dlehrich@gmail.com

My apologies if this has come up before... I searched the archives and didn't find anything that seemed particularly relevant.

I just picked up a new MacBookPro, and I'm looking for an external harddrive (USB 2.0) that would be well suited for live performance. I'll want to play audio and video files off the drive, and record to it as well.

Does anyone have any recommendations or wisdom to share in this area? I know I need a 7200 rpm drive, but other than that I'm not sure. Size isn't as important, but I'd prefer a minimum of 100 GB.

I just picked up a new MacBookPro, and I'm looking for an external harddrive (USB 2.0) that would be well suited for live performance.  I'll want to play audio and video files off the drive, and record to it as well.

Does anyone have any recommendations or wisdom to share in this area?  I know I need a 7200 rpm drive, but other than that I'm not sure.  Size isn't as important, but I'd prefer a minimum of 100 GB.

slighty-ot-best-usb-2-0-harddrive-for-live-performance

I would recommend you not to choose an USB Hard disk for Live performance.

Get a Firewire HD instead: it's more reliable. Put the HD after your FW 

Good FW HDs are G-Tech or Lacie Quadra ..

Subject: [maxmsp] [slighty OT] best USB 2.0 Harddrive for live performance?

> My apologies if this has come up before... I searched the archives and 

> didn't find anything that seemed particularly relevant.

> I just picked up a new MacBookPro, and I'm looking for an external 

> harddrive (USB 2.0) that would be well suited for live performance. I'll 

> want to play audio and video files off the drive, and record to it as 

> Does anyone have any recommendations or wisdom to share in this area? I 

> know I need a 7200 rpm drive, but other than that I'm not sure. Size 

> isn't as important, but I'd prefer a minimum of 100 GB.

I would recommend you not to choose an USB Hard disk for Live performance.
Get a Firewire HD instead: it's more reliable. Put the HD after your FW 
soundcard (in the firewire chain).
Good FW HDs are G-Tech or Lacie Quadra ..
bye

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dan" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 7:55 AM
Subject: [maxmsp] [slighty OT] best USB 2.0 Harddrive for live performance?

>
> My apologies if this has come up before... I searched the archives and 
> didn't find anything that seemed particularly relevant.
>
> I just picked up a new MacBookPro, and I'm looking for an external 
> harddrive (USB 2.0) that would be well suited for live performance.  I'll 
> want to play audio and video files off the drive, and record to it as 
> well.
>
> Does anyone have any recommendations or wisdom to share in this area?  I 
> know I need a 7200 rpm drive, but other than that I'm not sure.  Size 
> isn't as important, but I'd prefer a minimum of 100 GB.
>
> Thanks,
> Dan


Any particular reason to avoid a USB hard drive? I was under the impression that USB2.0 was actually pretty fast (although I'm not much of an expert in that area). My MacBook has a single firewire port, and I'm using a Firewire interface (MAudio FireWire 410). I was under the impression that daisy-chaining a harddrive would actually result in reduced performance...?

Quote: carlo-laurenzi wrote on Wed, 15 August 2007 04:50

----------------------------------------------------

> I would recommend you not to choose an USB Hard disk for Live performance.

> Get a Firewire HD instead: it's more reliable. Put the HD after your FW 

> Good FW HDs are G-Tech or Lacie Quadra ..

Any particular reason to avoid a USB hard drive?  I was under the impression that USB2.0 was actually pretty fast (although I'm not much of an expert in that area).  My MacBook has a single firewire port, and I'm using a Firewire interface (MAudio FireWire 410).  I was under the impression that daisy-chaining a harddrive would actually result in reduced performance...?

