Matthew Aidekman

Why do ready made synths and effects not naturally materialize in the 

There are a zillion MAX/MSP/Jitter Nuts on this list and yet 

virtually no "ready-made" "Gui-routing-algorithm" synthesizers 

One thing I hear from many techs is "I took apart everything when I 

was little" In max there really isn't an opportunity to do that. I 

regret having to compare max to reaktor but... on this one point, I 

am envious. is there even a basic sim-analog synth available?

Creating, programming, and playing a synth require 3 very separate 

head-spaces for me. sometimes just tweaking ready-made synths gets 

me there quicker. Other times I want to custom make stuff. It's 

very possible for maxer's to have both. Why do we opt not to?

I'll suppress personal answers so as not to color responses

SHORT VERSION-------
Why do ready made synths and effects not naturally materialize in the  
max community?

LONG VERSION--------
There are a zillion MAX/MSP/Jitter Nuts on this list and yet  
virtually no "ready-made" "Gui-routing-algorithm" synthesizers  
effects.  (audio or video)

One thing I hear from many techs is "I took apart everything when I  
was little"  In max there really isn't an opportunity to do that.  I  
regret having to compare max to reaktor but...  on this one point, I  
am envious.  is there even a basic sim-analog synth available?

Creating, programming, and playing a synth require 3 very separate  
head-spaces for me.  sometimes just tweaking ready-made synths gets  
me there quicker.  Other times I want to custom make stuff.  It's  
very possible for maxer's to have both.  Why do we opt not to?

I'll suppress personal answers so as not to color responses
-matt


otsociology-why-no-boxed-synths

On Feb 4, 2006, at 5:52 PM, matthew aidekman wrote:

> Why do ready made synths and effects not naturally materialize in 

People are using Max primarily because they're sick of ready made 

> Creating, programming, and playing a synth require 3 very separate 

> head-spaces for me. sometimes just tweaking ready-made synths gets 

> me there quicker. Other times I want to custom make stuff. It's 

> very possible for maxer's to have both. Why do we opt not to?

I'd reckon, perhaps, because it has already been done. If you really 

want tweakable, ready-made synths, just use something like Reaktor. 

Reaktor 5 especially is highly optimized for these sorts of things.

I think it really comes down to economy of time. Most things in the 

"ready made" category can be found if you pick up a software like 

Reaktor and raid the user library. Ready-made synths tend to be used 

by practical people, and practical people don't redo work that has 

already been done. In truth, Reaktor is more suitable for this sort 

of thing than Max. Best tool for the job and all that. Given things 

like Jack, Soundflower, OSC, etc, getting them to play nice is easier 

> Just wondering everyones opinion.
>
> SHORT VERSION-------
> Why do ready made synths and effects not naturally materialize in  
> the max community?

People are using Max primarily because they're sick of ready made  
synths.

> Creating, programming, and playing a synth require 3 very separate  
> head-spaces for me.  sometimes just tweaking ready-made synths gets  
> me there quicker.  Other times I want to custom make stuff.  It's  
> very possible for maxer's to have both.  Why do we opt not to?

I'd reckon, perhaps, because it has already been done. If you really  
want tweakable, ready-made synths, just use something like Reaktor.  
Reaktor 5 especially is highly optimized for these sorts of things.

I think it really comes down to economy of time. Most things in the  
"ready made" category can be found if you pick up a software like  
Reaktor and raid the user library. Ready-made synths tend to be used  
by practical people, and practical people don't redo work that has  
already been done. In truth, Reaktor is more suitable for this sort  
of thing than Max. Best tool for the job and all that. Given things  
like Jack, Soundflower, OSC, etc, getting them to play nice is easier  
than ever before.

> Why do ready made synths and effects not naturally materialize in the 

I think they do. But not to the extent you might expect, partly because 

(As John mentioned) lots of people are using these tools to do things 

that are difficult or impossible to do elsewhere. They're also not all 

bundled together in an organized, quality-controlled set... though not 

restricted to patches, C'74 Share is good: 

https://cycling74.com/twiki/bin/view/Share

> There are a zillion MAX/MSP/Jitter Nuts on this list and yet virtually 

> no "ready-made" "Gui-routing-algorithm" synthesizers effects. (audio or 

I think I know what you mean by "ready-made", but what does 

"GUI-routing-algorithm" mean? I guess you don't mean this:

http://www.linuxedge.org/videos/glxcompmgr.mpeg

> One thing I hear from many techs is "I took apart everything when I was 

> little" In max there really isn't an opportunity to do that. I regret

I think the tutorials and example patches are a great opportunity to do 

this. In addition, there are patches listed on maxobjects.com as well 

as a fine load of interesting patches coming through this list. (I 

would *love* some sort of list-patch repository, though that does 

already exist to an extent since patch semantics are searchable.)

