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Shepard tone played by an instrument?

August 6, 2008 | 7:52 pm

Hello,

I’ve got a question about the Shepard Tone object/patch of CNMAT or just the Shepard tone in Max/MSP. What I want is to hear the sound of, for example, a violin or a saxophone and not that output of the sinusoids. I really don’t know I’ve that’s possible.
What I just want, is to play the sound of an instrument, like a violin or sax, in the tones of Shepard (or Risset).
Could someone help me? I’m really a newbie with Max/Msp.

Thank,

Nicolette

(working with max/msp 4.5 on a Windows XP computer)


August 6, 2008 | 10:53 pm

It’s a pretty detailed process to try and explain and there are many ways to do this but since I haven’t done this, all I could tell you is that you might be able to do this either by taking a sample of a violin, etc. looping a small section of it in order to achieve the timbre of the violin and then applying that to a shepard-tone patch somehow or perhaps even try it within some kind of FFT algorithm that would also achieve shepard-tone-like-pitch-shifting. Maybe someone else here who has already created this will answer your post, though, you never know…

I would definitely try contacting the people at CNMAT, they created the patch as well as the sinusoids~ object on which it depends.

http://cnmat.berkeley.edu/patch/4009

It is definitely possible, though. Best of luck.


August 7, 2008 | 2:06 pm

On 07 Aug 2008, at 00:53, raja wrote:
>
> It’s a pretty detailed process to try and explain and there are
> many ways to do this but since I haven’t done this, all I could
> tell you is that you might be able to do this either by taking a
> sample of a violin, etc. looping a small section of it in order to
> achieve the timbre of the violin and then applying that to a
> shepard-tone patch somehow or perhaps even try it within some kind
> of FFT algorithm that would also achieve shepard-tone-like-pitch-
> shifting. Maybe someone else here who has already created this will
> answer your post, though, you never know…
>
> It is definitely possible, though. Best of luck.
>

hm…
while it is certainly possible to use a sound with any combination of
partials to feed the glissando machine, the auditory illusion of the
ever rising/falling glissando will only work with a sound whose
partials are spaced apart by the same interval – preferably an octave
(partials 1, 2, 4, 8, 16 etc.).

vb


August 8, 2008 | 5:55 am

Nicolette schrieb:
> Could someone help me? I’m really a newbie with Max/Msp.

Max expertise alone wouldn’t help in this case. The shepard tone uses a
specific overtone structure and mixture to get you into this illusion.
The original is sliding a fundamental and its overtones while fading in
the lower and fading out the higher partials. As soon the highest
partial is silent, you fade it in again on the lower end…
On option is to record a real slide over two octaves of the given
instrument (hard to play for the sax…) and create at least three
copies, which have to be in an exact overtone relationship with the
others. Main problem would be to play a steady slide, which has exactly
the same interval/time over the complete 2 octaves. The other option is
to create the move with a gizmo~ pitch shift, that would allow to do an
exact move, but will introduce some artefacts to the sound…

Good luck and post the result…


Stefan Tiedje————x——-
–_____———–|————–
–(_|_ —-|—–|—–()——-
– _|_)—-|—–()————–
———-()——–www.ccmix.com


August 11, 2008 | 10:23 am

Mmmm..thanks for the comments and advises, but I think I gone skip this idea. My knowledge of Max/MSP is not so far jet. But if someone want’s to work out this "problem"/idea, be my guest :).

Grz,

Nicolette


August 12, 2008 | 10:58 am

You might have success with a cross-fade in the frequency domain. I believe this was essentially the technique used to recreate the castrato voice in Farinelli.


October 8, 2008 | 10:48 pm

I made some plugins that do this. There is a shepard tone ring modulator, flanger, phasor and pitch shifter:

http://www.olilarkin.co.uk/index.php?p=eseries

oli


October 11, 2008 | 8:22 am

nice soft, thanks for the link

maybe a convolution of instrument sound and Shepard tone can be a simple workaround



FP
August 25, 2009 | 7:38 pm

check this : http://pan-etc.net/res/dev/glissando.zip
it’s not perfect but works well…


August 25, 2009 | 8:13 pm

i disagree with the idea that the effect of the continiously rising
tone would work only with a certain overtone structure/timbre.

it is almost as cool with a saxophone sample or even a drumloop.

and it also works when the distance between the tones is 1.377 octaves,
it is a just a bit a different effect than in the "original" (wtf.)

oh, did i mention that 110.modular has a shepard generator which
outputs fade in/fade out data for each of the stages?

-110

.



FP
August 25, 2009 | 9:20 pm

and where’s is 110.modular ? thx.



k9
August 28, 2009 | 9:27 am

I’m afraid the link to Glissando.zip seems to be broken.

Kai



FP
August 28, 2009 | 1:38 pm

it’s ok now. sorry.


August 28, 2009 | 9:37 pm

 
 
it is somewhere below here –> •

 
 



FP
August 28, 2009 | 10:29 pm
Roman Thilenius wrote on Fri, 28 August 2009 23:37

it is somewhere below here –> •

yep, i saw lately. ‘was tired… Smile


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