I'm wondering if I should sell my Motormix and replace it with

something else. I can't use it with Live (without spending a lot of

time hacking something together in Max) and I'm wondering if the

faders on other Motorized mixing interfaces are more responsive.

I'm wondering if I should sell my Motormix and replace it with
something else. I can't use it with Live (without spending a lot of
time hacking something together in Max) and I'm wondering if the
faders on other Motorized mixing interfaces are more responsive.
Should I sell it,  and if so, with what?


should-i-sell-my-motormix

I suppose that depends on what you're using it for. I thought I was 

done with mine - I've been using a Faderfox, which is much smaller 

and has almost as many controls. But then I went back to a patch I 

originally developed to use with the motormix, and although I changed 

things around quite a bit, so that the original reason for using the 

MMix ( a kind of "instead of" Monome) has changed, I'm actually 

finding the MMix is better for the job than the Faderfox (which is 

As far as I'm aware, about the only other automated fader boxes are 

the Behringer ones (yes?no?), and they're about the same size, but 

probably lighter than the MMix. On the other hand, the MMix is built 

like a tank and very reliable (touch wood).

I guess where I'm going with this is - if I were you, I'd keep the 

David - off to see the Tenori-On in about 2 hours!

> I'm wondering if I should sell my Motormix and replace it with

> something else. I can't use it with Live (without spending a lot of

> time hacking something together in Max) and I'm wondering if the

> faders on other Motorized mixing interfaces are more responsive.

> Should I sell it, and if so, with what?

I suppose that depends on what you're using it for. I thought I was  
done with mine - I've been using a Faderfox, which is much smaller  
and has almost as many controls. But then I went back to a patch I  
originally developed to use with the motormix, and although I changed  
things around quite a bit, so that the original reason for using the  
MMix ( a kind of "instead of" Monome) has changed, I'm actually  
finding the MMix is better for the job than the Faderfox (which is  
non-automated anyway).

As far as I'm aware, about the only other automated fader boxes are  
the Behringer ones (yes?no?), and they're about the same size, but  
probably lighter than the MMix. On the other hand, the MMix is built  
like a tank and very reliable (touch wood).

I guess where I'm going with this is - if I were you, I'd keep the  
thing, and build patches around it.

> I'm wondering if I should sell my Motormix and replace it with
> something else. I can't use it with Live (without spending a lot of
> time hacking something together in Max) and I'm wondering if the
> faders on other Motorized mixing interfaces are more responsive.
> Should I sell it,  and if so, with what?


For my work I need the LCD display of the mmix so I can, using the

MMix external by Cycling, program the MMix and almost avoid to use the

> I suppose that depends on what you're using it for. I thought I was

> done with mine - I've been using a Faderfox, which is much smaller

> and has almost as many controls. But then I went back to a patch I

> originally developed to use with the motormix, and although I changed

> things around quite a bit, so that the original reason for using the

> MMix ( a kind of "instead of" Monome) has changed, I'm actually

> finding the MMix is better for the job than the Faderfox (which is

> As far as I'm aware, about the only other automated fader boxes are

> the Behringer ones (yes?no?), and they're about the same size, but

> probably lighter than the MMix. On the other hand, the MMix is built

> like a tank and very reliable (touch wood).

> I guess where I'm going with this is - if I were you, I'd keep the

> David - off to see the Tenori-On in about 2 hours!

> > I'm wondering if I should sell my Motormix and replace it with

> > something else. I can't use it with Live (without spending a lot of

> > time hacking something together in Max) and I'm wondering if the

> > faders on other Motorized mixing interfaces are more responsive.

> > Should I sell it, and if so, with what?

For my work I need the LCD display of the mmix so I can, using the
MMix external by Cycling, program the MMix and almost avoid to use the
PBook.