Quote: carlo-laurenzi wrote on Wed, 15 August 2007 04:50
----------------------------------------------------
> I would recommend you not to choose an USB Hard disk for Live performance.
> Get a Firewire HD instead: it's more reliable. Put the HD after your FW 
> soundcard (in the firewire chain).
> Good FW HDs are G-Tech or Lacie Quadra ..
> bye
>
> Carlo


>Any particular reason to avoid a USB hard drive? I was under the 

>impression that USB2.0 was actually pretty fast (although I'm not 

>much of an expert in that area). My MacBook has a single firewire 

>port, and I'm using a Firewire interface (MAudio FireWire 410). I 

>was under the impression that daisy-chaining a harddrive would 

>actually result in reduced performance...?

not really , but i feel in mac World USB have a bad reputation, 

from what i know usb 2 is slightly faster than FW (which usb1 is not at all)

on many mac forums there is this "slightly anti-usb" attitude

>Any particular reason to avoid a USB hard drive?  I was under the 
>impression that USB2.0 was actually pretty fast (although I'm not 
>much of an expert in that area).  My MacBook has a single firewire 
>port, and I'm using a Firewire interface (MAudio FireWire 410).  I 
>was under the impression that daisy-chaining a harddrive would 
>actually result in reduced performance...?
>
>Any ideas?
>

not really , but i feel in mac World USB have  a bad reputation, 
maybe because usb 2  came late

kasper
-- 
  Kasper T. Toeplitz
noise, composition, bass, computer
http://www.sleazeArt.com

At 8:37 PM +0200 8/15/07, Kasper T Toeplitz wrote:

>not really , but i feel in mac World USB have a bad reputation, maybe because usb 2 came late

>from what i know usb 2 is slightly faster than FW (which usb1 is not at all)

>on many mac forums there is this "slightly anti-usb" attitude

It's not really a bias. It's an opinion firmly based on measurements. Firewire 400 is faster than USB 2, and by a fair amount.

A Google search will show many benchmarks that show that Firewire is faster:

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=firewire+vs.+usb&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

I have a few multi-interface drives (FW400 & USB2), and the speed difference is quite perceivable between the two interfaces.

I'm not bashing USB here, I use it for many things: graphics tablets, controllers, etc. Hard drive and audio interfaces are not good candidates for USB. They will work, but the performance is not nearly as good.

Chris Muir | "There are many futures and only one status quo.

cbm@well.com | This is why conservatives mostly agree,

 | and radicals always argue." - Brian Eno

At 8:37 PM +0200 8/15/07, Kasper T Toeplitz wrote:
>not really , but i feel in mac World USB have  a bad reputation, maybe because usb 2  came late
>
>from what i know usb 2 is slightly faster than FW (which usb1 is not at all)
>
>on many mac forums there is this "slightly anti-usb" attitude

A Google search will show many benchmarks that show that Firewire is faster:
http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=firewire+vs.+usb&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

-- 
Chris Muir           | "There are many futures and only one status quo.
cbm@well.com         |  This is why conservatives mostly agree,
http://www.xfade.com |  and radicals always argue." - Brian Eno


Fwiw, I experienced occasional audio dropouts when using a USB drive with an

iTunes server, but have had none since changing to a FW drive.

The drive I'm using is a Western Digital MyBook, which I chose because it's

nice and quiet. If noise is an issue to you, a colleague has a Freecom USB 2

And if you're set on USB 2, Dabs.com have 250GB Western Digital USB2 drives

> Any particular reason to avoid a USB hard drive? I was under the impression

> that USB2.0 was actually pretty fast (although I'm not much of an expert in

> that area). My MacBook has a single firewire port, and I'm using a Firewire

> interface (MAudio FireWire 410). I was under the impression that

> daisy-chaining a harddrive would actually result in reduced performance...?

> Quote: carlo-laurenzi wrote on Wed, 15 August 2007 04:50

> ----------------------------------------------------

>> I would recommend you not to choose an USB Hard disk for Live performance.

>> Get a Firewire HD instead: it's more reliable. Put the HD after your FW

>> Good FW HDs are G-Tech or Lacie Quadra ..

