Leigh Marble

On both my systems, running Max 4.6, the pp object seems to be in quite a state of disarray. For starters, it has three outlets instead of two, the third outlet saying "dumpout" on rollover.

In addition, the two outlets are not properly tracking the input. For an integer input, the outlets toggle between 0 and 1. For a float input, the left outlet toggles between 0 and 1, while the middle outlet echoes the input from 0 to 1, but then caps out at 1.

https://cycling74.com/forums/index.php?t=msg&goto=83149

Here's a sample patch, but really, it's pretty easy to make a patch with one pp object and see if it's got three outlets or not...

Is perhaps related to this issue?:
https://cycling74.com/forums/index.php?t=msg&goto=83149

pp-plug-in-parameter-object-messed-up-in-4-6-2

This from the developer in question, in response to this query:

> In the past, pp has worked for me in this way: values in are 

> immediately sent to the left outlet as scaled data and to the 

> In the new release, pp no longer seems to echo to the left outlet, 

> although raw data in the center outlet is still flowing.

"Prior to Max 4.6, the pp object used a different technique for 

controlling feedback networks than it does post 4.6. The previous 

approach in the pp object worked quite well, but led to a variety of 

problems in a number of contexts that didn't exist when the previous 

pp behavior was originally implemented. The most widely-experienced 

problem was that it broke in recent versions of Ableton Live when a 

user decided to use the "Clip Envelope" feature of that host.

"The new technique, which is backwards compatible for the typical 

patching situation (as demonstrated in the example above) prevents 

all of these problems related to feedback issues. Some Pluggo-based 

patches may need some minor modification, but it should be quite 

simple, and we hope that it is acceptable. If you experience trouble 

and need any help (or have questions) while transitioning any 

patches, please feel free to send them in to support@cycling74.com."

Am 11.12.2006 um 10:12 schrieb Leigh Marble:

> On both my systems, running Max 4.6, the pp object seems to be in 

> quite a state of disarray. For starters, it has three outlets 

> instead of two, the third outlet saying "dumpout" on rollover.

> In addition, the two outlets are not properly tracking the input. 

> For an integer input, the outlets toggle between 0 and 1. For a 

> float input, the left outlet toggles between 0 and 1, while the 

> middle outlet echoes the input from 0 to 1, but then caps out at 1.

> Can anyone verify this on their systems?

> Here's a sample patch, but really, it's pretty easy to make a patch 

> with one pp object and see if it's got three outlets or not...

> #P flonum 136 97 35 9 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;

> #P flonum 139 150 35 9 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;

> #P flonum 98 150 35 9 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;

> #P number 98 97 35 9 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;

> #P newobj 98 126 92 196617 pp 1 c1 wtf 0 127;

> #P comment 230 71 153 196626 What is happening here? A third 

> In the past, pp has worked for me in this way: values in are  
> immediately sent to the left outlet as scaled data and to the  
> center outlet as raw 0. - 1. data.
>
> In the new release, pp no longer seems to echo to the left outlet,  
> although raw data in the center outlet is still flowing.

"Prior to Max 4.6, the pp object used a different technique for  
controlling feedback networks than it does post 4.6.  The previous  
approach in the pp object worked quite well, but led to a variety of  
problems in a number of contexts that didn't exist when the previous  
pp behavior was originally implemented.  The most widely-experienced  
problem was that it broke in recent versions of Ableton Live when a  
user decided to use the "Clip Envelope" feature of that host.

"The new technique, which is backwards compatible for the typical  
patching situation (as demonstrated in the example above) prevents  
all of these problems related to feedback issues.  Some Pluggo-based  
patches may need some minor modification, but it should be quite  
simple, and we hope that it is acceptable.  If you experience trouble  
and need any help (or have questions) while transitioning any  
patches, please feel free to send them in to support@cycling74.com."

>
> I just noticed this:
>
> On both my systems, running Max 4.6, the pp object seems to be in  
> quite a state of disarray. For starters, it has three outlets  
> instead of two, the third outlet saying "dumpout" on rollover.
>
> In addition, the two outlets are not properly tracking the input.  
> For an integer input, the outlets toggle between 0 and 1. For a  
> float input, the left outlet toggles between 0 and 1, while the  
> middle outlet echoes the input from 0 to 1, but then caps out at 1.
>
> Can anyone verify this on their systems?
>
> Is perhaps related to this issue?:
> https://cycling74.com/forums/index.php?t=msg&goto=83149
>
> Here's a sample patch, but really, it's pretty easy to make a patch  
> with one pp object and see if it's got three outlets or not...
>
> max v2;
> #N vpatcher 36 81 636 481;
> #P window setfont "Sans Serif" 9.;
> #P window linecount 1;
> #P newex 180 150 32 196617 print;
> #P flonum 136 97 35 9 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
> #P flonum 139 150 35 9 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
> #P flonum 98 150 35 9 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
> #P number 98 97 35 9 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
> #N pp 1 c1 wtf 0 127;
> #P newobj 98 126 92 196617 pp 1 c1 wtf 0 127;
> #P window setfont "Sans Serif" 18.;
> #P window linecount 4;
> #P comment 230 71 153 196626 What is happening here? A third  
> outlet? Bad tracking?;
> #P connect 2 0 1 0;
> #P connect 5 0 1 0;
> #P connect 1 0 3 0;
> #P connect 1 1 4 0;
> #P connect 1 2 6 0;
> #P pop;
>


Thanks for the response. I'm unclear - what are you quoting from here? An email from someone at Cycling?

In any case, that's interesting behind-the-scenes info, but

a) it doesn't explain why there's a third, undocumented outlet labeled "dumpout" that seems to do nothing and

b) more importantly, I don't see how this is still backwards compatible. Perhaps something is made clear in the "example above" that this writer alludes to. If so, could you post that as well?

Am 11.12.2006 um 20:44 schrieb Leigh Marble:

> a) it doesn't explain why there's a third, undocumented outlet 

> labeled "dumpout" that seems to do nothing and

The dumpout outlet is there because pp became a new-style object with 

attributes (a la Jitter, pattr, etc.). Dumpout is used to report the 

> b) more importantly, I don't see how this is still backwards 

> compatible. Perhaps something is made clear in the "example above" 

> that this writer alludes to. If so, could you post that as well?

> a) it doesn't explain why there's a third, undocumented outlet  
> labeled "dumpout" that seems to do nothing and

The dumpout outlet is there because pp became a new-style object with  
attributes (a la Jitter, pattr, etc.). Dumpout is used to report the  
value of the attributes.

> b) more importantly, I don't see how this is still backwards  
> compatible. Perhaps something is made clear in the "example above"  
> that this writer alludes to. If so, could you post that as well?

Note to Cycling: please update your documentation! In order to work as advertised, pp now requires this external feedback loop through a number box. Such a change ought to be included in the docs, if not highlighted!

pp (plug-in parameter) object MESSED UP in 4.6 ???