2007/9/4, David Stevens :
> I suppose that depends on what you're using it for. I thought I was
> done with mine - I've been using a Faderfox, which is much smaller
> and has almost as many controls. But then I went back to a patch I
> originally developed to use with the motormix, and although I changed
> things around quite a bit, so that the original reason for using the
> MMix ( a kind of "instead of" Monome) has changed, I'm actually
> finding the MMix is better for the job than the Faderfox (which is
> non-automated anyway).
>
> As far as I'm aware, about the only other automated fader boxes are
> the Behringer ones (yes?no?), and they're about the same size, but
> probably lighter than the MMix. On the other hand, the MMix is built
> like a tank and very reliable (touch wood).
>
> I guess where I'm going with this is - if I were you, I'd keep the
> thing, and build patches around it.
>
> David - off to see the Tenori-On in about 2 hours!
>
>
> On 4 Sep 2007, at 15:36, Wade wrote:
>
> > I'm wondering if I should sell my Motormix and replace it with
> > something else. I can't use it with Live (without spending a lot of
> > time hacking something together in Max) and I'm wondering if the
> > faders on other Motorized mixing interfaces are more responsive.
> > Should I sell it,  and if so, with what?
>
>

Is the Motormix extrenal you use the same as this?

https://cycling74.com/twiki/bin/view/Share/DarwinGrosse

Also, maybe I missed something in Motormix external's help but is

there a way to customize the LCD display text with Max?

Has anyone created a patch for interfacing with Ableton Live?

> For my work I need the LCD display of the mmix so I can, using the

> MMix external by Cycling, program the MMix and almost avoid to use the

Is the Motormix extrenal you use the same as this?
https://cycling74.com/twiki/bin/view/Share/DarwinGrosse

Also, maybe I missed something in Motormix external's help but is
there a way to customize the LCD display text with Max?

On 9/4/07, Alessandro Fogar  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'd keep the MMix, I love mine.
>
> For my work I need the LCD display of the mmix so I can, using the
> MMix external by Cycling, program the MMix and almost avoid to use the
> PBook.
>
> Tried the Behringer, didn't liked it.
>
> All the best
>
> Alessandro Fogar


I did a pile of Motor-Mix-to-Ableton-Live linkup last year. I used the old jhno MM drivers in Max, and generated MIDI controller messages which went across to Live via IAC. A more interesting project would be to use Max and IAC to build an emulation layer to make the MM look like one of the controllers that Live *does* believe in.

Interested in posting the patch that did all this Live linkup you speak of?

That's a really cool idea. Deciding on the controller to best emulate

would be in itself a projust seeing that there's like 20 or so.

> I did a pile of Motor-Mix-to-Ableton-Live linkup last year. I used the old jhno MM drivers in Max, and generated MIDI controller messages which went across to Live via IAC. A more interesting project would be to use Max and IAC to build an emulation layer to make the MM look like one of the controllers that Live *does* believe in.

That's a really cool idea. Deciding on the controller to best emulate
would be in itself a projust seeing that there's like 20 or so.

On 9/4/07, Nick Rothwell  wrote:
>
> I did a pile of Motor-Mix-to-Ableton-Live linkup last year. I used the old jhno MM drivers in Max, and generated MIDI controller messages which went across to Live via IAC. A more interesting project would be to use Max and IAC to build an emulation layer to make the MM look like one of the controllers that Live *does* believe in.
>


> Is the Motormix extrenal you use the same as this?

> Also, maybe I missed something in Motormix external's help but is

> there a way to customize the LCD display text with Max?

Yes, there's a way you have to pass to the external the message

> Is the Motormix extrenal you use the same as this?
> https://cycling74.com/twiki/bin/view/Share/DarwinGrosse

> Also, maybe I missed something in Motormix external's help but is
> there a way to customize the LCD display text with Max?

Quote: nick rothwell / cassiel wrote on Wed, 05 September 2007 04:51

----------------------------------------------------

> A more interesting project would be to use Max and IAC to build an emulation layer to make the MM look like one of the controllers that Live *does* believe in.

Well underway with LC Xmu, allowing the MotorMix to emulate a Mackie Control. Everything is currently operational except the LCD (the motormix has fewer characters than the MC and only a single line of text) and 7-segment display. I'm mildly hampered by not owning the hardware to test on.

If anyone wants to try it, grab the LC Xmu demo (has periodic timeouts) from 

 and email me for the drop-in beta controller module. OS X only.

Quote: nick rothwell / cassiel wrote on Wed, 05 September 2007 04:51
----------------------------------------------------
> A more interesting project would be to use Max and IAC to build an emulation layer to make the MM look like one of the controllers that Live *does* believe in.
----------------------------------------------------

If anyone wants to try it, grab the LC Xmu demo (has periodic timeouts) from http://www.opuslocus.com/lcxmu/ and email me for the drop-in beta controller module. OS X only.


> Has anyone created a patch for interfacing with Ableton Live?

