oolfur

will the original pluggo patches ever be released? i really miss some plugs from the collection...

and if anyone remembers kitten vibrato - could you point out dsp methods to get similar results?

hi board
will the original pluggo patches ever be released? i really miss some plugs from the collection...

pluggo-patches

Yes. Many of them have been released as part of Max4Live. Can't remember Kitten Vibrato offhand.

iirc, kitten vibrato is not an effect itself, but a preset. i think it belongs to the vibrato cauldron pluggo, which is now part of m4l (although this specific preset is not included).

the inner workings are pretty simple- basically it's just a modulated allpass filter. and yes, you can get a lot of cool sounds out of it.

iirc, kitten vibrato is not an effect itself, but a preset. i think it belongs to the vibrato cauldron pluggo, which is now part of m4l (although this specific preset is not included).
the inner workings are pretty simple- basically it's just a modulated allpass filter. and yes, you can get a lot of cool sounds out of it.


will cycling release the original pluggo patches or is that wishful thinking?

As has been mentioned, something between 40 and 50 of the original pluggo plug-ins are included with Max for Live. The Vibrato Cauldron is one of those whose source patch is available, although a quick look suggests that you'd need to copy down some paramater values since that particular preset isn't part of the package. There are no plans to release anything beyond that.

yeah thats paradox. we bought the plugins a few years ago and now we can buy them again with M4l!

I can't help you much if you honestly think that the pluggo stuff is all you're getting in M4L, but you can always think that you're getting the source this time out (in addition to all the other stuff). You want Filtertap to use tempo-locked note values instead of milliseconds? Knock yourself out, etc. I'm guessing that doesn't matter to you much, though.

I feel a little sad that there is no opportunity for those of us who don't use Ableton to see how those plugins were put together. I would of thought they would make a brilliant educational resource for general dsp and many things max-related.

I'm sure I'm not the only person who feels left out from discovering maxmsp too late to learn from tools/instruments like pluggo without needing to jump on the ever-accellerating Ableton bandwagon ( I realise the relative absurdity of that over-the-top sentence, but still.............)

I feel a little sad that there is no opportunity for those of us who don't use Ableton to see how those plugins were put together.  I would of thought they would make a brilliant educational resource for general dsp and many things max-related.

I'm sure I'm not the only person who feels left out from discovering maxmsp too late to learn from tools/instruments like pluggo without needing to jump on the ever-accellerating Ableton bandwagon ( I realise the relative absurdity of that over-the-top sentence, but still.............)


"I can't help you much if you honestly think that the pluggo stuff is all you're getting in M4L"

Its maybe hard to imagine, but if you simply don't work with sequencers, it would be an investment of 450 $ for just getting the sources of those 40 pluggos. I think they had been much cheaper back then...

As the device format (.amxd) isn't readable by Max, only by M4L, this is maybe meant to push anyone it might concern to their own social networks (outside web 2.0) and to push their friends as well to an officially uncommon but in the real world pretty common way of thinking about intellectual property...

It would be easier though, and much more clear, if cycling simply would give officially access to those sources for those who bought pluggo in the past, especially because its not protected...

would it be technically illegal for someone to simply upload all of those M4L Pluggo sources for everyone that wants them? i presume so, otherwise surely someone would have already done it... it seems a lot of fuss, although i understand the pluggo owners frustrations and agree with stefan. apologies if this post is out of order, i am clueless about these things.

I actually bought Ableton because of M4L (or rather the demise of Pluggo) , but was not impressed enough with it to actually fork out for M4L.

Like many other old timers here, I supported the Pluggo community, making my humble offerings available etc. and have generally supported the Max community over the years - been a keen C74 evangelist in fact.

But this whole Pluggo/Ableton thing is the first thing that Cycling has ever done that left me feeling out in the cold (OK, I preferred the list to the forum - I've said it now).

Offering the source to non M4L owners would seem a small thing to do to compensate those of us who continue to believe in Pluggo and have yet to be sucked into the Ableton way.

Well said, that man.
 I actually bought Ableton because of M4L (or rather the demise of Pluggo) , but was not impressed enough with it to actually fork out for M4L.
 Like many other old timers here, I supported the Pluggo community, making my humble offerings available etc. and have generally supported the Max community over the years - been a keen C74 evangelist in fact.
 But this whole Pluggo/Ableton thing is the first thing that Cycling has ever done that left me feeling out in the cold (OK, I preferred the list to the forum - I've said it now).
 Offering the source to non M4L owners would seem a small thing to do to compensate those of us who continue to believe in Pluggo and have yet to be sucked into the Ableton way.
 Cue a roasting from Gregory ...
cheers
Roger


just a little technical comment on the subject:

Would it be illegal to reveal the fact, that removing the characters before the first "{" in a .amxd seems to make it a regular .maxpat file ?

just a little technical comment on the subject:
Would it be illegal to reveal the fact, that removing the characters before the first "{" in a .amxd seems to make it a regular .maxpat file ?


I agree that it might make sense for the source code to be available for those who have already purchased Pluggo. I also think it would make sense for it to be made available for people newer to the the whole scene (like me :) ) who made the mistake of not buying it in the short time before it vanished.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying that I think all the source code should be free, of course that wouldn't be fair on the people who made them for release in the first place. I expect to pay for software that people have spent long hours developing. I'll just have to quit my moaning and go down other routes to learn more about these things........and then try and learn C++ in my spare time (and max/msp starts to look even more like a prototyping environment rather than an audio development tool).

I agree that it might make sense for the source code to be available for those who have already purchased Pluggo.  I also think it would make sense for it to be made available for people newer to the the whole scene (like me :) ) who made the mistake of not buying it in the short time before it vanished.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying that I think all the source code should be free, of course that wouldn't be fair on the people who made them for release in the first place.  I expect to pay for software that people have spent long hours developing.  I'll just have to quit my moaning and go down other routes to learn more about these things........and then try and learn C++ in my spare time (and max/msp starts to look even more like a prototyping environment rather than an audio development tool).
