Question if this app has been created

Aug 24, 2008 at 10:33pm

Question if this app has been created

There is a very interesting type of sequencer that is built on intervals. For instance, you have the digits from 1-10….1-9 are
intervals between steps, and 0′s are rests. You can have something like 167 steps which then repeat. The most important thing however is that this sequencer is triggered from the keyboard. I have been using this technique since 1983 and it has given me great results in composing music. I would like to bring it to the MIDI age and I’m thinking MAX/MSP is the best vehicle. I have no desire to “own” the application, although in a way this writing here is a type of copyright in case someone creates the application and charges a huge fee for it.

To hear me creating music with this, check out some of the mp3s at
http://www.rspearson.com/rsmusic.html. The song photomultiplier uses it, as do many others.

I’m very serious about creating this or using it once someone creates it. Thanks.

Robert

#39426
Aug 25, 2008 at 2:39am

Except that it, uh, isn’t.

On Aug 24, 2008, at 3:33 PM, Robert Pearson wrote:

> although in a way this writing here is a type of copyright in case
> someone creates the application and charges a huge fee for it.

barry threw
Media Art and Technology

San Francisco, CA
Work: 857-544-3967
Email: bthrew (at) gmail (dot) com
Web: http://www.barrythrew.com

#138862
Aug 27, 2008 at 4:09pm

Quote: barry threw wrote on Mon, 25 August 2008 04:39
—————————————————-
> Except that it, uh, isn’t.
>
> On Aug 24, 2008, at 3:33 PM, Robert Pearson wrote:
>
> > although in a way this writing here is a type of copyright in case
> > someone creates the application and charges a huge fee for it.
—————————————————-

Write it down, then mail it to yourself recorded delivery and keep it. That’ll stand up much better than a post on this list. If it’s worth that much to you anyway.

#138863
Aug 27, 2008 at 5:24pm

Well, I’m actually not that interested in building it myself.
I don’t presently own a copy of Max and I’ve already done
a lot in the form of software (I’ve owned and ran ParaMind Brainstorming Software since 1992). I am mostly wanting to
know if it’s been programmed before, or if anyone would
like to program it, I will support them/help them in every
way I can.

Robert

#138864
Aug 27, 2008 at 5:27pm

Quote: fairesigneaumachiniste wrote on Wed, 27 August 2008 18:09
—————————————————-
> Write it down, then mail it to yourself recorded delivery and keep it. That’ll stand up much better than a post on this list. If it’s worth that much to you anyway.
—————————————————-

First of all, you cannot copyright an idea.

Copyright covers the *concrete*expression* of an idea.

If you want to copyright an application, you have to write the application first.

Period.

Second, the “send yourself a sealed envelope” idea, though commonly promulgated, won’t stand up in court in most jurisdictions. It certainly won’t stand up in the US. Cf. < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright#.22Poor_man.27s_copyright.22>

#138865
Aug 27, 2008 at 7:19pm

> Write it down, then mail it to yourself recorded delivery and keep it.

Except that doesn’t do anything either.

You can’t copyright ideas, only the expression of that idea.

This comes up every time there is a discussion about copyright by
people that don’t know anything about copyright. Mailing a letter to
yourself has absolutely no effect on your legal standing with copy
protected works. Your copyright, under US law, comes into effect as
soon as a work is committed to a medium.

> That’ll stand up much better than a post on this list. If it’s worth
> that much to you anyway.

A post on this list is COMPLETELY CONTRARY to keeping any kind of
rights over IP. Confidential information for IP purposes has to be
TREATED AS CONFIDENTIAL. Otherwise it does not stand up.

But, thats almost a moot point. The thing that gets me is the audacity
of someone posting an idea to a PUBLIC MAILING LIST, with the
provision that they now own it and anyone that would implement it and
charge or their hard work couldn’t…because, uh, “I posted it first.”
This goes against the entire spirit of such a forum for free
communication of ideas and mutual development of composition and music
technology. Give me a fucking break. Either make your own
implementation, or pay someone some money to do it for you, or else
don’t come crying when some programmer decided they actually want to
make a living around here.

barry threw
Media Art and Technology

San Francisco, CA
Work: 857-544-3967
Email: bthrew (at) gmail (dot) com
Web: http://www.barrythrew.com

#138866
Aug 27, 2008 at 7:48pm

In the UK it stands up well as proof of a DESIGN in the way that a patent would be used. I assumed that the OP had a design rather than just an idea.

