ? It will give you the
axis of movement which you could use to control the data flow from the dial.
Cheers
Roger

On 05/07/2008 12:18, “Kasper T Toeplitz” wrote:

>> It seems like what you are really looking for is two buttons — one
>> that reacts quickly in response to vertical motion and one that
>> responds slowly to horizontal motion. Looked at from this point of
>> view, you could probably design what appears to be a single dial
>> (but is actually two) by superimposing them on each other using
>> appropriate transparency.
>>
>
>
> well, using 2 is a possibility, of course (and that is more or less
> what i do sometimes, using 2 controllers)
> don’t know (yet) how it would look when superimposing 2 dials.
>
> Actually the OHMForce interface is great, most probably one of the
> very few (if not the only one) plug-ins interface that i like to use
> – they have a lot of “tricks” which are really great (such as
> “thrown” sliders, in oddity etc etc)
>
> i will try to get into Jsui………………
>
> best
>
> kasper

Re: OHM-Force-like knobs???

Kasper — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 11:47:16 +0000

>Isn’t there something you could do with mousestate ? It will give you the
>axis of movement which you could use to control the data flow from the dial.

!!!!!!!!

good idea!!

thanks

kasper
–
Kasper T. Toeplitz
noise, composition, bass, computer

http://www.sleazeArt.com

http://www.myspace.com/sleazeart

Re: OHM-Force-like knobs???

Jabbo — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 11:47:48 +0000

something like this?

max v2;
#N vpatcher 10 59 610 459;
#P user dial 115 87 36 36 128 1 0 0 169 270 4 1. 140 140 140 221 221
221 120 120 120 225 225 225 0 0 0 0 0 0;
#P user dial 90 62 87 87 128 1 0 0 169 270 2 1. 247 247 247 221 221
221 120 120 120 225 225 225 0 0 0 0 0 0;
#P user panel 94 66 78 78;
#X brgb 83 83 83;
#X frgb 0 0 0;
#X border 1;
#X rounded 16;
#X shadow 0;
#X done;
#P pop;

On Jul 5, 2008, at 1:18 PM, Kasper T Toeplitz wrote:

>> It seems like what you are really looking for is two buttons —
>> one that reacts quickly in response to vertical motion and one
>> that responds slowly to horizontal motion. Looked at from this
>> point of view, you could probably design what appears to be a
>> single dial (but is actually two) by superimposing them on each
>> other using appropriate transparency.
>>
>
>
> well, using 2 is a possibility, of course (and that is more or less
> what i do sometimes, using 2 controllers)
> don’t know (yet) how it would look when superimposing 2 dials.
>
> Actually the OHMForce interface is great, most probably one of the
> very few (if not the only one) plug-ins interface that i like to
> use – they have a lot of “tricks” which are really great (such as
> “thrown” sliders, in oddity etc etc)
>
> i will try to get into Jsui………………
>
> best
>
> kasper
> —
> Kasper T. Toeplitz
> noise, composition, bass, computer
> http://www.sleazeArt.com
>
> http://www.myspace.com/sleazeart
>

Re: OHM-Force-like knobs???

sethares@ece.wisc.edu — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:39:30 +0000

Jabbo’s patch gives two seperate dials — you can also suppress the appearence of one totally. Here’s a variation that appears to be one dial: if you click/drag on the outside ring, you get integer movements, but if click/drag on the inside ring, you get 0.01 movements… of course, it is actually implemented as two dials with one competely invisible.

– Bill Sethares

– Pasted Max Patch, click to expand. –

Re: OHM-Force-like knobs???

Jabbo — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 17:50:41 +0000

I need to get Number 5 (any one remembers the funny robot???)
starts to feel lonely in 4…

hihihi
On Jul 5, 2008, at 6:39 PM, Bill Sethares wrote:

>
> Jabbo’s patch gives two seperate dials — you can also suppress the
> appearence of one totally. Here’s a variation that appears to be
> one dial: if you click/drag on the outside ring, you get integer
> movements, but if click/drag on the inside ring, you get 0.01
> movements… of course, it is actually implemented as two dials
> with one competely invisible.
>
> — Bill Sethares
>
>

– Pasted Max Patch, click to expand. –

Re: OHM-Force-like knobs???

Kasper — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 11:06:56 +0000

>Jabbo’s patch gives two seperate dials — you can also suppress the
>appearence of one totally. Here’s a variation that appears to be one
>dial: if you click/drag on the outside ring, you get integer
>movements, but if click/drag on the inside ring, you get 0.01
>movements… of course, it is actually implemented as two dials with
>one competely invisible.
>

many thanks

I can not read your patch (I use max 4.X, not 5) but your
explaination is pretty clear – in both cases it means having TWO
different areas to clik/drag. In which case, in my opinion, why not
just use 2 dials/sliders or whatever (numboxes, even) – anyhow, in
order to change the “resolution” you have to release the
mouse/trackpad, and clik in another area – the beauty of the
OHMforce graphics is that you can, with the same movement (the same
klik) change from rough values to fine tune them and back – allows
some very fluid and interesting moves (just by changing the direction
of the mouse – vertical/horizontal.) If you are interested in it,
just check their great freeware filter FrOHMage (mac & win).