Fwiw, I experienced occasional audio dropouts when using a USB drive with an
iTunes server, but have had none since changing to a FW drive.
 The drive I'm using is a Western Digital MyBook, which I chose because it's
nice and quiet. If noise is an issue to you, a colleague has a Freecom USB 2
drive which is even quieter.
 And if you're set on USB 2, Dabs.com have 250GB Western Digital USB2 drives
at an extremely attractive price atm...
Cheers
Roger

>
> Any particular reason to avoid a USB hard drive?  I was under the impression
> that USB2.0 was actually pretty fast (although I'm not much of an expert in
> that area).  My MacBook has a single firewire port, and I'm using a Firewire
> interface (MAudio FireWire 410).  I was under the impression that
> daisy-chaining a harddrive would actually result in reduced performance...?
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Thanks
> /dan
>
> Quote: carlo-laurenzi wrote on Wed, 15 August 2007 04:50
> ----------------------------------------------------
>> I would recommend you not to choose an USB Hard disk for Live performance.
>> Get a Firewire HD instead: it's more reliable. Put the HD after your FW
>> soundcard (in the firewire chain).
>> Good FW HDs are G-Tech or Lacie Quadra ..
>> bye
>>
>> Carlo
>

One of the biggest issues is that USB has not provision for dealing with timing information, which makes it pretty crappy for audio/video applications. It may be fast copying files, but it's kind of poop for audio.

Thanks guys for all your input... I think you've sufficiently convinced me to reconsider

My big question on the Firewire harddrive is - should I be concerned about having my harddrive and audio interface daisy-chained into a single Firewire port? Will this cause any latency or instability issues?

My big question on the Firewire harddrive is - should I be concerned about having my harddrive and audio interface daisy-chained into a single Firewire port?  Will this cause any latency or instability issues?

It really depends on the interface. The RME Fireface interfaces (400 and 800) both have built-in capacity to negotiate control of the drive, afaik, so those interfaces would definitely be your best bet. Your mileage may vary with other interfaces. I've found M-Audio interfaces basically useless when shared on the same firewire port as a hard drive (and they make a point of stating this on their FW devices). Sad but true... In fact, I'm having to run a sample drive off a USB interface for this very reason, when using my Macbook. And guess what, it works like crap! ;-) 

Ultimately, it will depend on exactly how hard you're working the drive.

It really depends on the interface. The RME Fireface interfaces (400 and 800) both have built-in capacity to negotiate control of the drive, afaik, so those interfaces would definitely be your best bet. Your mileage may vary with other interfaces. I've found M-Audio interfaces basically useless when shared on the same firewire port as a hard drive (and they make a point of stating this on their FW devices). Sad but true... In fact, I'm having to run a sample drive off a USB interface for this very reason, when using my Macbook. And guess what, it works like crap! ;-) 
But for now it will have to do.
Ultimately, it will depend on exactly how hard you're working the drive.

>My big question on the Firewire harddrive is - should I be concerned about having my harddrive and audio interface daisy-chained into a single Firewire port? Will this cause any latency or instability issues?

The only issue I know of is that FW400 can bring FW800 drives down to FW400 speeds if daisy chained.

I think that a reasonable number of daisy chained devices are fine, although short cords should be used. I regularly have 3-4 devices daisy chained. On my desktop machine I have a FW Hub, which makes re-configuring somewhat easier, but is totally optional.

At 2:18 PM -0600 8/15/07, Dan wrote:
>My big question on the Firewire harddrive is - should I be concerned about having my harddrive and audio interface daisy-chained into a single Firewire port?  Will this cause any latency or instability issues?