P.s. It was light hearted, if I actually thought a design was worth while I’d patent the damn thing. :)

#138867
Aug 27, 2008 at 10:00pm

On Aug 27, 2008, at 12:48 PM, fairesigneaumachiniste wrote:
> In the UK it stands up well as proof of a DESIGN in the way that a
> patent would be used. I assumed that the OP had a design rather than
> just an idea.

It would certainly stand as a public disclosure. I don’t know about
the UK, but in the US public disclosure has consequences regarding the
patentability of an invention.

-C

Chris Muir
cbm@well.com

http://www.xfade.com

#138868
Aug 28, 2008 at 5:02am

fairesigneaumachiniste schrieb:
> In the UK it stands up well as proof of a DESIGN in the way that a
> patent would be used. I assumed that the OP had a design rather than
> just an idea.

The main requirement for getting a patent is, that it wasn’t published
before. That is also a way to prevent patenting. I heard of one case
where a patent was refused, because that idea had been published in a
Donald Duck comic strip before…

This specific idea isn’t new either, and it would be pretty easy to
implement in Max. Any average Maxer could do it. Thus in itself it
wouldn’t be patentable, but the patch would be copyrightable…

It would be an ideal project to start learning Max. Its much easier and
much more fun than coding this sort of tool in a normal programming
language…

Stefan


Stefan Tiedje————x——-
–_____———–|————–
–(_|_ —-|—–|—–()——-
– _|_)—-|—–()————–
———-()——–www.ccmix.com

#138869
Aug 29, 2008 at 3:55am

OK, if you really understand what I’m describing, please
point out an application or two that uses the ideas I’m
discussing. I think you’ll find that various elements
are left out, which are vital to the whole thing working
in the way it is supposed to.

#138870
Aug 29, 2008 at 8:17am

On Aug 28, 2008, at 8:55 PM, Robert Pearson wrote:

> OK, if you really understand what I’m describing, please
> point out an application or two that uses the ideas I’m
> discussing.

I have a section in my “Gyre” Max application that has many concepts
in common with your ideas, at least if I understand what you’re
talking about. For example sending 7 repeatedly would start ascending
the circle of fifths. Is this the sort of thing you mean?

In my application I have other ways to generate rests & rhythms other
than using 0 to mean rest, so I use 0 to mean “repeat previous note”.
I have several methods to determine what happens when the accumulated
notes exceed some selected range.

-C

#138871
Aug 29, 2008 at 2:07pm

This is taken from a private email conversation:

I create sequences like this

12462002424210002642864100001624

(we’ll call this the loop)

and for each note I play on the keyboard, when the sequence
starts, it goes in a loop and assigns the 1 to the first key pressed down, the 2 to the second, and so on. If there are 9 different intervals all used in the loop, but only 3 keys held down the program will play the octaves of the notes, so that 123 would be abc, and 456 would be a’b'c’…and so on.

Additional information not in the email: you have to isolate everything I’m talking about to get the full algorithm and why it’s so interesting:

1) the full interval pattern 1-9, and then 0 for rests, is
looped — this creates a living pulsing sequencer
2) the fact that this loop is triggered by an accomplished
or just lucky person’s playing of the loop on the keyboard
3) the fact that the interval loop will do interesting things
if less than the number of original keys are held down that
are in the loop (the loop becomes “intelligent”).

There is something core about this concept, something
about it that relates to the nature of music…it’s like
working at a genetic understanding of what can be good music
structure. Those into “generative music” I think will be
very interested in this.

#138872
Aug 31, 2008 at 12:12pm

Robert Pearson schrieb:
> Those into “generative music” I think will be very interested in
> this.

Yes, this explains much more what you’re after. It sounds very
interesting, and it is your personal way of composing in an improvising
context.
To create such a beast is very easy in Max, I’d say after you’ve gone
through the Max tutorials, it’s a day to implement it. You only need Max
in the beginning to create a Midi version…
You can easily finish a usable version within the 30-day demo period..

The big advantage of creating it yourself is, you can easily modify it
and implement variations on your algorithm. It’s literally a snap…

In can’t encourage you more to just do it. An alternative to Max would
eventually be Pd, the open source variant of Max and though not too
closely as powerful as Max, for that sort of task more than sufficient…

Stefan


Stefan Tiedje————x——-
–_____———–|————–
–(_|_ —-|—–|—–()——-
– _|_)—-|—–()————–
———-()——–www.ccmix.com

#138873
Aug 31, 2008 at 3:26pm

You might find ice.lattice, from iCE Tools, a convenient way to build what you’re after.

#138874

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