peripatitis

Hi i am making a small patch , with the intend to use it within 

a poly~ using groove and manipulating its loop points.

The intention is to use it as some short of an oscilator playing back in hight speeds , not unlike a granular patch.

However once in a while the patch either stops playing , or i see the waveform loops continue to update however i get no sound out of it.

I am probably not very clear in my explanations :), thus i

simplified and tried to clear it up , if someone could check to see if he can reproduce the problem.

This hapens usualy in very high speed playback (freq scale on the patch) with very small step values.

Hi i am making a small patch , with the intend to use it within 
a poly~ using groove and manipulating its loop points.
The intention is to use it as some short of an oscilator playing back in hight speeds , not unlike a granular patch.

I am probably not very clear in my explanations :), thus i
simplified and tried to clear it up , if someone could check to see if he can reproduce the problem.

problem-with-a-patch-based-on-groove

> Hi i am making a small patch , with the intend to use it within a

> poly~ using groove and manipulating its loop points. The intention is

> to use it as some short of an oscilator playing back in hight speeds

> However once in a while the patch either stops playing , or i see the

> waveform loops continue to update however i get no sound out of it.

> This hapens usualy in very high speed playback (freq scale on the

Haven't listened to your patch nor analyzed it completely, but two 

things come to mind. If you change the loop points randomly, you might 

get them too narrow. If they are the same by accident, they might stop 

You could get rid of one of the trapezoid~s by the way...

In general it would be wise to further simplify the patch. Instead of 

controlling the loop points with your random generator, do it first by 

hand, then if it works, later add the random functions.

Also I doubt that bondo is the best method to control order of 

execution. Its better to do it with well layed out triggers. I am 

patching since almost 20 years and I am not sure if I ever needed bondo...

Last, not least, your screen seems to be much bigger than mine, 

scrolling isn't fun and doesn't simplify the reading either... ;-)

Greg schrieb:
> Hi i am making a small patch , with the intend to use it within a
> poly~ using groove and manipulating its loop points. The intention is
> to use it as some short of an oscilator playing back in hight speeds
> , not unlike a granular patch.
>
> However once in a while the patch either stops playing , or i see the
> waveform loops continue to update however i get no sound out of it.
...
> This hapens usualy in very high speed playback (freq scale on the
> patch) with very small step values.

Haven't listened to your patch nor analyzed it completely, but two 
things come to mind. If you change the loop points randomly, you might 
get them too narrow. If they are the same by accident, they might stop 
looping.

In general it would be wise to further simplify the patch. Instead of 
controlling the loop points with your random generator, do it first by 
hand, then if it works, later add the random functions.
Also I doubt that bondo is the best method to control order of 
execution. Its better to do it with well layed out triggers. I am 
patching since almost 20 years and I am not sure if I ever needed bondo...

Last, not least, your screen seems to be much bigger than mine, 
scrolling isn't fun and doesn't simplify the reading either... ;-)

-- 
Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
--_____-----------|--------------
--(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
-- _|_)----|-----()--------------
----------()--------www.ccmix.com


You are right about the loop duration getting too small , 

i've noticed sometimes that it goes to zero.

However only a few times times does it stop, without starting 

again, if i don't choose new points from the waveform.

There are other times when although the loop points continue changing (without beeing too small), or that's what the waveform~ seems to be doing, i stop getting audio and i need to close the patch and open it again to get any sound.

I'll try to take out the random functions) and see what goes on.

Indeed i use bondo quite a lot, i'll try to see if i can change this habbit , stil a lot to learn :)

My laptop has a resolution of 1400 by 1050 , i never though that it could create problems in other monitors , sorry for that .

Thanks a lot for your reply .
You are right about the loop duration getting too small , 
i've noticed sometimes that it goes to zero.
However only a few times times does it stop, without starting 
again, if i don't choose new points from the waveform.

I'll try to take out the random functions) and see what goes on.
Indeed i use bondo quite a lot, i'll try to see if i can change this habbit , stil a lot to learn :)

> My laptop has a resolution of 1400 by 1050 , i never though that it

> could create problems in other monitors , sorry for that .

;-) I have a 12" Powerbook, its still quite convenient with 1024x768 as

it forces me to streamline my user interface to that space, which is

always better than spreading all across a bigger screen...

I might switch to 800x600 in the future to become even better... ;-)

And good luck with debugging, debugging takes longer than patching, but

Greg schrieb:
> My laptop has a resolution of 1400 by 1050 , i never though that it
> could create problems in other monitors , sorry for that .