In any case many thanks for your help – but I will try to have a look
at mousestate, or maybe some modifier key (option?) – or maybe java
script.

all the best

kasper
–
Kasper T. Toeplitz
noise, composition, bass, computer

http://www.sleazeArt.com

http://www.myspace.com/sleazeart

Re: OHM-Force-like knobs???

nesa — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 12:18:02 +0000

How about using pictslider under a dial? That way you can have
separate x&y outputs mapped to different increments for each axis.
Below’s one example patch, but it needs more tweaking to be intuitive
(for example, bigger ‘dead zone’ around center for y axis).

best,
nesa

#P window setfont “Sans Serif” 9.;
#P window linecount 1;
#N vpatcher 20 74 240 320;
#P window setfont “Sans Serif” 9.;
#P window linecount 1;
#P newex 50 156 62 196617 prepend set;
#P newex 50 88 62 196617 clip 0. 100.;
#P newex 50 59 94 196617 accum 0.;
#P inlet 50 30 15 0;
#P inlet 92 30 15 0;
#P outlet 70 128 15 0;
#P fasten 5 0 3 0 55 178 37 178 37 47 55 47;
#P connect 2 0 3 0;
#P connect 3 0 4 0;
#P connect 4 0 5 0;
#P connect 4 0 0 0;
#P connect 1 0 3 1;
#P pop;
#P newobj 44 185 46 196617 p accum;
#P comment 92 67 100 196617 on top of pictslider;
#N vpatcher 20 74 436 333;
#P window setfont “Sans Serif” 9.;
#P window linecount 1;
#P comment 278 79 64 196617 y sensitivity;
#P flonum 276 95 35 9 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P flonum 87 100 35 9 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P newex 51 162 29 196617 t b f;
#P newex 259 118 27 196617 / 1.;
#P newex 237 51 32 196617 sel 0;
#P newex 51 123 46 196617 / 1000.;
#P newex 29 51 32 196617 sel 0;
#P inlet 29 31 15 0;
#P inlet 237 31 15 0;
#P outlet 51 195 15 0;
#P outlet 70 195 15 0;
#P window linecount 0;
#P comment 88 83 64 196617 x sensitivity;
#P comment 106 54 100 196617 zero = no movement;
#P connect 5 0 6 0;
#P connect 6 1 7 0;
#P fasten 6 0 10 0 34 156 56 156;
#P connect 7 0 10 0;
#P connect 10 0 3 0;
#P fasten 9 0 2 0 264 187 75 187;
#P connect 10 1 2 0;
#P connect 11 0 7 1;
#P connect 4 0 8 0;
#P connect 8 1 9 0;
#P connect 12 0 9 1;
#P pop;
#P newobj 44 157 80 196617 p pictslider2inc;
#P user dial 44 43 40 40 100 1 0 0 159 270 1 1. 170 170 170 221 221
221 120 120 120 225 225 225 0 0 0 0 0 0;
#P noclick;
#P flonum 60 215 77 9 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P user pictslider 44 43 40 40 4 4 4 4 SliderDefaultKnob.pct 1
SliderDefaultBkgnd.pct 1 3443 0 131071 -65535 1. 1.;
#P comment 92 54 100 196617 ‘ignore click’ dial;
#P fasten 6 0 3 0 49 246 26 246 26 35 49 35;
#P connect 6 0 2 0;
#P connect 4 0 6 0;
#P connect 4 1 6 1;
#P connect 1 0 4 0;
#P connect 1 1 4 1;
#P window clipboard copycount 7;

Re: OHM-Force-like knobs???

steffensen — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 13:23:49 +0000

What a great tip nesa, thanks for that one!

Re: OHM-Force-like knobs???

Stefan Tiedje — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 09:44:14 +0000

nesa schrieb:
> How about using pictslider under a dial? That way you can have separate
> x&y outputs mapped to different increments for each axis.
> Below’s one example patch, but it needs more tweaking to be intuitive
> (for example, bigger ‘dead zone’ around center for y axis).

Modified the idea a bit, without that accumulation effect…

– Pasted Max Patch, click to expand. –

–
Stefan Tiedje————x——-
–_____———–|————–
–(_|_ —-|—–|—–()——-
– _|_)—-|—–()————–
———-()——–www.ccmix.com

Re: OHM-Force-like knobs???

