Forums > MaxMSP

prototypes including data

November 20, 2006 | 9:53 am

Is anyone else having problems with prototypes being saved as if
"Include Data" is checked, despite the fact that it isn’t? If I make a
message box or comment, change it’s color, and then Save a Prototype,
whenever I use that prototype the data in the message box or comment at
the time of saving is also restored. This happens even though "Include
Data" is not checked when I save the prototype.

Is anyone else experiencing this? Is the saveprototype message to
thisobject broken maybe? I hope I haven’t misunderstood what "Include
Data" is supposed to do. I’m using Max 4.6.2 with OS X 10.4.8 on a 2×2
G5.



jml
November 20, 2006 | 5:35 pm

"include data" refers to attribute/argument-based data that you may have used to set your object up (via its inspector or otherwise) before saving it as a prototype.

with messagebox, the text that you type in falls under the category of "settings" you apply in order to create a prototype. this behavior is considered a *feature*, rather than a bug.

if you want to save a configured messagebox with it’s color, simply don’t type in text to it.

jl


November 20, 2006 | 10:11 pm

On Nov 20, 2006, at 9:35 AM, jLubow wrote:
> "include data" refers to attribute/argument-based data that you may
> have used to set your object up (via its inspector or otherwise)
> before saving it as a prototype.

Well, the inspector for message box is a text field that lets you set
the message text. So under this logic shouldn’t an unchecked "Include
Data" prevent it from saving the text in the message box?

> with messagebox, the text that you type in falls under the category of
> "settings" you apply in order to create a prototype. this behavior is
> considered a *feature*, rather than a bug.

Does anyone else see this behavior as a bug rather than a feature?
Doesn’t always saving the message box text for a prototype render
prototypes mostly useless for message? By that I mean, if I wanted to
insert a message with specific text already in it, wouldn’t a Clipping
be the appropriate means of doing so?

It’s also contrary to the way prototypes work on other objects, like
number box. If I save a prototype for number with a gold background,
utilizing that prototype then renders any number box gold. If I had
saved that prototype with "Include Data" checked while the number box
read 41 then using it would render a number box gold as well as set
it’s value to 41.

> if you want to save a configured messagebox with it’s color, simply
> don’t type in text to it.

But this doesn’t do what I want or would expect. Doing this will save
a prototype with blank data, so upon using it the text that was in my
message box prior to applying the prototype gets clobbered leaving me
with a blank and colored message.

What I’m actually doing is cleaning up a patch that I made. In the
process of cleaning it up I am copying and placing parts of my patch
into a new patch that looks prettier. The new patch has a background
color other than white so after pasting objects from the original patch
into the new patch I need to change the color(s) of various comments /
messages so they can be read. Unfortunately prototypes for these
objects actually behave more like clippings, making it so I have to
retype everything after the prototype clobbers what the object
previously had in it.



jml
November 20, 2006 | 11:44 pm

> What I’m actually doing is cleaning up a patch that I made.

ah, ok.
i see what you mean, now.
IMHO,
considering [messagebox]‘s extensive features within max, i find it more handy to utilize certain prototyped messages over and over again than certain colors.
i suppose if you need a specific color (for anything), you can certainly change the defaults, right?

because of the way text is (usually) entered into [messagebox], i don’t think it was considered to be external data, but rather object-configuration.
yet i can only speculate in this case.

> It’s also contrary to the way prototypes work on other objects, like
> number box.

but it’s sort of slippery.
because if you enter values into [number], you have to either
1. have the patcher locked (User)
2. control-click-dragged to change the value
3. have delivered the value from outside of the object

except for the latter (which you still have to set), it’s not the case with [messagebox].

> so upon using it the text that was in my message box prior to applying the
> prototype gets clobbered leaving me with a blank and colored message.

granted, "clobbering the prototypes" is a special case. :)

jl


November 21, 2006 | 11:12 pm

Dave Watson wrote:
> Well, the inspector for message box is a text field that lets you set
> the message text. So under this logic shouldn’t an unchecked
> "Include Data" prevent it from saving the text in the message box?

obviously no!

> Does anyone else see this behavior as a bug rather than a feature?

I can’t imagine…

> Doesn’t always saving the message box text for a prototype render
> prototypes mostly useless for message? By that I mean, if I wanted
> to insert a message with specific text already in it, wouldn’t a
> Clipping be the appropriate means of doing so?

Clippings are for many objects, prototypes for single UI objects,
elsewise not too much of a difference, but prototypes are much easier to
place and change…

> It’s also contrary to the way prototypes work on other objects, like
> number box.

???

> If I save a prototype for number with a gold background, utilizing
> that prototype then renders any number box gold. If I had saved that
> prototype with "Include Data" checked while the number box read 41
> then using it would render a number box gold as well as set it’s
> value to 41.

But that wouldn’t mean if you reload the patch its still on 41, it will
not be…

Prototypes are a help for patching, it has absolutely nothing to do with
initializing parts of a patch for later use…

>> if you want to save a configured messagebox with it’s color, simply
>> don’t type in text to it.
>
> But this doesn’t do what I want or would expect. Doing this will
> save a prototype with blank data, so upon using it the text that was
> in my message box prior to applying the prototype gets clobbered
> leaving me with a blank and colored message.

> What I’m actually doing is cleaning up a patch that I made. In the
> process of cleaning it up I am copying and placing parts of my patch
> into a new patch that looks prettier. The new patch has a
> background color other than white so after pasting objects from the
> original patch into the new patch I need to change the color(s) of
> various comments / messages so they can be read.

Aah, you should have started with that. That gives an idea what you want
to do… Prototypes where not intended to help out with that, they are
only replacing the object with the prototype…

> Unfortunately prototypes for these objects actually behave more like
> clippings, making it so I have to retype everything after the
> prototype clobbers what the object previously had in it.

For tasks like that you can use the universal object. That way you can
set the colors of all similar objects: Or for the number box use "paste
replace" to replace it with a different one…

#P window setfont "Sans Serif" 9.;
#P window linecount 1;
#P message 189 233 93 196617 message color 3;
#B color 1;
#P number 250 83 35 9 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P number 203 83 35 9 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P number 156 83 35 9 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P number 109 83 35 9 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P number 62 83 35 9 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P message 50 233 133 196617 number brgb 255 127 127;
#B color 1;
#P message 359 162 56 196617 message 5;
#B color 1;
#P message 287 162 56 196617 message 4;
#B color 1;
#P message 215 162 56 196617 message 3;
#B color 1;
#P message 143 162 56 196617 message 2;
#B color 1;
#P message 71 162 56 196617 message 1;
#B color 1;
#P newex 60 284 50 196617 universal;
#P connect 12 0 0 0;
#P connect 6 0 0 0;
#P window clipboard copycount 13;


Stefan Tiedje————x——-
–_____———–|————–
–(_|_ —-|—–|—–()——-
– _|_)—-|—–()————–
———-()——–www.ccmix.com


Viewing 5 posts - 1 through 5 (of 5 total)