Sending Audio Over Networks

Feb 17, 2007 at 3:19pm

Sending Audio Over Networks

Hi all.
I’ve been playing around with the networking tutorials and networking max data etc. and it all works fine. I was wondering though if there is anyway of networking audio data without the use of the jit.net.send externals etc as i do not own jitter.

Is there a way of transmitting msp data using just max/msp. This would be very usful to me if anyone has any ideas.

Cheers

#30321
Feb 17, 2007 at 3:47pm

olaf matthew’s netsend~/netreceive~ …

#96686
Feb 17, 2007 at 5:53pm

Does anyone have a small example of sending audio over a network with
jit.net.send and jit.net.recv?

On 2/17/07 10:47 AM, “James” wrote:

>
> olaf matthew’s netsend~/netreceive~ …

Cheers
Gary Lee Nelson
Oberlin College
http://www.timara.oberlin.edu/GaryLeeNelson

#96687
Feb 17, 2007 at 6:46pm

there is one called audio-over-networkin the jitter in examples/
jitter-examples/audio

falk

Am 17.02.2007 um 18:53 schrieb Gary Lee Nelson:

> Does anyone have a small example of sending audio over a network with
> jit.net.send and jit.net.recv?
>
>
> On 2/17/07 10:47 AM, “James” wrote:
>
>>
>> olaf matthew’s netsend~/netreceive~ …
>
>
> Cheers
> Gary Lee Nelson
> Oberlin College
> http://www.timara.oberlin.edu/GaryLeeNelson
>
>

#96688
Feb 17, 2007 at 6:51pm

refresh my memory, but isn’t the sound quality usually pretty compromised when streaming like this, or, is it full quality?

#96689
Feb 17, 2007 at 7:07pm

Does this work for TCP? could I connect with a friend over the internet and jam?? man that would rock!

NCRIII

#96690
Feb 17, 2007 at 7:09pm

I found netsend and netreceive but not netsend~ etc. Where are they
located?

On 2/17/07 10:47 AM, “James” wrote:

>
> olaf matthew’s netsend~/netreceive~ …

Cheers
Gary Lee Nelson
Oberlin College
http://www.timara.oberlin.edu/GaryLeeNelson

#96691
Feb 17, 2007 at 7:13pm

I am also interested in this question. Specifically, I will be using a
computer-to-computer connection so there should be little network latency.
My goal is a render farm that includes SuperCollider as well as MSP with all
of the audio collected on one machine for recording.

As soon as I can get jit.send/receive to work on my second machine (see
earlier post), I will be able to run some benchmarks.

On 2/17/07 1:51 PM, “James” wrote:

>
> refresh my memory, but isn’t the sound quality usually pretty compromised when
> streaming like this, or, is it full quality?

Cheers
Gary Lee Nelson
Oberlin College
http://www.timara.oberlin.edu/GaryLeeNelson

#96692
Feb 17, 2007 at 7:24pm

looks like olaf took netsend~ down… I’m guessing it’s probably not stable. The version I have is alpha11, so, yeah that’s probably the case.

#96693
Feb 17, 2007 at 7:25pm

although I haven’t tried it, i was looking at plasq’s wormhole which does kind of the same thing. It’s a vst though.

http://plasq.com/wormhole

#96694
Feb 17, 2007 at 7:26pm

exuse me, vst and audioUnit.

#96695
Feb 17, 2007 at 8:01pm

I just did a benchmark using the audio-over-network example from Jitter
Example. I got the patch going on two machines and got quit unacceptable
glitches with just one audio stream. The latency rose to 7-9 ms. I tested
on an airport network that reaches the outside world via road runner. I
don’t know enough about network traffic to know if my signals are going to
the moon and back to pass between two machines that are a foot apart.

I wasn’t able to a setting on my network control panel that would get them
chatting that way. I’ll keep trying on that one.

I see a firewire option in my network control panel. I wonder if anyone has
tried that. For my current projects, I don’t need to jam with friends
around the world but it would be lovely.

