When I started using Jitter I encountered a serious playback ‘hiccup’ or ‘stutter’, when playing even 1- 640×480 photojpeg (med quality) movie.

- I tested GPU & CPU based example patches.
- I made super simple patches as well.
(1 jit.qt.movie & jit.window or jit.qt.movie & videplane)
- I’ve tried RAM loading & RAM Disks.
- tried metro, qmetro, qlim
- tried tweaking Performance settings for Max
- tried standalone apps

NO MOVIES will play smoothly, PERIOD.

Even when mixing 5 video streams on GPU, the stutter happens at similar intervals, in each movie.

I’ve tried every optimization, read every tutorial, downloaded every sample I could find, read every thread on playback issues –
( just mentioned this to avoid replies like “did you read the manual” o r” id you try the eample patches”. I have. I’ve spent hours and hours researching)

– OR, of course – is it this machine?
(Mac 17″ 2.4 10.4.10/ 2gb ram / 256 – GeForce 8600M GT, had last version of QT – and recently tried 7.3.0)

- I optimized the OS – cut every CPU task I could (SpotLight, Dashboard Network, OS window shadows, etc etc -)

still the same jump in playback every 3 – 4 seconds a stutter.

I then tried the example patches on 3 diferent G5s (dual 2.0 & quad core & intel G5) -all with same results!!!

Dont mean to be a wise ass here, but – Is this where the name Jitter comes from?

The stutter is very visible, in my opinion unacceptable for producing DVDs or exhibition – and I just cant believe other artists would just live with this!?

—- Support —-

so then I turned to Cycling74 – and their response was to give a detailed account /specs etc. – I did & took 2 hours explaining/writing, etc.

the got a simple, deadend, frustrating, response from Andrew B:

“Smooth playback is one of the things that we will be
exploring as we develop future versions of Jitter.”

Does this mean when it was released ( for $$$) it wasnt even playing 1 movie “smoothly”?! – it wasnt explored prior to selling the software?

—-

I’ve read many threads on low-priority queue – threading etc –
and even read about the video card being “underclocked” by apple for design / heat reasons. – that it runs better, faster on PC’s

SO –

I was wondering if anyone has tested or regularly runs Max/Jitter in Windows Vista on a MBPro – and if the video playback is better? (different drivers, and more control over video card)

As I’ve just invested over 4000$ buying this machine FOR live video + 2 weeks developing, I jast cant afford to spend $ and time buying Vista & installing etc, just to realize theres no improvement – the stutter is still there…

thanks in advance for any help in this matter – I have hit a brick wall and am running out of time for product on a project!

thanks-
jt

however, playing back 1 640×480 movie without stutter should not be a problem.

try the following patch, which has several optimizations for qt playback, and see if you get better results with some 640 x 480 photo-jpeg clips.

#P window setfont “Sans Serif” 9.;
#P flonum 265 107 35 9 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P window linecount 1;
#P message 265 130 79 196617 param scale $1;
#P flonum 372 107 35 9 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P message 372 130 73 196617 param bias $1;
#P newex 251 152 318 196617 jit.gl.slab foo @colormode uyvy @file cc.scalebias.jxs @automatic 1;
#P number 125 148 35 9 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P message 125 167 101 196617 transform_reset $1;
#P message 154 54 33 196617 start;
#P user jit.fpsgui 153 245 60 196617 0;
#P message 78 268 68 196617 fullscreen $1;
#P toggle 62 268 15 0;
#P newex 103 243 35 196617 sel 27;
#P newex 62 243 40 196617 key;
#P newex 62 288 200 196617 jit.window foo 640 480 @colormode uyvy;
#P newex 62 221 123 196617 jit.gl.render foo @sync 0;
#P newex 82 196 387 196617 jit.gl.videoplane foo @dim 2 2 @transform_reset 2 @automatic 0 @colormode uyvy;
#P newex 62 109 71 196617 t b b erase l;
#P message 122 54 30 196617 read;
#P toggle 62 32 15 0;
#P newex 62 54 57 196617 qmetro 20;
#P newex 62 85 305 196617 jit.qt.movie 640 480 @unique 1 @highquality 1 @colormode uyvy;
#P connect 2 0 1 0;
#P connect 1 0 0 0;
#P connect 4 0 6 0;
#P fasten 4 0 5 0 67 179 87 179;
#P fasten 16 0 5 0 256 186 87 186;
#P connect 4 1 5 0;
#P fasten 14 0 5 0 130 191 87 191;
#P fasten 4 3 16 0 127 143 256 143;
#P fasten 19 0 16 0 270 148 256 148;
#P fasten 17 0 16 0 377 150 256 150;
#P connect 13 0 0 0;
#P connect 3 0 0 0;
#P connect 0 0 4 0;
#P fasten 4 2 6 0 107 164 67 164;
#P fasten 9 0 10 0 108 265 67 265;
#P fasten 11 0 7 0 83 285 67 285;
#P fasten 10 0 11 0 77 283 77 268;
#P fasten 8 0 9 0 102 260 102 245;
#P connect 15 0 14 0;
#P fasten 6 0 12 0 67 241 158 241;
#P connect 20 0 19 0;
#P connect 18 0 17 0;
#P window clipboard copycount 21;