Kasper — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 10:48:21 +0000

>nesa schrieb:
>>How about using pictslider under a dial? That way you can have
>>separate x&y outputs mapped to different increments for each axis.
>>Below’s one example patch, but it needs more tweaking to be
>>intuitive (for example, bigger ‘dead zone’ around center for y
>>axis).
>
>Modified the idea a bit, without that accumulation effect…

is it possible to send it in max 4??

(or just a capture of the screen – since max (5) became
human-readable, and then compressed, if you did not pay the upgrade,
you can not see the answer to your own question ! at least with the
old system you could have an idea of the used objects…….
as said in my original question, ” __I am still on max4.6, but if
this is possible in [only] max5 it could be a good reason to change!”)

many thanks

kasper

as i belive that for the moment the number of people on this list
using ONLY max 5 is not that important, would it be possible to send
(simple) examples/patches in max4 format?? max 4 opens in 5 (I think)
when max 5 does not open in 4 (yes,I read that F Olofsson just did
some magic in Super Collider which permits that…)

thanks
k

–
Kasper T. Toeplitz
noise, composition, bass, computer

http://www.sleazeArt.com

http://www.myspace.com/sleazeart

Re: OHM-Force-like knobs???

Stefan Tiedje — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 17:05:19 +0000

Kasper T Toeplitz schrieb:
> is it possible to send it in max 4??

#P window setfont “Sans Serif” 9.;
#P window linecount 1;
#P comment 92 67 100 196617 on top of pictslider;
#N vpatcher 367 271 783 530;
#P window setfont “Sans Serif” 9.;
#P window linecount 1;
#P newex 29 126 97 196617 prepend set;
#P newex 29 100 97 196617 + 0.;
#P newex 97 63 29 196617 t b f;
#P window linecount 2;
#P newex 29 51 60 196617 scale 0 128 0. 1.;
#P inlet 29 31 15 0;
#P inlet 97 31 15 0;
#P outlet 29 175 15 0;
#P connect 2 0 3 0;
#P connect 3 0 5 0;
#P connect 4 0 5 0;
#P connect 5 0 6 0;
#P connect 6 0 0 0;
#P connect 1 0 4 0;
#P connect 4 1 5 1;
#P pop;
#P newobj 44 102 40 196617 p;
#P user dial 44 43 40 40 100 1 0 0 159 270 1 1. 170 170 170 221 221 221
120 120 120 225 225 225 0 0 0 0 0 0;
#P noclick;
#P flonum 44 145 77 9 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P user pictslider 44 43 40 40 4 4 4 4 SliderDefaultKnob.pct 1
SliderDefaultBkgnd.pct 1 3443 0 8323072 127 1. 1.;
#P comment 92 54 100 196617 ‘ignore click’ dial;
#P fasten 4 0 3 0 49 131 26 131 26 34 49 34;
#P connect 4 0 2 0;
#P connect 1 0 4 0;
#P connect 1 1 4 1;
#P window clipboard copycount 6;

–
Stefan Tiedje————x——-
–_____———–|————–
–(_|_ —-|—–|—–()——-
– _|_)—-|—–()————–
———-()——–www.ccmix.com

Re: OHM-Force-like knobs???

kochhw — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 20:02:04 +0000

hi kasper,

struggeling with the same thing (opening this funny max5-gibber in a
max5 runtime) some kind soul posted a solution:
http://www.cycling74.com/forums/index.php?t=msg&goto=141333&rid=0&srch=koch#msg_141333
(scroll down to message #141330 by roth)

its tedious but doable

best
hans

http://www.hans-w-koch.net

Am 07.07.2008 um 12:48 schrieb Kasper T Toeplitz:

>> nesa schrieb:
>>>
>>> How about using pictslider under a dial? That way you can have
>>> separate x&y outputs mapped to different increments for each axis.
>>> Below’s one example patch, but it needs more tweaking to be
>>> intuitive (for example, bigger ‘dead zone’ around center for y
>>> axis).
>>
>> Modified the idea a bit, without that accumulation effect…
>
> is it possible to send it in max 4??
>
> (or just a capture of the screen – since max (5) became human-
> readable, and then compressed, if you did not pay the upgrade, you
> can not see the answer to your own question ! at least with the old
> system you could have an idea of the used objects…….
> as said in my original question, ” __I am still on max4.6, but if
> this is possible in [only] max5 it could be a good reason to change!”)
>
> many thanks
>
> kasper
>
> PS
>
> as i belive that for the moment the number of people on this list
> using ONLY max 5 is not that important, would it be possible to send
> (simple) examples/patches in max4 format?? max 4 opens in 5 (I
> think) when max 5 does not open in 4 (yes,I read that F Olofsson
> just did some magic in Super Collider which permits that…)
>
> thanks
> k
>
> —
> Kasper T. Toeplitz
> noise, composition, bass, computer
> http://www.sleazeArt.com
>
> http://www.myspace.com/sleazeart
>