On 2/17/07 2:13 PM, “Gary Lee Nelson” wrote:

> I am also interested in this question. Specifically, I will be using a
> computer-to-computer connection so there should be little network latency.
> My goal is a render farm that includes SuperCollider as well as MSP with all
> of the audio collected on one machine for recording.
>
> As soon as I can get jit.send/receive to work on my second machine (see
> earlier post), I will be able to run some benchmarks.
>
>
> On 2/17/07 1:51 PM, “James” wrote:
>
>>
>> refresh my memory, but isn’t the sound quality usually pretty compromised
>> when
>> streaming like this, or, is it full quality?
>
>
> Cheers
> Gary Lee Nelson
> Oberlin College
> http://www.timara.oberlin.edu/GaryLeeNelson
>
>

Cheers
Gary Lee Nelson
Oberlin College
http://www.timara.oberlin.edu/GaryLeeNelson

#96696
Feb 17, 2007 at 8:32pm

Quote: Gary Lee Nelson wrote on Sat, 17 February 2007 13:01
—————————————————-

> > I am also interested in this question. Specifically, I will be using a
> > computer-to-computer connection so there should be little network latency.
>
—————————————————-

shoutcast~ and oggcast~ do it in compression, but can be unstable and latency is a problem.

btw i think to keep the network inside, use your local ip’s.

#96697
Feb 17, 2007 at 9:25pm

James wrote:
> looks like olaf took netsend~ down… I’m guessing it’s probably not stable. The version I have is alpha11, so, yeah that’s probably the case.

They are here: http://www.nullmedium.de/dev/netsend~/

But I wouldn’t recommend them to my worst enemy! Rather unstable, so to
say. Maybe in a few month (years?) there will be a better version, but
for now that’s working even worse…
It’s really tricky to optimise these kind of externals to work in all
situations. WLAN networks require other optimisations than wired
networks, UPD is different from TCP and so on.

One thing to keep in mind is clock skew. Since two computers never run
perfectly at the same samplerate (even if you set both to 44.1kHz, one
is probably 44.099999 kHz and the other one 44.1001 kHz) buffers will
run empty or overflow after a fairly short amount of time. In the
current version the externals don’t do any magic to overcome this,
future version could, but that’s a whole big research project that would
need time…

Olaf

#96698
Feb 18, 2007 at 12:13pm

Olaf,

Thanks for the update. This is very useful information. I am going to put
this part of my project on hold for a while.

I hope I speak for the list in saying that we appreciate the work you are
doing and all of the wonderful tools you’ve given us in the past.

Cheers
Gary Lee Nelson
Oberlin College
http://www.timara.oberlin.edu/GaryLeeNelson

On 2/17/07 4:25 PM, “Olaf Matthes”

wrote:

> James wrote:
>> looks like olaf took netsend~ down… I’m guessing it’s probably not stable.
>> The version I have is alpha11, so, yeah that’s probably the case.
>
> They are here: http://www.nullmedium.de/dev/netsend~/
>
> But I wouldn’t recommend them to my worst enemy! Rather unstable, so to
> say. Maybe in a few month (years?) there will be a better version, but
> for now that’s working even worse…
> It’s really tricky to optimise these kind of externals to work in all
> situations. WLAN networks require other optimisations than wired
> networks, UPD is different from TCP and so on.
>
> One thing to keep in mind is clock skew. Since two computers never run
> perfectly at the same samplerate (even if you set both to 44.1kHz, one
> is probably 44.099999 kHz and the other one 44.1001 kHz) buffers will
> run empty or overflow after a fairly short amount of time. In the
> current version the externals don’t do any magic to overcome this,
> future version could, but that’s a whole big research project that would
> need time…
>
> Olaf

#96699
Feb 18, 2007 at 5:23pm

#96700
Feb 19, 2007 at 7:26pm

Nicholas C. Raftis III wrote:
> Does this work for TCP? could I connect with a friend over the
> internet and jam?? man that would rock!