>don’t think xp or vista will make much of a difference.

it certainly was a last resort idea – I read a thread about GL problems w GeForce 8600M GT on the MacBook Pro 2.4 17″ – something about ‘underclokcing’ – there was also mention that the GeForce in Windows has a control panel with many settings – I was thinking I may be able to dig around there /

I’m sure there a few users out there with same machine & set up that I have – Is anyone else experiencing this problem?

-
maybe some CPU clock OS thing running thats causing the hiccup?

in the meantime, the most effective playback I got is with NTSC encoded
Material. It is way better than PAL performance. Stupid? Yes, but try it.

Windows Machines are not better, try bootcamp if you like.
David Rockeby is also working on softVNS for Intel. I wonder who will
win the race.

John.

james schrieb:
> thanks for your response -
> I tried this patch, and the jumpy playback is still there –
>
>> don’t think xp or vista will make much of a difference.
>
> it certainly was a last resort idea – I read a thread about GL problems w GeForce 8600M GT on the MacBook Pro 2.4 17″ – something about ‘underclokcing’ – there was also mention that the GeForce in Windows has a control panel with many settings – I was thinking I may be able to dig around there /
>
>
> I’m sure there a few users out there with same machine & set up that I have – Is anyone else experiencing this problem?
>
> –
> maybe some CPU clock OS thing running thats causing the hiccup?
>
>
>

jb

Am 14.11.2007 um 12:24 schrieb John Dekron:

> I promised to buy some beers for Jeremy and Joshua they promised to
> look into the problem as soon as Max 5 is released

>but we are intending to look closely at this issue at some point

at some point?
This problem makes ALL (!!!) output form Jitter unusable.
flat out. no work arounds.

Is there a get this addresses asap?

I’ve now spoken/emailed with others, that are having the same problem, and they’re quite disappointed with the lack of interest/attention by Cycling74 on this matter.

In my opinion, this is an absolute priority issue.
please fix this!!!

my work with max/jitter and consequently all my live video production work has stopped dead in its tracks because of this.

I’ll buy a months work and drop ship to the office in SF if you get this fixed!!!!!!
promise.

er, that’s a bit dramatic.
with the patch i gave to you, i can playback a 640×480 movie with no hiccups and no stuttering.

is your movie exported with a very high data rate perhaps?

In actual fact, this particular issue is of great concern for those of us in Cycling ’74 that work on the Jitter project, and we sincerely hope to be able to fix it soon. We have had numerous internal discussions about possible causes or solutions. Nevertheless, at this moment all of our development resources as a company are devoted to finishing Max 5 as soon as we can. Cycling ’74 is a small software company with a very small team of full-time engineers, and sometimes we need to focus our efforts on finishing one project before we can address issues with another one.

Please know that we take everyone’s bug reports and messages to the forum very seriously, even when you don’t hear us chiming in. I promise you that this issue is being researched and hopefully resolved for a future version of Jitter.

Thanks for your patience.