We have 2 MotorMixes at the CCMIX, but no Live. I can't imagine that 

The one and most annoying thing about the MMix is, that it never 

remembers that you never want to use it in ProTools mode, (and that's 

To learn the keycombination to get it to behave like a normal Faderbox 

is hard to learn, that's why you have to place a sticker onto it to 

remember, to always hit this unlearnable key combo...

The rest should be plain midi stuff (send back the midi-cc etc...)

Wade schrieb:
> Has anyone created a patch for interfacing with Ableton Live?

We have 2 MotorMixes at the CCMIX, but no Live. I can't imagine that 
this should be difficult.
The one and most annoying thing about the MMix is, that it never 
remembers that you never want to use it in ProTools mode, (and that's 
the default :-().
To learn the keycombination to get it to behave like a normal Faderbox 
is hard to learn, that's why you have to place a sticker onto it to 
remember, to always hit this unlearnable key combo...
The rest should be plain midi stuff (send back the midi-cc etc...)

-- 
Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
--_____-----------|--------------
--(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
-- _|_)----|-----()--------------
----------()--------www.ccmix.com

On my MotorMix, to get it out of ProTools mode, you just hold down

Play + Escape when its starting up. After that, it should stay in

Non-ProTools mode even after turning it off.

> The one and most annoying thing about the MMix is, that it never

> remembers that you never want to use it in ProTools mode, (and that's

> To learn the keycombination to get it to behave like a normal Faderbox

> is hard to learn, that's why you have to place a sticker onto it to

> remember, to always hit this unlearnable key combo...

> The rest should be plain midi stuff (send back the midi-cc etc...)

On my MotorMix, to get it out of ProTools mode, you just hold down
Play + Escape when its starting up. After that, it should stay in
Non-ProTools mode even after turning it off.

> The one and most annoying thing about the MMix is, that it never
> remembers that you never want to use it in ProTools mode, (and that's
> the default :-().
> To learn the keycombination to get it to behave like a normal Faderbox
> is hard to learn, that's why you have to place a sticker onto it to
> remember, to always hit this unlearnable key combo...
> The rest should be plain midi stuff (send back the midi-cc etc...)
>
> Stefan
>
> --
> Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
> --_____-----------|--------------
> --(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
> -- _|_)----|-----()--------------
> ----------()--------www.ccmix.com
>
>
>


i've been trying to figure out why my motormix wasn't sending the right messages to the external object for about a week and a half, and it turns out it was because of pro tools mode. thanks stefan & echolock. now if only i could find a way to make the motormix objects use the full 511 value range of the faders and the incremental attributes of the infinite rotaries..

anyways, i guess you knew about the mode stuff already... i still think you should keep your motormix though, and bug abelton about their lack of support here: 

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=45502

anyways, i guess you knew about the mode stuff already... i still think you should keep your motormix though, and bug abelton about their lack of support here: http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=45502


Is it possible to access 511 values on the faders? They have that much

resolution? I would think they would only have the regular 0-127

As regards Live support, I've been bugging them big time on their

forums. Several bumps and requests there are mine.

>now if only i could find a way to make the motormix objects use the

full 511 value >range of the faders and the incremental attributes of

> anyways, i guess you knew about the mode stuff already... i still think you should keep your motormix though, and bug abelton about their lack of support here: 

Is it possible to access 511 values on the faders? They have that much
resolution? I would think they would only have the regular 0-127
range.

As regards Live support, I've been bugging them big time on their
forums. Several bumps and requests there are mine.

>now if only i could find a way to make the motormix objects use the
full 511 value >range of the faders and the incremental attributes of
the infinite rotaries..
>
>
> anyways, i guess you knew about the mode stuff already... i still think you should keep your motormix though, and bug abelton about their lack of support here: http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=45502


> On my MotorMix, to get it out of ProTools mode, you just hold down

> Play + Escape when its starting up. After that, it should stay in

> Non-ProTools mode even after turning it off.

It should, but it doesn't. I have to do it each power-up, don't know why...

Wade schrieb:
> On my MotorMix, to get it out of ProTools mode, you just hold down
> Play + Escape when its starting up. After that, it should stay in
> Non-ProTools mode even after turning it off.