For jamming over the internet I used successfully Ninjam. But because
you have to compress the audio in this case, it will eat a lot of CPU. I
ended up using my PC for Ninjam and jammed with Max on the Powerbook…

Stefan


Stefan Tiedje————x——-
–_____———–|————–
–(_|_ —-|—–|—–()——-
– _|_)—-|—–()————–
———-()——–www.ccmix.com

#96701
Feb 20, 2007 at 12:40am

I shall try out Olaf’s externals (cheers for the link) and have a play around. My best bet to be honest though is just simply to use the jit.net.send sitter objects as in the ‘networking max’ tutorials on the home page. I’m sure that this works pretty well. When my next student loan installment comes in at May, Jitter is the 2nd thing on my shopping list…Right under Unreal Tournement 3 and a GeForce 8200 (if they are out by then).

Any other Audio over net work max/msp solutions are greatfully recieved though so keep ‘em coming.

#96702
Feb 20, 2007 at 12:57am

I posted some results of my experiemnts using jit.net.send/recv. Not
entirely satisfactory. Lots of dropped samples with the simplest patch.

On 2/19/07 7:40 PM, “Macca” wrote:

>
> I shall try out Olaf’s externals (cheers for the link) and have a play around.
> My best bet to be honest though is just simply to use the jit.net.send sitter
> objects as in the ‘networking max’ tutorials on the home page. I’m sure that
> this works pretty well. When my next student loan installment comes in at May,
> Jitter is the 2nd thing on my shopping list…Right under Unreal Tournement 3
> and a GeForce 8200 (if they are out by then).
>
> Any other Audio over net work max/msp solutions are greatfully recieved though
> so keep ‘em coming.
> –
> MaccA

Cheers
Gary Lee Nelson
Oberlin College
http://www.timara.oberlin.edu/GaryLeeNelson

#96703
Feb 20, 2007 at 6:40am

FWIW – for the anyware event ( http://share.dj/events/anyware/ ) we
used a modified NSlamm patch in PD to send multichannel audio from
various locations.

it worked pretty well, but we didnt need low latency, and didnt mind
compression at all as we were bandwidth limited.

My PD patch and explanation : http://homepage.mac.com/doktorp/
projects/anyware.html

Im sure you could get something working that is easier on the eyes…
with Max

Not sure if it suites your need, but it might be handy, or.. maybe
even interesting.

On Feb 19, 2007, at 7:57 PM, Gary Lee Nelson wrote:

> I posted some results of my experiemnts using jit.net.send/recv. Not
> entirely satisfactory. Lots of dropped samples with the simplest
> patch.
>
>
> On 2/19/07 7:40 PM, “Macca” wrote:
>
>>
>> I shall try out Olaf’s externals (cheers for the link) and have a
>> play around.
>> My best bet to be honest though is just simply to use the
>> jit.net.send sitter
>> objects as in the ‘networking max’ tutorials on the home page. I’m
>> sure that
>> this works pretty well. When my next student loan installment
>> comes in at May,
>> Jitter is the 2nd thing on my shopping list…Right under Unreal
>> Tournement 3
>> and a GeForce 8200 (if they are out by then).
>>
>> Any other Audio over net work max/msp solutions are greatfully
>> recieved though
>> so keep ‘em coming.
>> –
>> MaccA
>
>
> Cheers
> Gary Lee Nelson
> Oberlin College
> http://www.timara.oberlin.edu/GaryLeeNelson
>
>

v a d e //

http://www.vade.info
abstrakt.vade.info

#96704
Feb 20, 2007 at 7:01am

nSLAM and the xjimmies have been fully ported to max. you can get them here:

http://tot.sat.qc.ca/eng/nslam.html

the nSLAM extras do include standalone example apps of an audio
caster/player over the network.