;-) I have a 12" Powerbook, its still quite convenient with 1024x768 as
it forces me to streamline my user interface to that space, which is
always better than spreading all across a bigger screen...
I might switch to 800x600 in the future to become even better... ;-)

And good luck with debugging, debugging takes longer than patching, but
it also teaches better... ;-)

-- 
Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
--_____-----------|--------------
--(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
-- _|_)----|-----()--------------
----------()--------www.ccmix.com

Did you ever try a software called CPS by Niels Gorisse?

It's free now, and it's a sort of max-msp-like kind of program for audio and 

It is a very impressing piece of software, especially if you consider that 

only the author (just one person) worked on it to build it.

CPS has a special feature that should be introduced in Max 5 : when 

something is not working (mostly because of improper settings by the user) 

or the audio chain shows problems (nothing comes out of the speakers; no 

sound; wrong values given to some externals) or other issues, the objects 

related to the problem change in colour (besides the warnings and error 

messages that appear on the status window) becoming green, and so showing 

the user what is the problem, and making debugging a lot easier..

To Cycling74: what about introducing a feature like that on Max 5?

Subject: Re: [maxmsp] Re: problem with a patch based on groove

>> My laptop has a resolution of 1400 by 1050 , i never though that it

>> could create problems in other monitors , sorry for that .

> ;-) I have a 12" Powerbook, its still quite convenient with 1024x768 as

> it forces me to streamline my user interface to that space, which is

> always better than spreading all across a bigger screen...

> I might switch to 800x600 in the future to become even better... ;-)

> And good luck with debugging, debugging takes longer than patching, but

Did you ever try a software called CPS by Niels Gorisse?
It's free now, and it's a sort of max-msp-like kind of program for audio and 
midi processing.
It is a very impressing piece of software, especially if you consider that 
only the author (just one person) worked on it to build it.
CPS has a special feature that should be introduced in Max 5 : when 
something is not working (mostly because of improper settings by the user) 
or the audio chain shows problems (nothing comes out of the speakers; no 
sound; wrong values given to some externals) or other issues, the objects 
related to the problem change in colour (besides the warnings and error 
messages that appear on the status window) becoming green, and so showing 
the user what is the problem, and making debugging a lot easier..
To Cycling74: what about introducing a feature like that on Max 5?
bye,

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stefan Tiedje" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: [maxmsp] Re: problem with a patch based on groove

> Greg schrieb:
>> My laptop has a resolution of 1400 by 1050 , i never though that it
>> could create problems in other monitors , sorry for that .
>
> ;-) I have a 12" Powerbook, its still quite convenient with 1024x768 as
> it forces me to streamline my user interface to that space, which is
> always better than spreading all across a bigger screen...
> I might switch to 800x600 in the future to become even better... ;-)
>
> And good luck with debugging, debugging takes longer than patching, but
> it also teaches better... ;-)
>
> Stefan
>
> -- 
> Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
> --_____-----------|--------------
> --(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
> -- _|_)----|-----()--------------
> ----------()--------www.ccmix.com
>
>


> CPS has a special feature that should be introduced in Max 5 : when 

> something is not working (mostly because of improper settings by the 

> user) or the audio chain shows problems (nothing comes out of the 

> speakers; no sound; wrong values given to some externals) or other 

> issues, the objects related to the problem change in colour (besides the 

> warnings and error messages that appear on the status window) becoming 

> green, and so showing the user what is the problem, and making debugging 

> To Cycling74: what about introducing a feature like that on Max 5?

If you can switch it off... Imagine you sit in a performance and have no 

sound, though its a minor problem and wouldn't affect the result. In 

contrary, I'd need a way to reset a complete DSP chain including 

loadbangs, to get patches back with blown filters or feedback lines. At 

the moment audio will stop and the only way to get back is to reload the 

Coloring of objects which spit out an error message would be nice 

though, or at least a way to find them in complex patches, also coloring 

parts of blown DSP chains would be really nice...

But as I heard there are new aids for debuggin' in Max 5...

Carlo Laurenzi schrieb:
> CPS has a special feature that should be introduced in Max 5 : when 
> something is not working (mostly because of improper settings by the 
> user) or the audio chain shows problems (nothing comes out of the 
> speakers; no sound; wrong values given to some externals) or other 
> issues, the objects related to the problem change in colour (besides the 
> warnings and error messages that appear on the status window) becoming 
> green, and so showing the user what is the problem, and making debugging 
> a lot easier..
> To Cycling74: what about introducing a feature like that on Max 5?

