Cycling 74 » Topic: Signal to noise optimization in MSP

Signal to noise optimization in MSP

griesgraber@mindspring.com — Wed, 25 Jan 2006 17:42:37 +0000

Please excuse this very fundamental question, but how do I ensure that I am achieving the optimum s to n ratio in MSP? I am using a G4 powerpook and a MOTU 828mkII. I have built what is essentially a multi-voice looper to be used with electric guitar. I am about to take the patch out for its first performance, and I think that prospect has heightened my sensitivity to how noisy the patch (or the Max/MSP environment) is. To troubleshoot, I opened a new patch that was nothing but adc~ and dac~ objects connected to each other. Still noisy. The I tried swapping a Presonus Firebox for the MOTU – again, same noise. So I switched back to the 828mkII and ran clean, direct guitar signal to Logic 6 and there was very little noise. So my question is, is MSP just a noisy environment, or is there something in the way Max/MSP and the Mac communicate that’s generating excess noise and which I can control.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Steve

Re: Signal to noise optimization in MSP

cebec — Wed, 25 Jan 2006 18:03:25 +0000

i don’t hear or see any noise when connecting an adc~ to dac~ in 4.5.6 on a Dell tower w/ built-in sound hardware.

Re: Signal to noise optimization in MSP

griesgraber@mindspring.com — Wed, 25 Jan 2006 18:22:29 +0000

Thanks for the reply cebec. Is there anyone out there who *has* experienced noise issues in setup and has overcome them?

Re: Signal to noise optimization in MSP

Grimm — Wed, 25 Jan 2006 23:36:01 +0000

i haven’t had any problems like this. any internal feedback systems seem totally silent until “seeded” with some sort of intentional audio. is the noise getting into the loops and multiplying (i.e. does it come from your audio input and get amplified by the system), or is it always a consistent noise level?

Re: Signal to noise optimization in MSP

Stefan Tiedje — Thu, 26 Jan 2006 11:04:33 +0000

Stephen Griesgraber wrote:
> Thanks for the reply cebec. Is there anyone out there who *has*
> experienced noise issues in setup and has overcome them?

I know of problems with noise which even do not get out of the
soundcard, but are induced directly into powered speakers (high quality,
Dynaudios). But inly if the power supply of a Toshiba laptop was plugged
in. There could be a problem with high energy badly shielded power supplies.
Changing the power outlet helped, but only a little…

If the problem is with a laptop try running it on batteries.
(Apple Powerbooks do not have this problem)

Stefan

–

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Stefan Tiedje
Klanggestalter
Electronic Composition
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Improvisation

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Re: Signal to noise optimization in MSP

Patrick Delges — Thu, 26 Jan 2006 14:09:06 +0000

On 26 janv. 06, at 12:04, Stefan Tiedje wrote:

> Stephen Griesgraber wrote:
>> Thanks for the reply cebec. Is there anyone out there who *has*
>> experienced noise issues in setup and has overcome them?
>

I had once noise with a USB Digi001. Replacing the USB cable solved the
problem.

_____________________________
Patrick Delges

Centre de Recherches et de Formation Musicales de Wallonie asbl

http://users.skynet.be/crfmw/max

Re: Signal to noise optimization in MSP

Peter Castine — Thu, 26 Jan 2006 14:24:41 +0000

On around Jan 26, 2006, at 12:04, Stefan Tiedje said something like:
> But inly if the power supply of a Toshiba laptop was plugged in.

Right: ground loops.

I carry around a universal mains adapter for my PowerBook, even inside
Continental Europe (hell, even inside Berlin), for the single reason
that it doesn’t connect to earth/ground.

> If the problem is with a laptop try running it on batteries.
> (Apple Powerbooks do not have this problem)

Mine sure does.

And, yes, I once did a performance on batteries for the simple reason
that I forgot to bring my handy-dandy look-ma-no-earth mains plug
adapter to the gig.

If a ground loop is the source of Stephen’s problem, it’s easy to fix
and will make an enormous difference!

– P.

Re: Signal to noise optimization in MSP

Kasper — Thu, 26 Jan 2006 14:36:49 +0000

>
>
>I carry around a universal mains adapter for my PowerBook, even
>inside Continental Europe (hell, even inside Berlin), for the single
>reason that it doesn’t connect to earth/ground.
>

had the same problem with the (MAC) Pbook G3 – had to take the
earth/plug off – and quite the opposite with the Alu G4 1.5 Pbook –
when running it with the NO-EARTH plug (provided by apple) i had once
big troubles (i was feeling the electricity when touching the pbook)

plugging the OTHER cable (provided by apple as well) with
earth/ground solved the problem

best

kasper
–
Kasper T. Toeplitz
noise, composition, bass, computer

http://www.sleazeArt.com

Re: Signal to noise optimization in MSP

Patrick Delges — Thu, 26 Jan 2006 14:37:22 +0000

> I had once noise with a USB Digi001. Replacing the USB cable solved
> the problem.

Oooppsss, I meant a mbox, not a digi001 (i’ll never be familiar with
digidesign product line…)

Sorry.

_____________________________
Patrick Delges

Centre de Recherches et de Formation Musicales de Wallonie asbl

http://users.skynet.be/crfmw/max

Re: Signal to noise optimization in MSP

Stefan Tiedje — Thu, 26 Jan 2006 21:51:25 +0000

Kasper T Toeplitz wrote:
> when running it with the NO-EARTH plug (provided by apple) i had once
> big troubles (i was feeling the electricity when touching the pbook)

Yeah, thats what I love most about electronic music, without noise but
being electrified….

Stefan

–

[][] [][][] [][] [][][] [][] [][][] [][] [][][]
[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]

Stefan Tiedje
Klanggestalter
Electronic Composition
&
Improvisation

/~~~~~
\ /|() ()|
))))) )| | |( \
/// _/)/ )))))
___/ ///

————————-x—
–_____———–|———-
–(_|_ —-|—–|—–()—
– _|_)—-|—–()———-
———-()————x—-

14, Av. Pr. Franklin Roosevelt, 94320 Thiais, France
Phone at CCMIX +33-1-49 77 51 72