Quote: echolock@gmail.com wrote on Thu, 06 September 2007 08:23

> Is it possible to access 511 values on the faders? They have that much

> resolution? I would think they would only have the regular 0-127

http://www.prorec.com/Articles/tabid/109/EntryID/116/Default.aspx

it's an old article and unofficial and i haven't tested it myself, but:

The faders have a range from 0-511. Obviously, the Motor Mix can't send position info using a single byte. Fader position is transmitted using two consecutive messages. You get the MSB in a message like BN-(00 thru 07)-zz, where the (00 thru 07) is the control group (i.e. which fader) and the "zz" is the seven most significant bits of the position (0MMMMMMM). If you only need volume ranges from 0 - 127, then this is all the info you need.

Two more position bits are sent with the LSB message that follows the MSB message. The message looks like BN-(20 thru 27)-zz. Note the 0x20 offset on the control group part of the message. That's your key it's the LSB message, not the MSB message. The zz only uses two of the bits (0LL00000). You'll have to do some bit-wise operations to tack the MSB to the LSB to get the fader position.

it would seem that the motormix externals ignore this second message.

Quote: echolock@gmail.com wrote on Thu, 06 September 2007 08:23
----------------------------------------------------
> Is it possible to access 511 values on the faders? They have that much
> resolution? I would think they would only have the regular 0-127
> range.

I got that info here: http://www.prorec.com/Articles/tabid/109/EntryID/116/Default.aspx

it would seem that the motormix externals ignore this second message.


Quote: echolock@gmail.com wrote on Fri, 07 September 2007 02:23

> I've been bugging them big time on their

> forums. Several bumps and requests there are mine.

'Scuse the pimping, but if you're on a Mac, you might seriously consider LC Xmu as above. One of my MotorMix testers is mainly using Live with it, and he seems to be very happy, probably ditching his BCF.

Quote: echolock@gmail.com wrote on Fri, 07 September 2007 02:23
----------------------------------------------------
> I've been bugging them big time on their
> forums. Several bumps and requests there are mine.

'Scuse the pimping, but if you're on a Mac, you might seriously consider LC Xmu as above. One of my MotorMix testers is mainly using Live with it, and he seems to be very happy, probably ditching his BCF.


> now if only i could find a way to make the motormix objects use the

> full 511 value range of the faders and the incremental attributes of

Shouldn't be too hard either, you just have to know how midi works...

more than seven bits are sent with two controler numbers, 32 apart...

infinite rotaries add or subtract to a value. Look at my dialin/dtlin... 

abhaXions in the St.ools package... They do it for you and come in a lot 

of flavors... (some old and akward some more simple... ;-)

To find out what your motormix is actually sending, you can use my 

Comiditor, which can print the incoming Midi to the Max window. 

Especially with high resolution controller values this is required, as 

other tools show only the last received event...

kevin schrieb:
> now if only i could find a way to make the motormix objects use the
> full 511 value range of the faders and the incremental attributes of
> the infinite rotaries..

Shouldn't be too hard either, you just have to know how midi works...
more than seven bits are sent with two controler numbers, 32 apart...
infinite rotaries add or subtract to a value. Look at my dialin/dtlin... 
abhaXions in the St.ools package... They do it for you and come in a lot 
of flavors... (some old and akward some more simple... ;-)

To find out what your motormix is actually sending, you can use my 
Comiditor, which can print the incoming Midi to the Max window. 
Especially with high resolution controller values this is required, as 
other tools show only the last received event...

https://cycling74.com/forums/index.php?t=msg&goto=105932&rid=0&S=5436a8316da3fc4c61f3b7f92f856f7d&srch=motormix#msg_105932

> As regards Live support, I've been bugging them big time on their

> >now if only i could find a way to make the motormix objects use the

> full 511 value >range of the faders and the incremental attributes of

> > anyways, i guess you knew about the mode stuff already... i still think you should keep your motormix though, and bug abelton about their lack of support here: 

2007/9/6, Wade :
> Is it possible to access 511 values on the faders? They have that much
> resolution? I would think they would only have the regular 0-127
> range.
>
> As regards Live support, I've been bugging them big time on their
> forums. Several bumps and requests there are mine.
>
> >now if only i could find a way to make the motormix objects use the
> full 511 value >range of the faders and the incremental attributes of
> the infinite rotaries..
> >
> >
> > anyways, i guess you knew about the mode stuff already... i still think you should keep your motormix though, and bug abelton about their lack of support here: http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=45502
>


Should I sell my Motormix?