> envious. is there even a basic sim-analog synth available?

http://www.creativesynth.com/MAXMSP/maxmspmain.html

> head-spaces for me. sometimes just tweaking ready-made synths gets me 

> there quicker. Other times I want to custom make stuff. It's very 

> possible for maxer's to have both. Why do we opt not to?

Although it doesn't get much airplay here, I think since [vst~] came 

along a lot of people have been doing things that way. It doesn't have 

the DIY 1337-factor, but if you're sane that's not always what you're 

looking for. Good for making music. Bad for learning DSP. Here you do 

...even if you want to do something "not recommended" by David Z., like 

make your own general purpose sequencer. So of course that's what I 

work on when I feel the itch. I want my compositional environment to 

mirror how I think about music, not the other way around. The best way 

for me to work is with a set of abstractions.

> I'll suppress personal answers so as not to color responses

I'd like mine colored with a well-loved box of crayons, thanks.

> SHORT VERSION-------
> Why do ready made synths and effects not naturally materialize in the 
> max community?

I think they do.  But not to the extent you might expect, partly because 
(As John mentioned) lots of people are using these tools to do things 
that are difficult or impossible to do elsewhere.  They're also not all 
bundled together in an organized, quality-controlled set... though not 
restricted to patches, C'74 Share is good: 
https://cycling74.com/twiki/bin/view/Share

> LONG VERSION--------
> There are a zillion MAX/MSP/Jitter Nuts on this list and yet virtually 
> no "ready-made" "Gui-routing-algorithm" synthesizers effects.  (audio or 
> video)

I think I know what you mean by "ready-made", but what does 
"GUI-routing-algorithm" mean?  I guess you don't mean this:

> One thing I hear from many techs is "I took apart everything when I was 
> little"  In max there really isn't an opportunity to do that.  I regret 

I think the tutorials and example patches are a great opportunity to do 
this.  In addition, there are patches listed on maxobjects.com as well 
as a fine load of interesting patches coming through this list.  (I 
would *love* some sort of list-patch repository, though that does 
already exist to an extent since patch semantics are searchable.)

> envious.  is there even a basic sim-analog synth available?

> Creating, programming, and playing a synth require 3 very separate 
> head-spaces for me.  sometimes just tweaking ready-made synths gets me 
> there quicker.  Other times I want to custom make stuff.  It's very 
> possible for maxer's to have both.  Why do we opt not to?

Although it doesn't get much airplay here, I think since [vst~] came 
along a lot of people have been doing things that way.  It doesn't have 
the DIY 1337-factor, but if you're sane that's not always what you're 
looking for.  Good for making music.  Bad for learning DSP.  Here you do 
still have all the options...

...even if you want to do something "not recommended" by David Z., like 
make your own general purpose sequencer.  So of course that's what I 
work on when I feel the itch.  I want my compositional environment to 
mirror how I think about music, not the other way around.  The best way 
for me to work is with a set of abstractions.

SHORT VERSION:: yeah if you wants synths/fx modules, use reaktor.... max/msp can do such different things than just build synths and effects boxes... it seems kind of silly to use it for that, at least for meh. I'm using it for eartraining right now heh, I mean, its just not your conventional program.. it's roots are in the MAX side of things anyways, which has nothing to do with building synths as you may and or may not know. Reaktor came along after building synths in software was a real possibility. max/msps real strength is in being able to control anything with anything...

SHORT VERSION:: yeah if you wants synths/fx modules, use reaktor.... max/msp can do such different things than just build synths and effects boxes... it seems kind of silly to use it for that, at least for meh.  I'm using it for eartraining right now heh, I mean, its just not your conventional program.. it's roots are in the MAX side of things anyways, which has nothing to do with building synths as you may and or may not know. Reaktor came along after building synths in software was a real possibility.  max/msps real strength is in being able to control anything with anything...

[ot][sociology] Why No Boxed Synths