julien breval

I am satisfied with Cubase SE 3 on my PC but I need a similar HDR for a Macbook. The sound card (common to the PC and the Mac) is a Fireface 400.

I do almost all synthesis, effects, performances, etc in Max/MSP so the HDR will be only used for:

* editing / montage (includes tuning the volume of each sound region)

* occasionaly, applying a few equalizers and basic effects

* sample-accurate wave zooming, splitting and moving

* low latency (64-128 samples) as I often use re-recording

What would you choose ? Sorry I never used a HDR on OS X (besides Pro Tools)

I do almost all synthesis, effects, performances, etc in Max/MSP so the HDR will be only used for:
* recording
* editing / montage (includes tuning the volume of each sound region)
* exporting
* occasionaly, applying a few equalizers and basic effects

Important points for me:
* sample-accurate wave zooming, splitting and moving
* possibility of snap to zero crossing
* low latency (64-128 samples) as I often use re-recording
* simple, fast to use

ot-digital-performer-vs-logic-express

If anyone knows about any trials of Logic, DP, etc ...

I personally use DP and am quite happy with it.

I believe you will find fairly balanced arguments for either DP or Logic, leaving the consensus inconclusive.

That being said, you might not need something as big (and expensive) as DP or Logic if you only need to record and edit. You should look into Audacity - a free solution - (

 before you buy anything. You also might like something like XO Wave or Adobe Soundbooth. I'm sure there are others that are also worth looking at.

That being said, you might not need something as big (and expensive) as DP or Logic if you only need to record and edit. You should look into Audacity - a free solution - (http://audacity.sourceforge.net/) before you buy anything. You also might like something like XO Wave or Adobe Soundbooth. I'm sure there are others that are also worth looking at.

> * sample-accurate wave zooming, splitting and moving

> * low latency (64-128 samples) as I often use re-recording

That's more to do with the soundcard than the application, isn't it? The

settings in Logic Express Audio Hardware and Drivers page go down to a

32-sample buffer with built-in hardware on my MacBook, whether it actually

would *work* at that setting is another question.

Logic is ok, once you know it... not really the best thought out interface

in some ways. And I've used it for years. Most of the good stuff in Logic is

That's more to do with the soundcard than the application, isn't it? The
settings in Logic Express Audio Hardware and Drivers page go down to a
32-sample buffer with built-in hardware on my MacBook, whether it actually
would *work* at that setting is another question.

Logic is ok, once you know it... not really the best thought out interface
in some ways. And I've used it for years. Most of the good stuff in Logic is
in Pro rather than Express.

thanks for your anwsers, I'm going to check all this very soon

Quote: wak wrote on Wed, 24 January 2007 19:07

----------------------------------------------------

> That being said, you might not need something as big (and expensive) as DP or Logic if you only need to record and edit. You should look into Audacity - a free solution - (

That's right I will do only very simple things but it has to be perfect. I don't know XO Wave nor Soundbooth and I will try them soon. Also, Reaper will be available for OS X "in mid-2007".

I have used Linux a lot for audio in the past so I first searched for free OS X programs. Unfortunately, most of them don't have some important functions (for me) like sample accurate editing. 

Take Ardour for example. It has great specifications, and it features very good ideas (modularity, *some* parts of the user interface, etc). So why didn't I choose this one ?

-> no snap to zero + no line repreasenting Y=zero on the waveforms [how do you cut a waveform properly ?]

-> I wasn't able to split a waveform besides using the contextual menu (normally it's supposed to be done with the "S" key or something similar)

But Ardour should be a very great program when it is version 1.0 -- unfortunately I need something just now as I will soon have a recording to do.

Quote: wak wrote on Wed, 24 January 2007 19:07
----------------------------------------------------
> That being said, you might not need something as big (and expensive) as DP or Logic if you only need to record and edit. You should look into Audacity - a free solution - (http://audacity.sourceforge.net/) before you buy anything. You also might like something like XO Wave or Adobe Soundbooth. I'm sure there are others that are also worth looking at.
----------------------------------------------------
That's right I will do only very simple things but it has to be perfect. I don't know XO Wave nor Soundbooth and I will try them soon. Also, Reaper will be available for OS X "in mid-2007".