If you can switch it off... Imagine you sit in a performance and have no 
sound, though its a minor problem and wouldn't affect the result. In 
contrary, I'd need a way to reset a complete DSP chain including 
loadbangs, to get patches back with blown filters or feedback lines. At 
the moment audio will stop and the only way to get back is to reload the 
patch...

Coloring of objects which spit out an error message would be nice 
though, or at least a way to find them in complex patches, also coloring 
parts of blown DSP chains would be really nice...

Just a coloring of the objects which spit out an error message is what I 

was trying to sponsor as a new feature to be introduced in Max 5..

Imagine that the object, or as you say a part of a complex patch (it's in 

these cases that a feature like that would be very useful), stays coloured 

until you type in the correct messages or values (if one dials values out of 

functional range, for example.. How may times one has to go back to see the 

help patch of an object because of having forgotten if it needs to dial in 

milliseconds or seconds, a value within a range 0-1 ore 0-100, etc...?) and 

then regains the original default colour without having to reset the Dsp 

Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 9:46 AM

Subject: Re: [maxmsp] Re: problem with a patch ... Debugging and Max 5

> If you can switch it off... Imagine you sit in a performance and have no 

> sound, though its a minor problem and wouldn't affect the result. In 

> contrary, I'd need a way to reset a complete DSP chain including 

> loadbangs, to get patches back with blown filters or feedback lines. At 

> the moment audio will stop and the only way to get back is to reload the 

> Coloring of objects which spit out an error message would be nice though, 

> or at least a way to find them in complex patches, also coloring parts of 

> blown DSP chains would be really nice...

> But as I heard there are new aids for debuggin' in Max 5...

Just a coloring of the objects which spit out an error message is what I 
was trying to sponsor as a new feature to be introduced in Max 5..
Imagine that the object, or as you say a part of a complex patch (it's in 
these cases that a feature like that would be very useful), stays coloured 
until you type in the correct messages or values (if one dials values out of 
functional range, for example..  How may times one has to go back to see the 
help patch of an object because of having forgotten if it needs to dial in 
milliseconds or seconds, a value within a range 0-1 ore 0-100, etc...?) and 
then regains the original default colour without having to reset the Dsp 
chain?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stefan Tiedje" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 9:46 AM
Subject: Re: [maxmsp] Re: problem with a patch ... Debugging and Max 5

>
> If you can switch it off... Imagine you sit in a performance and have no 
> sound, though its a minor problem and wouldn't affect the result. In 
> contrary, I'd need a way to reset a complete DSP chain including 
> loadbangs, to get patches back with blown filters or feedback lines. At 
> the moment audio will stop and the only way to get back is to reload the 
> patch...
>
> Coloring of objects which spit out an error message would be nice though, 
> or at least a way to find them in complex patches, also coloring parts of 
> blown DSP chains would be really nice...
>
> But as I heard there are new aids for debuggin' in Max 5...
>
> Stefan
>
> -- 
> Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
> --_____-----------|--------------
> --(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
> -- _|_)----|-----()--------------
> ----------()--------www.ccmix.com
>


Well i've sort of solved the issue with the loop points ( i have added by trial and error an offset of 100ms) , however i still don't unerstand why it gets this behaviour, in a simple patch i tried out where i manualy was changing the loop points i could get it play properly with even 1 or 2 ms of a loop duration.

Nevertheless i've made now a bigger patch using also poly and i was wondering if there is a way to smoothly change filter characteristics , for example go from a low pass to a bandpass filter.

At the moment i am using svf~ and i thought about crossfading its outputs but i don't think it will work .

Could this work perhaps with biquad , by interpolating the coeefficients ?

And here is the patch , granted no anything special but 

under certain circumstances i can get nice results :)

and the subpatch (save as Groove_oscil3~)

Nevertheless i've made now a bigger patch using also poly and i was wondering if there is a way to smoothly change filter characteristics , for example go from a low pass to a bandpass filter.
At the moment i am using svf~ and i thought about crossfading its outputs but i don't think it will work .
Could this work perhaps with biquad , by interpolating the coeefficients ?

And here is the patch , granted no anything special but 
under certain circumstances i can get nice results :)