Jimbob

I'll start by saying I am a newbie although I've been a long time 'dabbler' into the world of MAX.

However, I've never really found quite what I'm looking for (that's partly because I'm not sure what that is).

I have since discovered PWGL which looks very useful indeed as what I'm interested in is working with computers to produce scores that can be played by musicians. I'm not concerned with 'sound synthesis' as such or making plug ins or lots of the other wonderful things that you can do with MAX/MSP.

I've read that you can work with scores in MAX and I'm wondering how flexible this is and what peoples thoughts are on working with algorithmic processes in MAX to produce scores. As opposed to producing more 'electronic' based music. PWGL for example seems built with scores specifically in mind (as does OM).

I'd much prefer to work with MAX as the support is far better and the program is much better developed. I also already know a little about it whereas PWGL looks fairly complex.

Any thoughts, comments, insults etc greatly appreciated.

I have since discovered PWGL which looks very useful indeed as what I'm interested in is working with computers to produce scores that can be played by musicians.  I'm not concerned with 'sound synthesis' as such or making plug ins or lots of the other wonderful things that you can do with MAX/MSP.

I've read that you can work with scores in MAX and I'm wondering how flexible this is and what peoples thoughts are on working with algorithmic processes in MAX to produce scores.  As opposed to producing more 'electronic' based music.  PWGL for example seems built with scores specifically in mind (as does OM). 

I'd much prefer to work with MAX as the support is far better and the program is much better developed.  I also already know a little about it whereas PWGL looks fairly complex.

pwgl-uses-compared-to-max

I have been a long time Max user but have been disappointed

with its ability to do notation or generate scores. There is a 

Java based notation external called Maxscore

http://www.algomusic.com/maxscore/index.html

to render scores.It is not free but does have a 30 demo 

period. Although it does the job I found it a bit cumbersome to use.

I have been digging into PWGL. I must say it looks like it

has a lot of potential. Trying to get up to speed on how it 

works is a slow process. It has a lot of great functions for 

mapping 2d data on to pitch spaces to create gestures and 

phrases. But I feel its interface is not the most intuitive. 

PWGL uses LISP, and in order to do any deep work you have to 

learn it. This presents a steep learning curve in order to 

really make PWGL a useful composition tool.

Lately, I have been exploring Common Music...

http://commonmusic.sourceforge.net/#documentation

It is by far the most flexible environment for algorithmically

generated scores. It has a very useful library for mapping 

and transformation of data. The latest version also 

integrates lillypond which allows you to create notated scores. 

It uses LISP, but also supports a simpler scripting language 

that is much easier to learn. If you are interested you should 

check out "Notes From the Metalevel", it is a great book on 

I have been a long time Max user but have been disappointed
with its ability to do notation or generate scores. There is a 
Java based notation external called Maxscorehttp://www.algomusic.com/maxscore/index.html It uses Lilypond
to render scores.It is not free but does have a 30 demo 
period. Although it does the job I found it a bit cumbersome to use. 

I have been digging into PWGL. I must say it looks like it
has a lot of potential. Trying to get up to speed on how it 
works is a slow process. It has a lot of great functions for 
mapping 2d data on to pitch spaces to create gestures and 
phrases. But I feel its interface is not the most intuitive. 
PWGL uses LISP, and in order to do any deep work you have to 
learn it. This presents a steep learning curve in order to 
really make PWGL a useful composition tool.

Lately, I have been exploring Common Music...http://commonmusic.sourceforge.net/#documentation
It is by far the most flexible environment for algorithmically
generated scores. It has a very useful library for mapping 
and transformation of data. The latest version also 
integrates lillypond which allows you to create notated scores. 
It uses LISP, but also supports a simpler scripting language 
that is much easier to learn. If you are interested you should 
check out "Notes From the Metalevel", it is a great book on 
using Common Music.

Thanks that's very helpful. I've just had a quick look at Common Music and installed it. Is there any manual do you know other than the "Dictionary" and "Notes from the Meta Level"? I don't seem to be able to find anything just to get me going....

I just found out about Maxscore but haven't had a chance to look at it yet.

Thanks that's very helpful.  I've just had a quick look at Common Music and installed it.  Is there any manual do you know other than the "Dictionary" and "Notes from the Meta Level"?  I don't seem to be able to find anything just to get me going....

Actually, I found this doing a search of "Notes from the 

Metalevel". It appears to be an on line version of the book!

It looks like it may be a bit older that the current version

that is published. But would still have lots of good stuff.

http://www.music.mcgill.ca/~ferguson/Notes%20from%20the%20Metalevel/nm/00/contents.html

The dictionary lists all the functions that supported by 

Common Music. I use it as reference when looking for something

that does what I am trying to do. Common Music comes with a lot 

of great examples. Once you install it, look under Help->Examples.

I pretty much learned how to use it by going through the examples.

It also supports spectral composition, and csound scores.

Actually, I found this doing a search of "Notes from the 
Metalevel". It appears to be an on line version of the book!
It looks like it may be a bit older that the current version
that is published. But would still have lots of good stuff.http://www.music.mcgill.ca/~ferguson/Notes%20from%20the%20Metalevel/nm/00/contents.html
Definitely check that out. 

The dictionary lists all the functions that supported by 
Common Music. I use it as reference when looking for something
that does what I am trying to do. Common Music comes with a lot 
of great examples. Once you install it, look under Help->Examples.
I pretty much learned how to use it by going through the examples.

It also supports spectral composition, and csound scores.


I noticed that the examples in the online book are in LISP.

The examples that come with CM are in SAL. SAL is a simpler

language to learn. I would go through the examples first.

I noticed that the examples in the online book are in LISP.
The examples that come with CM are in SAL. SAL is a simpler
language to learn. I would go through the examples first.


I'm very sorry, but I have disabled the link to this document. This is from an old version of the book, which was subsequently removed by Heinrich Taube when it was published. It is copyright material that I didn't realize was still on my site.

Thanks Anthony. I'm looking at Common Music now. It does seem a lot easier to make sense of than anything else I've looked at.

However, at the moment I don't seem to be able to get any sound whatsoever despite it seeing my Firewire 410 fine.

Thanks Anthony.  I'm looking at Common Music now.  It does seem a lot easier to make sense of than anything else I've looked at.

PWGL uses compared to MAX