cheers

jm

vade wrote:
> FWIW – for the anyware event ( http://share.dj/events/anyware/ ) we used
> a modified NSlamm patch in PD to send multichannel audio from various
> locations.
>
> it worked pretty well, but we didnt need low latency, and didnt mind
> compression at all as we were bandwidth limited.
>
> My PD patch and explanation
> : http://homepage.mac.com/doktorp/projects/anyware.html
>
> Im sure you could get something working that is easier on the eyes…
> with Max
>
> Not sure if it suites your need, but it might be handy, or.. maybe even
> interesting.
>
>
>
> On Feb 19, 2007, at 7:57 PM, Gary Lee Nelson wrote:
>
>> I posted some results of my experiemnts using jit.net.send/recv. Not
>> entirely satisfactory. Lots of dropped samples with the simplest patch.
>>
>>
>> On 2/19/07 7:40 PM, “Macca”
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I shall try out Olaf’s externals (cheers for the link) and have a
>>> play around.
>>> My best bet to be honest though is just simply to use the
>>> jit.net.send sitter
>>> objects as in the ‘networking max’ tutorials on the home page. I’m
>>> sure that
>>> this works pretty well. When my next student loan installment comes
>>> in at May,
>>> Jitter is the 2nd thing on my shopping list…Right under Unreal
>>> Tournement 3
>>> and a GeForce 8200 (if they are out by then).
>>>
>>> Any other Audio over net work max/msp solutions are greatfully
>>> recieved though
>>> so keep ‘em coming.
>>> –
>>> MaccA
>>> maxmsp@cycling74.com
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>> Gary Lee Nelson
>> Oberlin College
>> http://www.timara.oberlin.edu/GaryLeeNelson
>>
>>
>> maxmsp@cycling74.com

>
> *v a d e //*
>
> *www.vade.info*
> *abstrakt.vade.info*
>
>
>
>
> ————————————————————————
>

#96705
Feb 20, 2007 at 11:07am

The archive nSlam-2.0.dmg seems to be pd not max osx.

On 2/20/07 2:01 AM, “Jean-Michel Dumas” wrote:

> nSLAM and the xjimmies have been fully ported to max. you can get them here:
>
> http://tot.sat.qc.ca/eng/nslam.html
>
> the nSLAM extras do include standalone example apps of an audio
> caster/player over the network.
>
> cheers
>
> jm
>
> vade wrote:
>> FWIW – for the anyware event ( http://share.dj/events/anyware/ ) we used
>> a modified NSlamm patch in PD to send multichannel audio from various
>> locations.
>>
>> it worked pretty well, but we didnt need low latency, and didnt mind
>> compression at all as we were bandwidth limited.
>>
>> My PD patch and explanation
>> : http://homepage.mac.com/doktorp/projects/anyware.html
>>
>> Im sure you could get something working that is easier on the eyes…
>> with Max
>>
>> Not sure if it suites your need, but it might be handy, or.. maybe even
>> interesting.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 19, 2007, at 7:57 PM, Gary Lee Nelson wrote:
>>
>>> I posted some results of my experiemnts using jit.net.send/recv. Not
>>> entirely satisfactory. Lots of dropped samples with the simplest patch.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/19/07 7:40 PM, “Macca”
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I shall try out Olaf’s externals (cheers for the link) and have a
>>>> play around.
>>>> My best bet to be honest though is just simply to use the
>>>> jit.net.send sitter
>>>> objects as in the ‘networking max’ tutorials on the home page. I’m
>>>> sure that
>>>> this works pretty well. When my next student loan installment comes
>>>> in at May,
>>>> Jitter is the 2nd thing on my shopping list…Right under Unreal
>>>> Tournement 3
>>>> and a GeForce 8200 (if they are out by then).
>>>>
>>>> Any other Audio over net work max/msp solutions are greatfully
>>>> recieved though
>>>> so keep ‘em coming.
>>>> –
>>>> MaccA
>>>> maxmsp@cycling74.com
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Gary Lee Nelson
>>> Oberlin College
>>> http://www.timara.oberlin.edu/GaryLeeNelson
>>>
>>>
>>> maxmsp@cycling74.com

>>
>> *v a d e //*
>>
>> *www.vade.info*
>> *abstrakt.vade.info*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ————————————————————————
>>
>

