Forums > MaxMSP

PCM90 and sysex

July 5, 2008 | 4:41 pm

Hi,
I would like to build an editor for the lexicon PCM series.
I got all the documentations from Lexicon, the nice Lobjects to manage Sysex.
I succeed in sending simple data changes on the PCM from Max using the remote protocol.

Now I need to send data requests to the PCM to display the loaded program’s state.

Despite many efforts, I can’t do this, I always got ‘sysex data error…" on the PCM LCD.

If anyone succeed in such a task, please give me a hand, I really can’t figure what"s wrong in the messages I send to the PCM.

I know it is quite off topic for a max’s forum, but I think some people smarter than me already tried to master this PCM.

Thanks a lot

Olivier


July 6, 2008 | 5:00 am

Although I probably can’t offer any more expertise than you have already, this would be useful for me and my clients, I’m interested in the process, and happy to help test or whatever else an end-user could do.

Best of luck pushing ahead,
Brian


July 6, 2008 | 7:53 am

Hello Brian,

thanks for your concern, it will help me to keep searching.


July 6, 2008 | 9:07 am

Olivier Sebillotte schrieb:
> Now I need to send data requests to the PCM to display the loaded
> program’s state.
>
> Despite many efforts, I can’t do this, I always got ‘sysex data
> error…" on the PCM LCD.

Post a patch, and a reference to the sysex documentation of the PCM…

A midi monitor, which would allow you to verify which bytes you sent
would be helpful as well. (You can send the bytes back to Max with the
IAC bus if you are on a Mac…)

F0 You need to know the basics of Midi and Sysex… FE

(If you don’t know what these F0 and FE means, you need to learn exactly
that… ;-)

Stefan


Stefan Tiedje————x——-
–_____———–|————–
–(_|_ —-|—–|—–()——-
– _|_)—-|—–()————–
———-()——–www.ccmix.com


July 6, 2008 | 10:14 am

Hi Steffan,

thanks for your help

attached is a patcher with everything I tried until now, what works and what doesn’t.
plus the midi implementations charts I am refering to.

BTW, yes I did understood your joke, but why do you set a F0 at the end of sysex instead of F7 ?

Olivier


July 12, 2008 | 10:09 pm

Ok, I finaly found the "rosetta stone" and now I can send data requests to my PCM.
But I have to say that the guys who wrote the PCM’s sysex implementation document had in mind something like:

"let’s make it so cryptic that no one will ever make a midi editor"

Anyway,

now I come back to you dear friends to ask for a wise advice:

What is the best format to handle complex sysex
integer or hexadecimal ?

The Lexicon’s document uses Hexa, L.Objects uses Hexa,
Max 5 objects uses integer.
I feel much confortable with integer but it is just because I never used Hexa.

Experienced Max user advice needed :-)

Thanks a lot


July 13, 2008 | 10:09 am

> But I have to say that the guys who wrote the PCM’s sysex
> implementation document had in mind something like:
>
> "let’s make it so cryptic that no one will ever make a midi editor"

I had a look at the sysex for the Lexicon LXP-1 and LXP-5 many years
ago, and they are also extremely messy.

> What is the best format to handle complex sysex
> integer or hexadecimal ?

I don’t understand the question. Integers are integers; the values are
the same whether formatted/presented in decimal, hex, octal or
anything else. If the Lexicon docs write in hex, you probably want to
use that for your constants.

– N.

Nick Rothwell / Cassiel.com Limited
http://www.cassiel.com
http://www.myspace.com/cassieldotcom
http://www.last.fm/music/cassiel
http://www.reverbnation.com/cassiel
http://www.linkedin.com/in/cassiel
http://www.loadbang.net


July 13, 2008 | 5:13 pm

Quote: nick rothwell / cassiel wrote on Sun, 13 July 2008 12:09
—————————————————-

> > What is the best format to handle complex sysex
> > integer or hexadecimal ?
>
> I don’t understand the question. Integers are integers; the values are
> the same whether formatted/presented in decimal, hex, octal or
> anything else. If the Lexicon docs write in hex, you probably want to
> use that for your constants.
>
—————————————————-

Hello Nick,
The reason I hesisate is that I think there are more max’s objects to handle integer than hexa.
But I can’t help to think that if sysex are more comonly used for sysex there must be a reason.

no ?


July 15, 2008 | 12:35 am

Quote: Olivier Sebillotte wrote on Sun, 13 July 2008 19:13
—————————————————-
> But I can’t help to think that if sysex are more comonly used for sysex there must be a reason.
>
> no ?
—————————————————-
Hi Olivier,

Hex is the way to deal with single bits. And it is shorter than decimal and synth-people are used to it. I personally avoid Hex whenever I can (I am not used to it). If you talk to electronic devices via messages it is really only a question of number formatting.

Nice to meet you here!