I have used Linux a lot for audio in the past so I first searched for free OS X programs. Unfortunately, most of them don't have some important functions (for me) like sample accurate editing. 
Take Ardour for example. It has great specifications, and it features very good ideas (modularity, *some* parts of the user interface, etc). So why didn't I choose this one ?
-> poor X-axis zooming
-> no snap to zero + no line repreasenting Y=zero on the waveforms [how do you cut a waveform properly ?]
-> I wasn't able to split a waveform besides using the contextual menu (normally it's supposed to be done with the "S" key or something similar)
[etc]
But Ardour should be a very great program when it is version 1.0 -- unfortunately I need something just now as I will soon have a recording to do.


Quote: j.simon wrote on Wed, 24 January 2007 20:20

> > * sample-accurate wave zooming, splitting and moving

> > * possibility of snap to zero crossing

> > * low latency (64-128 samples) as I often use re-recording

> That's more to do with the soundcard than the application, isn't it? The

> settings in Logic Express Audio Hardware and Drivers page go down to a

> 32-sample buffer with built-in hardware on my MacBook, whether it actually

> would *work* at that setting is another question.

> Logic is ok, once you know it... not really the best thought out interface

> in some ways. And I've used it for years. Most of the good stuff in Logic is

What do you mean exactly by "Not that well supported in Logic" ?

About the latency, I agree with you but some programs don't allow settings like 16, 32 or 64.

About the good stuff being in Pro rather than Express, are you talking about features or about performances ?

Quote: j.simon wrote on Wed, 24 January 2007 20:20
----------------------------------------------------
> Logic Express thoughts;
>
> > * sample-accurate wave zooming, splitting and moving
>
> Not that well supported in Logic.
>
> > * possibility of snap to zero crossing
>
> Not sure.
>
> > * low latency (64-128 samples) as I often use re-recording
>
> That's more to do with the soundcard than the application, isn't it? The
> settings in Logic Express Audio Hardware and Drivers page go down to a
> 32-sample buffer with built-in hardware on my MacBook, whether it actually
> would *work* at that setting is another question.
>
> > * simple, fast to use
>
> Logic is ok, once you know it... not really the best thought out interface
> in some ways. And I've used it for years. Most of the good stuff in Logic is
> in Pro rather than Express.
----------------------------------------------------

About the good stuff being in Pro rather than Express, are you talking about features or about performances ?


> What do you mean exactly by "Not that well supported in Logic" ?

It's not something I bother about much, I just hack about and slice audio

files up any old where. But, I do pay passing attention to the Logic Users

Group mailing list, where one of the most common complaints from people who

care about these things is the 'lack of sample accurate editing' in the

Arrange page - the arrange page being the main front page, where you view

and edit audio and midi regions. I think you *can* do sample accurate

editing if you work in the audio editor, but that rather defeats the

> About the good stuff being in Pro rather than Express, are you talking about

Features; like the physical modelling synth Sculpture, the convolving reverb

Space Designer, the drum machine Ultrabeat, and a the sample editor. All of

these things are in Pro only. For basic audio performance, I would have

thought they would have been absolutely identical. (As would Garage Band,

which is the same code under the hood. Except that the fancy gfx in GB are a

>
> What do you mean exactly by "Not that well supported in Logic" ?

It's not something I bother about much, I just hack about and slice audio
files up any old where. But, I do pay passing attention to the Logic Users
Group mailing list, where one of the most common complaints from people who
care about these things is the 'lack of sample accurate editing' in the
Arrange page - the arrange page being the main front page, where you view
and edit audio and midi regions. I think you *can* do sample accurate
editing if you work in the audio editor, but that rather defeats the
purpose.

> About the good stuff being in Pro rather than Express, are you talking about
> features or about performances ?

Features; like the physical modelling synth Sculpture, the convolving reverb
Space Designer, the drum machine Ultrabeat, and a the sample editor. All of
these things are in Pro only. For basic audio performance, I would have
thought they would have been absolutely identical. (As would Garage Band,
which is the same code under the hood. Except that the fancy gfx in GB are a
bit of a hog.)

> I'm sure there are others that are also worth looking at.

and Live of course, the latter seems the most interesting as its well 

ian wrote:
> I'm sure there are others that are also worth looking at.

Garageband ?;-)
Ardour an open source DAW
and Live of course, the latter seems the most interesting as its well 
tested with Max/pluggo...

-- 
Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
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[OT] Digital Performer vs Logic Express