Forums > MaxMSP

Reaktor – whats your opinion on this program?

December 26, 2008 | 7:34 pm

Hi,

This has probably been brought up before, but I want to be sure before I spend lots of money and massive amount of time with this software.
Is it a bad idea to learn both max and Reaktor? Is it much overlapping between these programs? Should I spend my time with other software instead?
Is reaktor the same quality as Max? (Max is incredible I think)
I want to make my own filters and oscillators, should I maybe look at synthmaker instead of reaktor?
I also want to learn from reverse engineering stuff from the library,
but I think there is a lof of junk there – 1000parameter beat manglers is 100% uninteresting for me…

Do you use both Max and Reaktor?

Cheers


December 26, 2008 | 7:58 pm

marlon brando skrev:
> Hi,
>
> This has probably been brought up before, but I want to be sure before I spend lots of money and massive amount of time with this software.
> Is it a bad idea to learn both max and Reaktor?
I definitely think so, because:
> Is it much overlapping between these programs?
yes there is. Reaktor is by far the app closest to MaxMSP in design, I’d
say.
> Should I spend my time with other software instead?
>
No ;)
> Is reaktor the same quality as Max? (Max is incredible I think)
> I want to make my own filters and oscillators, should I maybe look at synthmaker instead of reaktor?
>
I think you’ll find all the flexibility you are looking for within maxMSP.
> I also want to learn from reverse engineering stuff from the library,
> but I think there is a lof of junk there – 1000parameter beat manglers is 100% uninteresting for me…
>
I’d learn from reverse-engineering the maxMSP forum posts and the
help-files, which are a lot more concise and learning-friendly than
Reaktor.
> Do you use both Max and Reaktor?
>
No, I switched from Reaktor because I found a lot of things about it
work-around-like. Never looked back.

Andreas.


December 26, 2008 | 10:04 pm

Thanks !

So I can make my own filters in MaxMsp like Reaktor Core?

Cool!


December 26, 2008 | 10:21 pm

marlon brando skrev:
> Thanks !
>
> So I can make my own filters in MaxMsp like Reaktor Core?
>
>
it’s more higher-level in MaxMSP, actually, not as difficult to manage…
check out biquad~, filtergraph~ and filtercoeff~ .

You never really said *what* you wanted to build, filter wise, though?

Andreas.


December 26, 2008 | 10:21 pm

Yes.

On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 2:04 PM, marlon brando wrote:

>
> Thanks !
>
> So I can make my own filters in MaxMsp like Reaktor Core?
>
>
> Cool!
>


December 27, 2008 | 2:16 am

Well I use both Reaktor and Max. They compliment each other
very well. Reaktor’s strength is its modular macro library
and user library. It makes building synths much easier than
doing it on Max. MSP is a lower level set of primitives which
means you have to do a lot of work yourself. Sometimes you would
rather spend more time composing, rather than figuring out the
nuts and bolts of a resonante oscillator. That is where Reaktor
shines.

Max on the other hand excels when it comes to designing
control and performance environments. Its ability to easily
map data and input of all types makes it a perfect tool
for prototyping ideas. Above all Max is easier to learn in
and there fore easier to build in. The help system in Max
is fantastic.

So I use Max for my control environment and Reaktor as a VST
in Max. But if I had to choose one, it would be Max.
In the end, it offers the path of least resistance
when it comes to taking the ideas that are in my head, and making
them a reality.


December 27, 2008 | 10:09 am

>Well I use both Reaktor and Max. They compliment each other
>very well. Reaktor’s strength is its modular macro library
>and user library. It makes building synths much easier than
>doing it on Max. MSP is a lower level set of primitives which
>means you have to do a lot of work yourself. Sometimes you would
>rather spend more time composing, rather than figuring out the
>nuts and bolts of a resonante oscillator. That is where Reaktor
>shines.
>
>Max on the other hand excels when it comes to designing
>control and performance environments. Its ability to easily
>map data and input of all types makes it a perfect tool
>for prototyping ideas. Above all Max is easier to learn in
>and there fore easier to build in. The help system in Max
>is fantastic.
>
>So I use Max for my control environment and Reaktor as a VST
>in Max. But if I had to choose one, it would be Max.
>In the end, it offers the path of least resistance
>when it comes to taking the ideas that are in my head, and making
>them a reality.

I can not agree more – I rend to use a little bit of reaktor for
processing (filters etc). It’s very possible that one could write the
same filter(s) in max, but I am not sure max’s (well, msp’s) filters
sound more "polite" to me (those I can make with biquad~ at least)

best

kasper

Kasper T. Toeplitz
noise, composition, bass, computer

http://www.sleazeArt.com

http://www.myspace.com/sleazeart


December 27, 2008 | 10:56 am

I think I want to start with the simplest – 1 pole lowpass filters?
And work my way up.

