question on controlling output levels for a project patch

Nov 29, 2007 at 12:39am

question on controlling output levels for a project patch

Hello all…

Been working on a acoustical analysis project where I have tried to build a patch that does three things….1. work as a real time analyzer that takes in ambient sound levels from a microphone in a room and quantifies the dB level 2. compare the input sound levels with a user predicted sound spectra..and 3. use the comparison of the two sound levels (actual sound in the room vs. a user predicted spectra) to control the output level of a loudspeaker.

My idea is that acoustical consultants could use a real time tool consisting of a microphone, the max patch, and a loudspeaker to accurately play/reproduce/generate a predicted sound level in a room

Some limits of the system as I see it in its present idea are 1. will only work for steady state sound (HVAC noise, traffic from far away, certain industrial sources, etc.) and 2. must be significantly above the background noise in the room (< 10 dB louder in all octave bands)

The idea is that the final version (of the 3 integrated pieces in one patch) will be able to listen (with the RTA), then compare what it is hearing (with a memory bank of user predicted sound spectra), and adjust the output level of a noise generator or sound file playback until the sound heard at the microphone location in the room is at the user predicted level.

My big problem is that I can’t seem to control the output accurately. The RTA works, the comparison between the input level and the predicted level is a very simple mathematical comparison which works, however… the pink noise generator or sound file output programming I have now never seems to accurately control the sound output (in relation to my idea that it should eventually settle at the predicted sound level – it seems to always be too loud)

Sound level control of the output signal – a pink noise generator output to a slider (controlled by the comparison of the heard and predicted spectra) and then out to the amp is what I am currently using to (not) control the level

Here is where my real question is to the max wizards out there comes in… when I put all my integrated pieces together in one patch I cannot control the output level accurately

Can anyone help me with ideas to control the output levels accurately? I am immensely frustrated with my problem solving so far and am drowning in the dread of trying to turn a non-working idea into a thesis. Please help!

Thanks, mark.

#34802
Nov 29, 2007 at 6:08am

Probably there will be folks here that can help. An example patch is very illuminating, just Select All objects and paste into the message (will come up as text that others can try out). I don’t *really* understand what you’re trying to do, but some people here probably will. Max can very likely do what you’re after. The more you tinker the more you figure out… it’s flexible enough to do just about anything, so don’t despair.

–CJ

#117957
Nov 29, 2007 at 2:58pm

hello

thanks for the reply…

as far as tinkering… the limitless flexiblility of max has me tinkered out, cause for me, it seems like a simple matter of control of the output level

can someone pls give me a specific lesson on how to turn the max patch into text… i can go to the patch, select all, copy, but then it will just paste the picture of the patch into word. i cannot paste the copied patch into the forum posting form at all

sorry

thanks for your help,
mark

#117958
Nov 30, 2007 at 8:48am

Mark LoRang schrieb:
> can someone pls give me a specific lesson on how to turn the max
> patch into text… i can go to the patch, select all, copy, but then
> it will just paste the picture of the patch into word.

Max doesn’t need Microshuft, why word? just paste it into the mail…

Another way, but too complicated for me, is to save the patch as text
(menu save as… then choose the format text) This will create a .mxt
file which is a text file…
(Necescary for too old versions of Max to be considered… ;-)

Stefan


Stefan Tiedje————x——-
–_____———–|————–
–(_|_ —-|—–|—–()——-
– _|_)—-|—–()————–
———-()——–www.ccmix.com

#117959
Nov 30, 2007 at 4:15pm

The direct copy and paste doesn’t work on Mac OSX – or at least it
doesn’t on mine (MBPro, OSX 10.4.11, MaxMSP 4.6.3, Mac Mail app.) –
it just pastes the Max patch as a graphic image. I always need to
save open the file as text first, then cut and paste. Perhaps I’m
just doing something wrong?

On Nov 30, 2007, at 1:48 AM, Stefan Tiedje wrote:

> Mark LoRang schrieb:
>> can someone pls give me a specific lesson on how to turn the max
>> patch into text… i can go to the patch, select all, copy, but then
>> it will just paste the picture of the patch into word.
>
> Max doesn’t need Microshuft, why word? just paste it into the mail…
>
> Another way, but too complicated for me, is to save the patch as
> text (menu save as… then choose the format text) This will create
> a .mxt file which is a text file…
> (Necescary for too old versions of Max to be considered… ;-)
>

—-
Steven M. Miller
Professor, Contemporary Music Program
College of Santa Fe

Home < http://pubweb.csf.edu/~smill>
SFIFEM <
http://sfifem.csf.edu>
Atrium Sound Space <
http://atrium.csf.edu>
OVOS <
http://pubweb.csf.edu/~smill/ovos.html>
CMP <
http://www.csf.edu/csf/academics/cmp/index.html>

#117960
Nov 30, 2007 at 4:58pm

>The direct copy and paste doesn’t work on Mac OSX – or at least it
>doesn’t on mine (MBPro, OSX 10.4.11, MaxMSP 4.6.3, Mac Mail app.) –
>it just pastes the Max patch as a graphic image. I always need to
>save open the file as text first, then cut and paste. Perhaps I’m
>just doing something wrong?

it’s not because of osX but because of Mail

I use Eudora (on osX) and this works
best

kasper

Kasper T. Toeplitz
noise, composition, bass, computer

http://www.sleazeArt.com

http://www.myspace.com/sleazeart

#117961
Nov 30, 2007 at 4:58pm

Shift-Paste (i.e. Paste as quotation…). Then decrease the quote level
(Format or Contextual menu).

p

On 30 nov. 07, at 17:15, Steven Miller wrote:

> The direct copy and paste doesn’t work on Mac OSX – or at least it
> doesn’t on mine (MBPro, OSX 10.4.11, MaxMSP 4.6.3, Mac Mail app.) – it
> just pastes the Max patch as a graphic image. I always need to save
> open the file as text first, then cut and paste. Perhaps I’m just
> doing something wrong?