Cheers
Gary Lee Nelson
Oberlin College
http://www.timara.oberlin.edu/GaryLeeNelson

#96706
Feb 20, 2007 at 11:38am

>The archive nSlam-2.0.dmg seems to be pd not max osx.
>

just downloaded them – osX, and works

best

kasper

Kasper T. Toeplitz
noise, composition, bass, computer

http://www.sleazeArt.com

http://www.myspace.com/sleazeart

#96707
Feb 20, 2007 at 1:07pm

Perhaps we are looking at different things. The objects I find in
nSlam-2.0.dmg have extensions .pd not extensions that indicate max/msp.
They are indeed OSX but PD.

On 2/20/07 6:38 AM, “Kasper T Toeplitz” wrote:

>> The archive nSlam-2.0.dmg seems to be pd not max osx.
>>
>
> just downloaded them – osX, and works
>
> best
>
> kasper

Cheers
Gary Lee Nelson
Oberlin College
http://www.timara.oberlin.edu/GaryLeeNelson

#96708
Feb 20, 2007 at 1:19pm

>Perhaps we are looking at different things. The objects I find in
>nSlam-2.0.dmg have extensions .pd not extensions that indicate max/msp.
>They are indeed OSX but PD.
>

regular max objects here, no extensions (almost) all finishing by ~

maybe the wrong download??
kasper

Kasper T. Toeplitz
noise, composition, bass, computer

http://www.sleazeArt.com

http://www.myspace.com/sleazeart

#96709
Feb 20, 2007 at 2:15pm

I download two archives: nSlam-2.0.dmg which seems to be PD and
nSLAM-2.0_MSP.dmg which is MSP but contains only standalone apps for
streaming.

nSLAM_streamCaster-0.1
nSLAM_streamPlayer-0.1

The following apparently key objects are not in the msp archive

2wayRawStream.pd
4ch2wayStreamer.beta.pd
8chStreamCaster.pd
8chStreamPlayer.pd

On 2/20/07 8:19 AM, “Kasper T Toeplitz” wrote:

>> Perhaps we are looking at different things. The objects I find in
>> nSlam-2.0.dmg have extensions .pd not extensions that indicate max/msp.
>> They are indeed OSX but PD.
>>
>
>
> regular max objects here, no extensions (almost) all finishing by ~
>
>
>
> maybe the wrong download??
> kasper

Cheers
Gary Lee Nelson
Oberlin College
http://www.timara.oberlin.edu/GaryLeeNelson

#96710
Feb 20, 2007 at 3:25pm

those are not objects but only example apps built in pd using the
xjimmies. we decided not to port them to max, but everything needed for
building them is included in the MSP archive. the msp standalone
streamers do work out of the box though.

jm

Gary Lee Nelson wrote:
> I download two archives: nSlam-2.0.dmg which seems to be PD and
> nSLAM-2.0_MSP.dmg which is MSP but contains only standalone apps for
> streaming.
>
> nSLAM_streamCaster-0.1
> nSLAM_streamPlayer-0.1
>
> The following apparently key objects are not in the msp archive
>
> 2wayRawStream.pd
> 4ch2wayStreamer.beta.pd
> 8chStreamCaster.pd
> 8chStreamPlayer.pd
>
>
> On 2/20/07 8:19 AM, “Kasper T Toeplitz” wrote:
>
>>> Perhaps we are looking at different things. The objects I find in
>>> nSlam-2.0.dmg have extensions .pd not extensions that indicate max/msp.
>>> They are indeed OSX but PD.
>>>
>>
>> regular max objects here, no extensions (almost) all finishing by ~
>>
>>
>>
>> maybe the wrong download??
>> kasper
>
>
> Cheers
> Gary Lee Nelson
> Oberlin College
> http://www.timara.oberlin.edu/GaryLeeNelson
>
>
>

#96711
Feb 20, 2007 at 4:24pm

the oggpro~ streamer wasnt included, afaik. This is also the original
reason why we went with PD (at least it wasnt available at the time).

