Forums > MaxMSP

PLL Phase Locked Loop

May 22, 2008 | 7:10 pm

Im curious if anyone has implemented this or knows what it would consist of, Ive only heard of it in a few analogue modular systems, looks like it follows harmonics?

http://www.doepfer.de/A196.htm

half way down is the English version and further there is a block diagram and a few sound examples. Seems like it could be cool, any thoughts?



May 23, 2008 | 2:56 am

looks like pitch tracking is a big part of it, was going to use fiddle but I wonder if thats missing the point of phase tracking.


May 23, 2008 | 3:42 am

It sounds like you’re still after demodulating?
I found this interesting website while looking for what phase comparison was on the doepfer page.

http://tf.nist.gov/general/enc-p.htm

Maybe this could help?
I’m getting interested in what you’re trying to work out…


May 23, 2008 | 8:07 am

There was a great mod for the Paia Fatman that used
this technique – see http://tinyurl.com/486ulj. Mine
has sadly died, and I don’t have the time to fix it,
but it would be nice to be able to recreate the sound.

The trouble with digital simulations of analogue
techniques, is that they always end up sounding rather
disappointing – ring mod being a classic case in
point. Sure, multiplying two signals does the job /in
theory/, but the results are never going to sound like
a Bode in full cry. I think the only way you’re going
to get those sort of sounds out of Max/MSP is by
coding your own physical modeling objects.

That said, it’s always fun trying, and if anyone does
manage to get that Tomita/Pere Ubu/Terje Rypdal sound
out of standard Max objects, be sure to let us know!
cheers
Roger

— Don K wrote:

>
> It sounds like you’re still after demodulating?
> I found this interesting website while looking for
> what phase comparison was on the doepfer page.
>
> http://tf.nist.gov/general/enc-p.htm
>
> Maybe this could help?
> I’m getting interested in what you’re trying to work
> out…
>
>
> –
> -DonK
>


May 23, 2008 | 7:06 pm

Im actually working on something really cool that I plan to make freely available to the community very soon, and I think people will appreciate it (I sure would have if someone else made it)

Still researching this bit, cant seem to figure out how to track pitch based on zero crossings, but Im sure theres something out there. Im still wondering if fiddle uses a technique like this or if its spectral based.


May 23, 2008 | 7:08 pm

I think you will be rather suppressed at some of the sound quality im getting, max has some truly incredible objects if you know where to look, and Ive learned about many of them through the awesome people on this forum.

Quote: roger.carruthers wrote on Fri, 23 May 2008 02:07
—————————————————-
> There was a great mod for the Paia Fatman that used
> this technique – see http://tinyurl.com/486ulj. Mine
> has sadly died, and I don’t have the time to fix it,
> but it would be nice to be able to recreate the sound.
>
> The trouble with digital simulations of analogue
> techniques, is that they always end up sounding rather
> disappointing – ring mod being a classic case in
> point. Sure, multiplying two signals does the job /in
> theory/, but the results are never going to sound like
> a Bode in full cry. I think the only way you’re going
> to get those sort of sounds out of Max/MSP is by
> coding your own physical modeling objects.
>
> That said, it’s always fun trying, and if anyone does
> manage to get that Tomita/Pere Ubu/Terje Rypdal sound
> out of standard Max objects, be sure to let us know!
> cheers
> Roger
>
> — Don K wrote:
>
> >
> > It sounds like you’re still after demodulating?
> > I found this interesting website while looking for
> > what phase comparison was on the doepfer page.
> >
> > http://tf.nist.gov/general/enc-p.htm
> >
> > Maybe this could help?
> > I’m getting interested in what you’re trying to work
> > out…
> >
> >
> > –
> > -DonK
> >
>
>
—————————————————-


May 23, 2008 | 7:10 pm

suppressed hahaha, damn spell checker, surprised is more like it


May 24, 2008 | 2:57 pm

On 23 May 2008, at 21:06, Nicholas C. Raftis III wrote:
> Still researching this bit, cant seem to figure out how to track
> pitch based on zero crossings, but Im sure theres something out
> there. Im still wondering if fiddle uses a technique like this or
> if its spectral based.

fiddle~ uses a spectral approach.

here is a simple zerocrossing counter that works reasonably well with
basic input signals like sinusoids and squarewaves etc.
actually i doubt that a pitch tracker like this is used in PLL, but
maybe this will still get you somewhere.
volker.

#P window setfont "Sans Serif" 9.;
#P window linecount 1;
#N vpatcher 20 74 325 409;
#P window setfont "Sans Serif" 9.;
#P window linecount 1;
#P newex 87 216 34 196617 !/~ 1;
#P newex 175 75 33 196617 >~ 0.;
#P newex 87 183 31 196617 sah~;
#P newex 108 162 30 196617 >~ 0;
#P newex 87 137 38 196617 delta~;
#P newex 87 106 31 196617 sah~;
#P newex 87 69 55 196617 phasor~ 1;
#P inlet 175 55 15 0;
#P outlet 87 262 15 0;
#P connect 2 0 3 0;
#P connect 3 0 4 0;
#P connect 4 0 6 0;
#P connect 6 0 8 0;
#P connect 8 0 0 0;
#P connect 7 0 3 1;
#P connect 4 0 5 0;
#P connect 5 0 6 1;
#P connect 1 0 7 0;
#P pop;
#P newobj 76 136 91 196617 p count0crossings;
#P user ezdac~ 223 131 267 164 0;
#P user number~ 76 195 147 210 9 3 3 2 0. 0. 0 0. 250 0. 0 0 0 221
221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P flonum 76 76 52 9 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P newex 76 100 61 196617 cycle~ 440;
#P connect 1 0 0 0;
#P connect 0 0 4 0;
#P connect 4 0 2 0;
#P window clipboard copycount 5;


May 26, 2008 | 7:43 pm

thanks! looks good, Ill play with this soon and let you know how it goes.


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