_____________________________
Patrick Delges

Centre de Recherches et de Formation Musicales de Wallonie asbl

http://www.crfmw.be/max

#117962
Nov 30, 2007 at 5:22pm

At 9:15 AM -0700 11/30/07, Steven Miller wrote:
>The direct copy and paste doesn’t work on Mac OSX – or at least it doesn’t on mine (MBPro, OSX 10.4.11, MaxMSP 4.6.3, Mac Mail app.) – it just pastes the Max patch as a graphic image. I always need to save open the file as text first, then cut and paste. Perhaps I’m just doing something wrong?

I think that Max puts a graphic representation as well as a text representation on the clipboard. It’s up to the mail client which representation it will use when pasting. I use Eudora for mail, which has a distinct bias towards textual email, so it pastes the text representation. Apple’s Mail.app pastes the picture instead of the text.

-C


Chris Muir | “There are many futures and only one status quo.
cbm@well.com | This is why conservatives mostly agree,
http://www.xfade.com | and radicals always argue.” – Brian Eno

#117963
Nov 30, 2007 at 5:57pm

This is what resulted from the suggestion below…

On Nov 30, 2007, at 9:58 AM, Patrick Delges wrote:

> Shift-Paste (i.e. Paste as quotation…). Then decrease the quote
> level (Format or Contextual menu).
>
> p

—-
Steven M. Miller
Professor, Contemporary Music Program
College of Santa Fe

Home < http://pubweb.csf.edu/~smill>
SFIFEM <
http://sfifem.csf.edu>
Atrium Sound Space <
http://atrium.csf.edu>
OVOS <
http://pubweb.csf.edu/~smill/ovos.html>
CMP <
http://www.csf.edu/csf/academics/cmp/index.html>

#117964
Nov 30, 2007 at 7:06pm

At 9:22 AM -0800 11/30/07, Chris Muir wrote:
>At 9:15 AM -0700 11/30/07, Steven Miller wrote:
>>The direct copy and paste doesn’t work on Mac OSX – or at least it doesn’t on mine (MBPro, OSX 10.4.11, MaxMSP 4.6.3, Mac Mail app.) – it just pastes the Max patch as a graphic image. I always need to save open the file as text first, then cut and paste. Perhaps I’m just doing something wrong?
>
>I think that Max puts a graphic representation as well as a text representation on the clipboard. It’s up to the mail client which representation it will use when pasting. I use Eudora for mail, which has a distinct bias towards textual email, so it pastes the text representation. Apple’s Mail.app pastes the picture instead of the text.

Plain Clip is an application for the Mac that will convert the clipboard to plain text.

http://www.bluem.net/downloads/plain-clip_en/

There is a Plain Clip plug-in for the Spark hot key framework, also

http://www.shadowlab.org/Software/spark.php

-C


Chris Muir | “There are many futures and only one status quo.
cbm@well.com | This is why conservatives mostly agree,
http://www.xfade.com | and radicals always argue.” – Brian Eno

#117965
Nov 30, 2007 at 8:42pm

And don’t forget yet another option within Max, the Paste as Picture command. It’s great for saving bits of your patch as images, and especially for keeping comments from wrapping weirdly. It makes a bounding rectangle of whatever objects are selected, so it could be any elements within the patch, including non-contiguous. Handy to use for a Help display section, if you don’t want that part interactive.

It saves the image right with the patch, so there’s no external files to worry about … the downside is that it’s a bitmap, so normally-small patches get big quickly. Wonder if there’s some kind of compression that could be applied right within the patch? Not having to deal with external files is nice, as I always seem to forget to include them when moving from computer to computer… ;)

–CJ

#117966
Nov 30, 2007 at 11:04pm

#117967
Nov 30, 2007 at 11:17pm

Steven Miller schrieb:
> The direct copy and paste doesn’t work on Mac OSX – or at least it
> doesn’t on mine (MBPro, OSX 10.4.11, MaxMSP 4.6.3, Mac Mail app.) – it
> just pastes the Max patch as a graphic image. I always need to save open
> the file as text first, then cut and paste. Perhaps I’m just doing
> something wrong?

Ah, didn’t know that, I use Thunderbird since ages…

But what you could do is paste it into a text window in Max, or open as
text, then copy/paste…

Stefan


Stefan Tiedje————x——-
–_____———–|————–
–(_|_ —-|—–|—–()——-
– _|_)—-|—–()————–
———-()——–www.ccmix.com

#117968

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