Best regards,

Andrew Benson
–
Cycling ’74 Support

- well, from the initial response thru c74 support weeks ago, I DID get the impression that it was not priority. The reposne to my detailed email/report after being told to send that by phone support – was minimal, general, and inconclusive… which led me to nearly a week of testing, digging around etc.

as many others have also experienced.
SO, a mention in the response that it was important and a priority would’ve at least saved me hours and hours of valuable time.

maybe a general posting about this, officially!!!, so others dont waste the time as well is in order?
(maybe it will hurt sales(?), but thats business right?)

–

some people report smooth playback/”no problems on my machine” -(without posted machine/system specs etc)

What machine are you using? / version of Max / video card / etc – I’d like to know, I’d go buy your setup tomorrow if I could confirm this problem is machine specific – (prob with my MBP)

I’ve tested on 5 differnt machines (ppc g5′s, intel g5, powerbook & macbook pro)
same problem everywhere!
even different recent versions of Quicktime.

-
whereever I can run my VNS patches, they play super smooth – no hiccups.

> with the patch i gave to you, i can playback a 640×480 movie
> with no hiccups and no stuttering.
I wish :)

>
> is your movie exported with a very high data rate perhaps?
nope – med quality 720 480 photojpeg / 30fps

Id say this is pretty decent.

What ive found HAS to be done to get things working well when dealing
with any fairly large video sizes.

Performance Options:
Set UI update to a measly 5 Hz

Overdrive On
UYVY to OpenGL

jit.qt.movies with @unique 1

jit.gl.slab @file cc.uyvy2rgba.jxs for UYVY 2 rgba conversion

faith.

:)

On Nov 16, 2007, at 7:06 PM, Robert Ramirez wrote:

>
>> This problem makes ALL (!!!) output form Jitter unusable.
>> flat out. no work arounds.
>
> er, that’s a bit dramatic.
> with the patch i gave to you, i can playback a 640×480 movie with no
> hiccups and no stuttering.
>
> is your movie exported with a very high data rate perhaps?

> barely noticeable unless you look for it
well, this could vary from video to video – depending on the content.
I am working on a piece with VERY steady motion control camera tracking, and the jumps in jitter playback are very obvious – to anyone -
on the other hand, some of my other other abstract clips, yes, its hard to notice, but still there.

I’m workin on 2 DVD projects recording live video performances, so the masters containing this glitch is unacceptable by my standards :) ..for me – it ruins camera work – and overal impact of the piece.

– 1 720×480 photojpeg video stream on my old titanium 500mhz using Max and NATO plays back smoother than my brand new MBP!!

—-

re “faith” – :)
well, i had faith when I jumped into my switch from VNS to Jitter – as I read and heard many good things about Jitter I certainly assumed 1 movie would be smooth – but, well…

hmmm? seems like its not this machine, its Jitter!?
so confusing.
-

anyone out there running this exact setup:
MacBookPro 2.4 17″
10.4.10
256 GeForce 8600M GT
2GB RAM
MAX 4.6.3 / Jitter 1.6.3
Quicktime 7.3.0
(problem also was on last version of QT as well)

* all the obvious CPU optimizations have been tried / dashboard/sotlight / shadows all killed ..etc

—

I realize this may just be a Jitter problem, but I cant rest until I know I’ve tried everything… :)
thanks in advance//

—

On Nov 16, 2007, at 10:07 PM, james wrote:

>
> I just made a standalone on a non-intel G5 – with 5 – 640 480
> softVNS streams mixed to one output / ram loaded the movies – and
> opened that on my MBP 2.4 17″ – video clips playback perfectly.
>
> hmmm? seems like its not this machine, its Jitter!?
> so confusing.
> -
>
> anyone out there running this exact setup:
> MacBookPro 2.4 17″
> 10.4.10
> 256 GeForce 8600M GT
> 2GB RAM
> MAX 4.6.3 / Jitter 1.6.3
> Quicktime 7.3.0
> (problem also was on last version of QT as well)
>
>
> * all the obvious CPU optimizations have been tried / dashboard/
> sotlight / shadows all killed ..etc
>
> —
>
> I realize this may just be a Jitter problem, but I cant rest until I
> know I’ve tried everything… :)
> thanks in advance//
>
>
>
>
> —

—

Quartz Composer playback is perfect / but building my live app/patches – its just not ready for that :)

—

I wonder.. whats the different between how softVNS plays back/controls quicktime – VS – Jitter?
why is there any difference?
isnt it all the same commands etc underneath??

