Mike S

what are the possibilities of drawing out on paper a patch, in reasonably clear writing, then scanning it in to the computer and having msp build it?

sketching something out now and thought, wouldn't that be nice

get tired of looking at a screen sometimes! 

sketching-a-patch

Let's get real here. Even with my formal training in art school, the Max/MSP environment beats manual sketching hands down in my book. I also used to design relational databases in software environments where that was possible. (Visio was one of those programs.) But compared to Max/MSP, the structural possibilities in database design are a lot fewer; whereas, the possibilities and choices in Max/MSP are limitless, new ones being created as I write. It seems to me that development outside the environment would require a super-human knowledge of the objects used as well as unfaltering memory of all the data types, the objects' settings and the acceptable inlet and outlet connections. Then there's the inspector settings that determine appearance, behavior, etc., etc. That's a lot of stuff to be drawing and noting down on paper. Imagine having to erase and redraw an entire section just to make room for something you accidentally omitted. Are you sure about this?

Let's get real here. Even with my formal training in art school, the Max/MSP environment beats manual sketching hands down in my book. I also used to design relational databases in software environments where that was possible. (Visio was one of those programs.) But compared to Max/MSP, the structural possibilities in database design are a lot fewer; whereas, the possibilities and choices in Max/MSP are limitless, new ones being created as I write. It seems to me that development outside the environment would require a super-human knowledge of the objects used as well as unfaltering memory of all the data types, the objects' settings and the acceptable inlet and outlet connections. Then there's the inspector settings that determine appearance, behavior, etc., etc.  That's a lot of stuff to be drawing and noting down on paper. Imagine having to erase and redraw an entire section just to make room for something you accidentally omitted. Are you sure about this?


keepin it real! of course i'm not expecting this to appear straight away, if at all! twas a just thought

regarding remembering stuff, i don't think its that hard. i know mostly which objects i want to use, which datatypes and how they all connect. regarding appearance, in my mind i was just thinking of the bare bones objects, not really interface design, though maybe you could set templates for things?

perhaps in the future we will see touchscreens that can recognize your writing, which would be different way to approach it (as you said, you could draw something and it just wouldn't work, so this way it would be more like normal patching, but still looking at a screen : / )

get tired of looking at a screen sometimes...perhaps in the future we will see touchscreens that can recognize your writing

Yes! Now you're talking. In fact, this technology, or at least the genesis of it, exists today in which both the handwriting-recognizing writing tablet and display screen are integrated as a single interface surface. Take the Palm handheld with handwriting recognition for instance. It would be nice to be able to carry one's monitor around like a writing tablet rather than a stationary display to which one has no direct physical contact. From this perspective, I can't agree with you more.

Quote:get tired of looking at a screen sometimes...perhaps in the future we will see touchscreens that can recognize your writing

Yes! Now you're talking. In fact, this technology, or at least the genesis of it, exists today in which both the handwriting-recognizing writing tablet and display screen are integrated as a single interface surface. Take the Palm handheld with handwriting recognition for instance. It would be nice to be able to carry one's monitor around like a writing tablet rather than a stationary display to which one has no direct physical contact. From this perspective, I can't agree with you more.


That might work somewhat using OCR technology, it could get the text OK probably, not sure about the patch cords... maybe there might be a way to set up a custom recognition scanning software to see where the inlets and outlets are, etc. Music scores can be scanned with pretty high accuracy, which are pretty complex, so I'm sure it's *doable*, but again, patching is a lot faster than drawing, so I don't know how usable it would be...

It would be cool though, since it's a challenge

and yes, it does get tiring staring at a screen.

It would be cool though, since it's a challenge    

and yes, it does get tiring staring at a screen.


Lucky Choi wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 08:48

It would be nice to be able to carry one's monitor around like a writing tablet rather than a stationary display to which one has no direct physical contact.

I don't quite get what this is all about. I have my screen around all the time (a macbook), the sketch is the patch. Drawing a user interface in Max is already the patch. There is no advantage for me to use paper, rather than just noting some ideas in words...

If you look for example at netbook convertibles, I don't see any need to go back to the stone age...

The big advantage of a data flow language is that you don't need any flow chart. The patch is already a flow chart... (more or less...;-)

Lucky Choi wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 08:48It would be nice to be able to carry one's monitor around like a writing tablet rather than a stationary display to which one has no direct physical contact.

I don't quite get what this is all about. I have my screen around all the time (a macbook), the sketch is the patch. Drawing a user interface in Max is already the patch. There is no advantage for me to use paper, rather than just noting some ideas in words...
If you look for example at netbook convertibles, I don't see any need to go back to the stone age...
The big advantage of a data flow language is that you don't need any flow chart. The patch is already a flow chart... (more or less...;-)

It's a by-product of the trees they chop to create more space. It's rumored to have had a use too, but nobody really knows how, there are no records of it in any history drive.

stefantiedje wrote on Mon, 12 October 2009 06:38

I don't quite get what this is all about.

I refer you to the help file of the degrade object

stefantiedje wrote on Mon, 12 October 2009 06:38I don't quite get what this is all about. 

I refer you to the help file of the degrade object


stefantiedje wrote on Mon, 12 October 2009 05:38

I don't quite get what this is all about. I have my screen around all the time (a macbook), the sketch is the patch. Drawing a user interface in Max is already the patch. There is no advantage for me to use paper...I don't see any need to go back to the stone age...The patch is already a flow chart

Yes, in the original post there was mention about paper, and your points are well-taken. I think, however, that we're moved on from that towards something more ideal. In dreaming up a possible future with Max, here's my 10 cents worth:

Imagine, creating your patch in Max without having to rely your keyboard or mouse except on rare occasions. Your entire patch could be drawn with a minimal amount of "shorthand" symbols drawn right on the screen itself along with voice recognition enabled commands. The Max interface would provide you with fast, easy and intuitive ways to enter properties; arguments and such without have to resort to an accessory, although the option to do would still be available. The only object you might have in hand is a stylus with which you communicate directly with the screen, in other words, face to face with your computer.

It's another step closer to the way I think humans communicate best. Having built a world of technology that only partially mimics life, have we, the users, amazingly adaptable as humans can be, come to mimic the shortcomings of our own creation? 

stefantiedje wrote on Mon, 12 October 2009 05:38
I don't quite get what this is all about. I have my screen around all the time (a macbook), the sketch is the patch. Drawing a user interface in Max is already the patch. There is no advantage for me to use paper...I don't see any need to go back to the stone age...The patch is already a flow chart 

Yes, in the original post there was mention about paper, and your points are well-taken.  I think, however, that we're moved on from that towards something more ideal. In dreaming up a possible future with Max, here's my 10 cents worth:

Imagine, creating your patch in Max without having to rely your keyboard or mouse except on rare occasions. Your entire patch could be drawn with a minimal amount of  "shorthand" symbols drawn right on the screen itself along with voice recognition enabled commands. The Max interface would provide you with fast, easy and intuitive ways to enter properties; arguments and such without have to resort to an accessory, although the option to do would still be available. The only object you might have in hand is a stylus with which you communicate directly with the screen, in other words, face to face with your computer. 

FOOD FOR THOUGHT
It's another step closer to the way I think humans communicate best. Having built a world of technology that only partially mimics life, have we, the users, amazingly adaptable as humans can be, come to mimic the shortcomings of our own creation?   


sketching a patch