I use a Saffire Pro connected to a Firewire hub, with 2 FW drives 

also hanging off thehub, and it's worked fine so far. I've also used 

a FW drive chained to a Firebox, and that has also been fine (6 track 

On 15 Aug 2007, at 22:34, Chris Muir wrote:

>> My big question on the Firewire harddrive is - should I be 

>> concerned about having my harddrive and audio interface daisy- 

>> chained into a single Firewire port? Will this cause any latency 

> The only issue I know of is that FW400 can bring FW800 drives down 

> I think that a reasonable number of daisy chained devices are fine, 

> although short cords should be used. I regularly have 3-4 devices 

> daisy chained. On my desktop machine I have a FW Hub, which makes 

> re-configuring somewhat easier, but is totally optional.

> Chris Muir | "There are many futures and only one status 

> cbm@well.com | This is why conservatives mostly agree,

I use a Saffire Pro connected to a Firewire hub, with 2 FW drives  
also hanging off thehub, and it's worked fine so far. I've also used  
a FW drive chained to a Firebox, and that has also been fine (6 track  
simultaneous record in Cubase SX).

> At 2:18 PM -0600 8/15/07, Dan wrote:
>> My big question on the Firewire harddrive is - should I be  
>> concerned about having my harddrive and audio interface daisy- 
>> chained into a single Firewire port?  Will this cause any latency  
>> or instability issues?
>
> The only issue I know of is that FW400 can bring FW800 drives down  
> to FW400 speeds if daisy chained.
>
> I think that a reasonable number of daisy chained devices are fine,  
> although short cords should be used. I regularly have 3-4 devices  
> daisy chained. On my desktop machine I have a FW Hub, which makes  
> re-configuring somewhat easier, but is totally optional.
>
> -C
>
> -- 
> Chris Muir           | "There are many futures and only one status  
> quo.
> cbm@well.com         |  This is why conservatives mostly agree,
> http://www.xfade.com |  and radicals always argue." - Brian Eno


Digidesign recommends that their 002 interface be on the end of a 

chain, even though it has a loop-through FW port on it. Go figure. I 

regularly run a Digi 002 off a FW hub without problems.

> Thanks guys for all your input... I think you've sufficiently 

> My big question on the Firewire harddrive is - should I be 

> concerned about having my harddrive and audio interface daisy- 

> chained into a single Firewire port? Will this cause any latency 

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Digidesign recommends that their 002 interface be on the end of a  
chain, even though it has a loop-through FW port on it. Go figure. I  
regularly run a Digi 002 off a FW hub without problems.

>
> Thanks guys for all your input... I think you've sufficiently  
> convinced me to reconsider
>
> My big question on the Firewire harddrive is - should I be  
> concerned about having my harddrive and audio interface daisy- 
> chained into a single Firewire port?  Will this cause any latency  
> or instability issues?
>
> Thanks again
> /dan

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Thanks to everyone for the input. I'm stuck with my MAudio Firewire 410 and my MacBookPro with only a single FW400 port so it looks like I have some tough choices to make. I'd love to throw down for an RME interface but it's not really in my budget right now. I wonder, Firewire drive daisy-chained to the unreliable 410, or a harddrive connected to an unreliable USB2 connection. Tough choices...

Thanks to everyone for the input.  I'm stuck with my MAudio Firewire 410 and my MacBookPro with only a single FW400 port so it looks like I have some tough choices to make.  I'd love to throw down for an RME interface but it's not really in my budget right now.  I wonder, Firewire drive daisy-chained to the unreliable 410, or a harddrive connected to an unreliable USB2 connection.  Tough choices...

Plan B: audio interface on the internal firewire port, external FW drive on a firewire expresscard. FW800 if you want, much faster than even FW400.

I use a FW800 cardbus card to get an additional FW800 port on my ageing titanium powerbook, and run an RME Fireface on the internal FW400 port. It's been really really really solid.

Plan B: audio interface on the internal firewire port, external FW drive on a firewire expresscard. FW800 if you want, much faster than even FW400. 

I use a FW800 cardbus card to get an additional FW800 port on my ageing titanium powerbook, and run an RME Fireface on the internal FW400 port. It's been really really really solid.
