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OpenAL for 3D sound in max/msp

September 3, 2008 | 1:10 pm

HI,

Is there a way to do 3D sound (14 speakers in a sphere) in Max/Msp.

Using OpenAL ?

Thanks

jav


September 3, 2008 | 3:39 pm

In regard to questions like this, it’s often best
to have a look at maxobjects.com, typing in key
words you might be searching for – in addition to
doing the same search of the archives of the Max
list.

It would appear that the answer is "no", or that
anyone who’s done it has decided to remain mum
about the matter. The relative paucity of umptyspeaker
3d arrays in the real world might also contribute to
a certain lack of critical mass. :-)


September 3, 2008 | 9:33 pm

Thank you for the answer,

It will be fun to found my way :)


September 3, 2008 | 9:43 pm


September 4, 2008 | 5:52 am

Wavefield synthesis, very interesting hint, thanks a lot.

I want to suggest different accoustic space/field and transform/merged them. I thought of using rtconv~.

Spat or ambiosonic object don’t seems to have an Elevation factor.

Inside of this changing field, I want to control sound movements in a 3D array with a 3D representation/trigger system.


September 4, 2008 | 6:04 am

Ambisonics allow you to control a sound source on the surface of a
sphere, so there are typically 2 angles (like in 3D spherical
coordinates), azimuth and elevation. They don’t really lend
themselves to placing sources inside our outside the speaker array
though. Wavefield synthesis in 3D is not feasible in realtime at this
point. It can be done in 2D but requires a good understanding of the
technique to get everything right.

wes

On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 10:52 PM, j-Ambroise Vesac wrote:
>
> Wavefield synthesis, very interesting hint, thanks a lot.
>
> I want to suggest different accoustic space/field and transform/merged them. I thought of using rtconv~.
>
> Spat or ambiosonic object don’t seems to have an Elevation factor.
>
> Inside of this changing field, I want to control sound movements in a 3D array with a 3D representation/trigger system.
>
>


September 4, 2008 | 6:13 am

That’s help me to have a better understanding on both techniques. I thought it was possible to move a source along a path across a periphonic space.


September 4, 2008 | 7:35 am

I do believe, however, that you can do 3d with vbap, if that would
work for you.

M

On Sep 4, 2008, at 2:13, j-Ambroise Vesac wrote:

>
> That’s help me to have a better understanding on both techniques. I
> thought it was possible to move a source along a path across a
> periphonic space.


September 4, 2008 | 10:15 am

> Ambisonics allow you to control a sound source on the surface of a
> sphere, so there are typically 2 angles (like in 3D spherical
> coordinates), azimuth and elevation. They don’t really lend
> themselves to placing sources inside our outside the speaker array
> though.

Not to blow my own horn, but I address this in a paper I presented at SMC this year:

http://www.smc08.org/images/proceedings/session2_number3_paper32.pdf

It’s only a proposal and a work in progress, but if anyone cares to give some feedback I’d be glad to discuss it.

All the best,

Rui



waj
September 5, 2008 | 11:03 am


September 20, 2008 | 8:56 pm

Quick summary: vbap and ambisonic share the property of not encoding
distance (by default), but in both cases distance cues can be
simulated using appropriate filter/delay combos. Ambisonics has had
some proposed extensions to more accurately reconstruct distance
effects, but I don’t believe these have been implemented in any of
the various Max/MSP externals yet. Reverberation is likewise absent
from vbap and ambisonics by default, but can be added in a more or
less ad-hoc manner. In general, vbap is going to give you a slightly
less ‘spatial’ and more ‘pointillistic’ ambience, while ambisonics
(if properly configured) will grant an expanded ‘sweet’ listening
area (especially with the higher order ambisonics). vbap is
algorithmically simpler, but when using max externals that won’t make
much difference. both vbap and ambisonics depend upon having a
regularly distributed array of speakers (as equidistant from the
center point and to each neighbor as possible). both vbap &
ambisonics can be 2d or 3d.

As Wesley stated, WFS will be superior in terms of spatial imaging
and distance effects, but unless you have hundreds of well-matched
speakers almost side by side, it’s not going to happen; real-time
moving objects may be extremely CPU intensive and the 3D situation is
very complex indeed.

On Sep 4, 2008, at 12:35 AM, mattyo wrote:

> I do believe, however, that you can do 3d with vbap, if that would
> work for you.
>
> M
>
>
> On Sep 4, 2008, at 2:13, j-Ambroise Vesac wrote:
>
>>
>> That’s help me to have a better understanding on both techniques.
>> I thought it was possible to move a source along a path across a
>> periphonic space.
>

Be seeing you

grrr waaa
http://www.grahamwakefield.net


September 21, 2008 | 10:22 pm

Quote: j-Ambroise Vesac wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 14:10
—————————————————-
> Is there a way to do 3D sound (14 speakers in a sphere) in Max/Msp.
>
> Using OpenAL ?
—————————————————-

BTW. There is some source code for an Open AL external for pd on Windows that I found some time ago.

http://www.muio.org/software.html

It would need developing … (not least since it supports only 5 sources and is pd not Max/MSP)


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