On Feb 20, 2007, at 10:25 AM, Jean-Michel Dumas wrote:

> those are not objects but only example apps built in pd using the
> xjimmies. we decided not to port them to max, but everything needed
> for building them is included in the MSP archive. the msp
> standalone streamers do work out of the box though.
>
> jm
>
> Gary Lee Nelson wrote:
>> I download two archives: nSlam-2.0.dmg which seems to be PD and
>> nSLAM-2.0_MSP.dmg which is MSP but contains only standalone apps for
>> streaming.
>> nSLAM_streamCaster-0.1
>> nSLAM_streamPlayer-0.1
>> The following apparently key objects are not in the msp archive
>> 2wayRawStream.pd
>> 4ch2wayStreamer.beta.pd
>> 8chStreamCaster.pd
>> 8chStreamPlayer.pd
>> On 2/20/07 8:19 AM, “Kasper T Toeplitz”
>> wrote:
>>>> Perhaps we are looking at different things. The objects I find in
>>>> nSlam-2.0.dmg have extensions .pd not extensions that indicate
>>>> max/msp.
>>>> They are indeed OSX but PD.
>>>>
>>>
>>> regular max objects here, no extensions (almost) all finishing by ~
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> maybe the wrong download??
>>> kasper
>> Cheers
>> Gary Lee Nelson
>> Oberlin College
>> http://www.timara.oberlin.edu/GaryLeeNelson
>

v a d e //

http://www.vade.info
abstrakt.vade.info

#96712
Feb 20, 2007 at 5:07pm

right, but this is not one of our objects so there is no way we would
want to distribute it (in the max form anyway). there is also licensing
issues in the max world that don’t exist in the PD world as far as the
oggpro~ library goes.

it has to be understand that the xjimmies library only eases the pain of
creating multi-channel apps. one of those application can be to send
audio over the network for sure, but it can also be used to create a
rockin multi-channel harmonizer. it does demand a bit of cannibalizing
and work though. it was never our goal to provide a fully functionnal
“one-click” app. anyways, i personnaly like having building blocks
instead of a pre-made patch, and it is a better learning tool IMO.

the pd version of the xjimmies _is_ more versatile (more example apps,
more developped streaming) and is our main distribution.

cheers
jm

vade wrote:
> the oggpro~ streamer wasnt included, afaik. This is also the original
> reason why we went with PD (at least it wasnt available at the time).
>
> On Feb 20, 2007, at 10:25 AM, Jean-Michel Dumas wrote:
>
>> those are not objects but only example apps built in pd using the
>> xjimmies. we decided not to port them to max, but everything needed
>> for building them is included in the MSP archive. the msp standalone
>> streamers do work out of the box though.
>>
>> jm
>>
>> Gary Lee Nelson wrote:
>>> I download two archives: nSlam-2.0.dmg which seems to be PD and
>>> nSLAM-2.0_MSP.dmg which is MSP but contains only standalone apps for
>>> streaming.
>>> nSLAM_streamCaster-0.1
>>> nSLAM_streamPlayer-0.1
>>> The following apparently key objects are not in the msp archive
>>> 2wayRawStream.pd
>>> 4ch2wayStreamer.beta.pd
>>> 8chStreamCaster.pd
>>> 8chStreamPlayer.pd
>>> On 2/20/07 8:19 AM, “Kasper T Toeplitz”
>>> > wrote:
>>>>> Perhaps we are looking at different things. The objects I find in
>>>>> nSlam-2.0.dmg have extensions .pd not extensions that indicate max/msp.
>>>>> They are indeed OSX but PD.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> regular max objects here, no extensions (almost) all finishing by ~
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> maybe the wrong download??
>>>> kasper
>>> Cheers
>>> Gary Lee Nelson
>>> Oberlin College
>>> http://www.timara.oberlin.edu/GaryLeeNelson
>>> maxmsp@cycling74.com
>>
>> maxmsp@cycling74.com

>
> *v a d e //*
>
> *www.vade.info*
> *abstrakt.vade.info*
>
>
>
>
> ————————————————————————
>

#96713

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