Cheers


December 27, 2008 | 7:52 pm

Haha, there was a thread that talked about this just last week. Seems a big question(except i think that thread was called, "Is Max/MSP for me?" or something like that). So i’ll just paraphrase my contribution to that thread here:

It used to be that Reaktor was more like a quick toy and Max/MSP was the real powerhouse(of course, I’d still say that’s true because there’s Jitter and Max/MSP has plug-in/standalone functionality as well as MXJ, JS, and tons of GUI-design options along with many other newer perks like integrated docs and things… besides, you can’t beat a software that opens up its API to the user-base with an SDK like the one for Max). But in terms of just audio, Reaktor really improved their capabilities using "core-cell" technology. In all honesty, I still mainly use Max/MSP but because Reaktor has become so extendable, i find myself using Reaktor to this day if not only to make quick and interesting synth sounds, then also to prototype DSP chains i’d like to implement in Max/MSP. Nowadays with newer debug functionalities and the performance/patching modes in Max5, i don’t really need Reaktor as much but it’s definitely capable of most of the same things(i think the only thing missing in Reaktor(aside from being a full-on development environment like Max/MSP), just speaking of audio, is the ability to easily implement FFT(Max/MSP’s pfft makes things much easier).

Hope it helps. (i’m soooo good at "paraphrasing" aren’t i?)


December 27, 2008 | 8:33 pm

Thanks all for very good answers !

There seems to be a very pessimistic attitude on the NI forums about the future of Reaktor. They think it is strange that both Vokator and Spektral delay has been discontinued without this (FFT)technology being implemented in Reaktor. There is also dsp algorithms present in Absynth and Kontakt that is not represented in
Reaktor, which make people think that NI want to focus more on DJ equipments and Guitar amplifiers (where the cash is).
Someone also thinks Reaktor has kind of painted itself into a corner
and needs to be rewritten before Reaktor 6, which meand Reaktor 6 is many years ahead, and maybe there will be no Reaktor 6.

What concerns me most is that there seems to be a lot of issues using Reaktor as VST (in Live) which will be the way I use it.
Do you experience any trouble with Reaktor in Live?

Anyone here swithced from Reaktor to synthmaker?
The thing is, im not at all interested in the vst export of synthmaker.

Cheers


December 27, 2008 | 9:50 pm

and i guarantee that when reaktor 6 comes out, its use of oblong
corners will be a resounding flop.

On Dec 27, 2008, at 3:33 PM, marlon brando wrote:

>
> Thanks all for very good answers !
>
> There seems to be a very pessimistic attitude on the NI forums about
> the future of Reaktor. They think it is strange that both Vokator
> and Spektral delay has been discontinued without this
> (FFT)technology being implemented in Reaktor. There is also dsp
> algorithms present in Absynth and Kontakt that is not represented in
> Reaktor, which make people think that NI want to focus more on DJ
> equipments and Guitar amplifiers (where the cash is).
> Someone also thinks Reaktor has kind of painted itself into a corner
> and needs to be rewritten before Reaktor 6, which meand Reaktor 6 is
> many years ahead, and maybe there will be no Reaktor 6.
>
> What concerns me most is that there seems to be a lot of issues
> using Reaktor as VST (in Live) which will be the way I use it.
> Do you experience any trouble with Reaktor in Live?
>
> Anyone here swithced from Reaktor to synthmaker?
> The thing is, im not at all interested in the vst export of
> synthmaker.
>
>
> Cheers


December 28, 2008 | 7:01 am

marlon brando skrev:
> What concerns me most is that there seems to be a lot of issues using Reaktor as VST (in Live) which will be the way I use it.
>
Any links? I’ve not heard of such problems.
> Do you experience any trouble with Reaktor in Live?
>
None apart from the problems inherent in Reaktor.

Andreas


December 28, 2008 | 1:25 pm

Reaktor is definately fun for being able to edit the vst inside a host. would love to see the new max 5 pluggo function like that. If your going to use it inside of Live its kind of like Racks++. You can get way deep too but never even bothered. For low level stuff id go to max due to the piss poor documentation though. but i guess if you know the idea you can figure it out with reaktor.

im relatively new to Reaktor, ive maybe had it for a few months but ive never had any real problems with the VST inside of Live.


December 28, 2008 | 3:13 pm

I use both , Reaktor has vast user libraries which are quiet inspiring ect…

I do have a preference for MAX though , for the simple reason that I hate Reaktor’s manual it really does falls short . Max Msp has one of the best manuals ever the sad thing is that I have learnt more on Reaktor by reading the MAX/MSP manual.


December 28, 2008 | 3:24 pm

I know, I learn more about Reaktor by rebuilding Reaktor ensembles
in Max!


December 30, 2008 | 6:26 pm

I think Reaktor sounds great and has some great high-level functionality, but I got frustrated when I actually tried to learn how to program in it. It is hard if you already know MSP well to go over to Reaktor just because lots of little, basic things are handled differently. I would love to learn it, although I agree with the above statement that documentation is not so great. Then again, learning max/msp through documentation alone would be a huge pain. There are some fantastic patches that people have built in Reaktor and I use them sometimes and find them inspiring, but for me I just haven’t found the inspiration to learn how to program in it yet.


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