Sensor for piano to replace Yamaha Disklavier ?

Jul 19, 2006 at 3:57pm

Sensor for piano to replace Yamaha Disklavier ?

I have heard that there is some sensor that is designed for piano. I am writing a piece for piano and would not like to use Yamaha Disklavier to detect pitch and velocity since it will limit the chance to get the piece performed.

Could anyone let me know where I can find the piano sensor that detects the finger movement of the peformer and can send out data of pitch and velocity ?

Thanks.

#26856
Jul 19, 2006 at 4:08pm

#80777
Jul 19, 2006 at 4:12pm

well there is the piano bar, by moog.
but thats kinda pricey too.

you could make a video tracking system.
or build your own piano bar…

the disklavier is hard to replace…

#80778
Jul 19, 2006 at 4:19pm

I worked on the Piano Bar with Don Buchla before it was licensed to Moog. It is VERY GOOD. Fast even response, consistent behavior and excellent dynamics. There is no way you could do this in a video system and doing it yourself would be a huge project.

Keith

Cheng Chien-Wen wrote:

I have heard that there is some sensor that is designed for piano. I am writing a piece for piano and would not like to use Yamaha Disklavier to detect pitch and velocity since it will limit the chance to get the piece performed.

Could anyone let me know where I can find the piano sensor that detects the finger movement of the peformer and can send out data of pitch and velocity ?

Thanks.

Keith McMillen
BEAM Foundation
http://www.beamfoundation.org/
510.502.5310

#80779
Jul 21, 2006 at 9:28am

Ultimately, my understanding is that the pianobar, just like the
disklavier is outputting MIDI, so (especially if you’re not assuming
MIDI playback, just input) you even could write it for a keyboard. If
the disklavier is available, you use that. If not, you use a piano
bar/keyboard (with sound module)

The piano bar seems like a good idea, but it does one thing only, and
it’s more expensive than several decent mid-range digital pianos.
Also, it means that your venue has to have a piano. With a keyboard,
you can decouple played pitch from sounding pitch. That said, it
would definitely be easier to schlepp the pianobar… It’d also be
very nice if MOOG offered a cheaper version sans sound-producing
module that just output MIDI, and omitted the flashing lights; nothing
like a grand mal seizure to ruin a practice session…

Peter McCulloch

#80780
Jul 21, 2006 at 9:56am

Keith McMillen wrote:
> I worked on the Piano Bar with Don Buchla before it was licensed to
> Moog. It is VERY GOOD. Fast even response, consistent behavior and
> excellent dynamics. There is no way you could do this in a video system
> and doing it yourself would be a huge project.

Yes, video is way too slow, 25 or 30 frames/second just wouldn’t work,
and it would be hard or impossible to track all keys with just one
camera anyway…
And the Piano Bar seems easily transportable…

Stefan


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#80781
Jul 23, 2006 at 11:57pm

Hi there,

several years ago when I studied composition I wrote a piece for a machine we called a trimpin vorsetsel(?). It was a device with 88 pneumatic vents which were controlled by midi and which you placed on top of the keyboard of the piano. By sending a corresponding midi note number one of the vents pressed a key of the piano. It was even sensitive for note velocity but had a limited range between 20 and 100. The cool thing about it was that it was 88 voice polyphonic so you could write really crazy stuff and it would play it.
I think the conservatory of Amsterdam still owns two of them. They were made by this guy:

http://www.otherminds.org/shtml/Trimpin.shtml

Hope it helps with your quest!

Grt,

Danny de Graan

#80782
Jul 26, 2006 at 9:09am

danny de graan wrote:
> several years ago when I studied composition I wrote a piece for a
> machine we called a trimpin vorsetsel(?).

More than 20 years ago, I was involved with Richard Teitelbaums piano
project, wich utilised a Vorsetzer (a German word wich roughly
translates to “device to put in front”. He was playing a prepared
Bechstein grand piano to track his playing and we did the manipulation
with a customized 68000 computer. No Midi for the Vorsetzer that time,
though we did have a Midi interface on the computer and could pass it on…
For touring it was a bit heavy, but we played all over Europe, always
carrying the Bechstein and two Vorsetzers.

> The cool thing about it was that it was 88 voice polyphonic so you
> could write really crazy stuff and it would play it.

Though playing all 88 keys at the same time could burn a fuse and it we
had also solonoids burnt…

With the Disclaviers from Yamaha this system became obsolete…

Stefan


Stefan Tiedje————x——-
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#80783
Jul 26, 2006 at 11:05am

On 26-Jul-2006, at 11:09, Stefan Tiedje wrote:
> With the Disclaviers from Yamaha this system became obsolete…

Not entirely. Godfried-Willem Raes is still hard at work supporting
his Player Piano, as well as a multitude of other MIDI-controllable
instruments. < http://www.logosfoundation.org/instrum_gwr/
automatons.html>

————– http://www.bek.no/~pcastine/Litter/ ————-
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#80784
Jul 26, 2006 at 11:06am

Stefan Tiedje wrote:
> Though playing all 88 keys at the same time could burn a fuse and > it we had also solonoids burnt…

When we had concerts with the Vorsetzel we brought our own technician with us because it did burnout fuses (a lot)…even with the midi ones. I talked to my former teacher and he said that there are planes to (re)build some new ones with all the problems resolved.

I don’t know if Trimpin build anything like a sensor device for piano’s but I know Roland did for sometime. It was like the Pianobar from Moog but had a range of only 2 octaves. I don’t think it was a big success but maybe you can find them on the net for a bargain.

Danny de Graan

#80785
Jul 28, 2006 at 11:13pm

danny de graan wrote:
> I don’t know if Trimpin build anything like a sensor device for
> piano’s

The contacts Richard Teitelbaum used I think came from Trimpin, but they
had to be built into the Piano (drilling wholes into the wood and such
nasties). Years after the project was finished, someone from Bechstein
told me they had to throw away the grand afterwards because of that…
(It was too late, I couldn’t ask them to give it to me instead ;-)

Stefan


Stefan Tiedje————x——-
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#80786
Mar 14, 2007 at 9:06am

anything new about the pianobar?
has anybody had experience with this device and might be willing to share?

#80787
Mar 14, 2007 at 9:35am

I used it once and it reacted very well, capturing velocity. There’s a
slightly tedious set-up routine, but that only has to be done once. It’s a
bit bulky and can get in the way of the fingers at times. The MIDI sounds
are not very good, but I guess you’ll probably be wanting to bypass the
synth any way. All in all, the best solution I’ve come across.

Jonathan

On 14/03/07, yair reshef wrote:
>
>
> anything new about the pianobar?
> has anybody had experience with this device and might be willing to share?
>


Jonathan Green
0777 1680 497
jonathan@jg1983.co.uk

#80788

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