July 15, 2008 | 6:46 pm

Quote: Peter Ostry wrote on Tue, 15 July 2008 02:35
—————————————————-
> Quote: Olivier Sebillotte wrote on Sun, 13 July 2008 19:13
> —————————————————-
> > But I can’t help to think that if sysex are more comonly used for sysex there must be a reason.
> >
> > no ?
> —————————————————-
> Hi Olivier,
>
> Hex is the way to deal with single bits. And it is shorter than decimal and synth-people are used to it. I personally avoid Hex whenever I can (I am not used to it). If you talk to electronic devices via messages it is really only a question of number formatting.
>
> Nice to meet you here!
>
—————————————————-
Hi Pete, happy to see you here as well ;-)

Thanks for intake, I guess I will go the decimal way.
I just have to make an hexadecimal->decimal table for quick converting.
The apple OSX’s calculator has a nice programmer mode btw.

cheers


July 16, 2008 | 3:19 am

Don’t forget the max "number" object supports displaying hexadecimal.

Sprintf should be able to convert integers to hex: [sprintf %x]

Good luck with your interface building and do share some patches.
It’d be nice to see a open editing framework like sounddiver made in Max and expanded by users.


July 16, 2008 | 8:48 am

Anthony Bisset schrieb:
> It’d be nice to see a open editing framework like sounddiver made in
> Max and expanded by users.

Wasn’t Max the reason why Emagic stopped developing Sounddiver?…


Stefan Tiedje————x——-
–_____———–|————–
–(_|_ —-|—–|—–()——-
– _|_)—-|—–()————–
———-()——–www.ccmix.com


July 16, 2008 | 8:46 pm

Quote: Anthony Bisset wrote on Wed, 16 July 2008 05:19
—————————————————-
> Don’t forget the max "number" object supports displaying hexadecimal.
>
> Sprintf should be able to convert integers to hex: [sprintf %x]
>
> Good luck with your interface building and do share some patches.
> It’d be nice to see a open editing framework like sounddiver made in Max and expanded by users.
>
—————————————————-

Thanks a lot Anthony for the tips and your support.


July 16, 2008 | 8:53 pm

Quote: Stefan Tiedje wrote on Wed, 16 July 2008 10:48
—————————————————-
> Anthony Bisset schrieb:
> > It’d be nice to see a open editing framework like sounddiver made in
> > Max and expanded by users.
>
> Wasn’t Max the reason why Emagic stopped developing Sounddiver?…
>
> —
> Stefan Tiedje————x——-
>
—————————————————-

Hi Stefan,
I don’t think so.
These two applications looks very differents to me.
Soundiver was an editor and librarian for midi gears
I don’t know many Max patches doing this job as well.

What looks closer in to Max is the Environment in Logic since day one.
Actually, I bought Logic many years ago because I could’nt understand Max, and Logic offered me a very powerfull and user friendly tool for my midi needs.


August 28, 2008 | 9:42 pm

Hi Olivier,
Just wondering if you’re coming along with this at all? I wonder if they PCM70 sys ex is similar, or totally different? I’ll be back in range of a PCM 91, 81, and 70 in the next few weeks.

Best,
Brian


August 28, 2008 | 11:04 pm

Hi Brian,

The project is going well, I can request and compute all the datas I need from my PCM.

Now I have to make up my mind about the way to display datas on the computer.There are two options:
a) using the "screen dumps" from the PCM

b) using the datas from the GUI then scale them for every type of parameter to fit with the context

a) is very easy but leads to a quite slow display because of sysex transfert in realtime

b) will provide a light speed GUI response but I have to transfrom the values for every single parameters and the PCM has a lot !

Maybe I should try to optimize the sysex transfert speed first then decide to gon or use option b.

About the PCM 70,
Has it doesn’t offer the same flexibilty ( request for a specific parameter) as the 80, 81, 90, 91, I will have to use the full datas dumps to parse the datas I need.
Even if the 70 has less parameters it won’t be trivial to do.

So I would says that I will have a lookt at the 70 after the others.

Olivier

Quote: Brian H. wrote on Thu, 28 August 2008 23:42
—————————————————-
> Hi Olivier,
> Just wondering if you’re coming along with this at all? I wonder if they PCM70 sys ex is similar, or totally different? I’ll be back in range of a PCM 91, 81, and 70 in the next few weeks.
>
> Best,
> Brian
—————————————————-


June 25, 2014 | 10:15 am

This topic is quite old but I keep receiving emails from people trying to master the PCM.
Don’t hesitate to contact me to get the patcher.

Olivier


August 8, 2014 | 10:25 pm

I’m still interested! After being disappointed with MIDIquest thus far, and our PCM 70 is now in a more accessible location– I even found the old MRC! I also just soldered a new battery to the board on it. There are also a couple of 81′s around…

Thanks!
brian@whattheheller.com


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