On Nov 16, 2007, at 11:19 PM, james wrote:

> Quartz Composer playback is perfect / but building my live app/
> patches – its just not ready for that :)

>
> I’m workin on 2 DVD projects recording live video performances, so the
> masters containing this glitch is unacceptable by my standards :) ..for me -
> it ruins camera work – and overal impact of the piece.
>
>

Hi James,

Have you considered using offline rendering? I get the impression you’re not
doing any live editing on this piece. It is possible to render your final
master frame by frame using something similar to render_node:

http://www.2uptech.com/render_node.html

It might require some work to make your patches compatible though.

My 2c,
Thijs

mmm interesting, i’ve never tried this before..this one i can set with the message:
[;max enablerefresh 1,setrefreshrate $1]..?
thanks a lot

On Nov 17, 2007, at 3:06 AM, vade wrote:

> Well, Id just like to say I am currently using Jitter to drive 4
> projectors off of a single machine, bringing in 720p HD over HDMI @
> uyvy and playing back a 2460×480 pixel movie with UYVY + shader
> mixing, simultaneously, with midi input/control, at a pretty solid
> 30fps. Framerate does judder a bit, but I can say it is barely
> noticeable unless you look for it. I was surprised it was not as bad
> as I had usually experienced. This was on a quad intel @ 2.66.
>
> Id say this is pretty decent.
>
> What ive found HAS to be done to get things working well when
> dealing with any fairly large video sizes.
>
> Performance Options:
> Set UI update to a measly 5 Hz
>
> Overdrive On
> UYVY to OpenGL
>
> jit.qt.movies with @unique 1
>
> jit.gl.slab @file cc.uyvy2rgba.jxs for UYVY 2 rgba conversion
>
> faith.
>
> :)
>
> On Nov 16, 2007, at 7:06 PM, Robert Ramirez wrote:
>
>>
>>> This problem makes ALL (!!!) output form Jitter unusable.
>>> flat out. no work arounds.
>>
>> er, that’s a bit dramatic.
>> with the patch i gave to you, i can playback a 640×480 movie with
>> no hiccups and no stuttering.
>>
>> is your movie exported with a very high data rate perhaps?
>

Telcosystems
PO box 174
3000 AD
Rotterdam
http://www.telcosystems.net
info@telcosystems.net

nice tips on optimization… the @unique thing defineatly helps immediately…

Vade can you go into more details on the UYVY to OpenGl thing. I have a patch I’ve been working on… it uses incoming video data from a firewire camera this gets some slab processing (your v001.film-technicolor3. so nice!! and the kaleido.jxs) and goes to a gl.mesh for further processing. The problem is with any video >320×240 all I can get is 20fps. My cpu is around 40% and gpu is 13%… 30fps @720×480 would be idea. Anywho any tips would greatly be appreciated.

t

Well, jit.qt.grab can do @colormode uyvy, so the patch might be
something like

1 qmetro 33
2 jit.qt.grab 720 480 @colormode uyvy
3 jit.gl.slab @file cc.uyvy2rgba.jxs
@dimscale 2. 1.
4 insert slab processing here if you want
5 jit.gl.texture @name mytexturename

and you can then send ‘texture mytexturename’ to the mesh.

# 3 converts UYVY to RGBA on the GPU with the shader. @dimscale makes
sure that the chroma macro pixel voodoo works.
#4, you’d put whatever slab chain stuff you want,
#5, it sounds like you want to texture your geometry, which you could
do by sending the output of your slab chain, or by making a named
texture and referencing however you want.

HTH,

On Nov 21, 2007, at 8:02 PM, Tyler Nitsch wrote:

>
> Vade.. Rob…
>
> nice tips on optimization… the @unique thing defineatly helps
> immediately…
>
> Vade can you go into more details on the UYVY to OpenGl thing. I
> have a patch I’ve been working on… it uses incoming video data
> from a firewire camera this gets some slab processing (your
> v001.film-technicolor3. so nice!! and the kaleido.jxs) and goes to a
> gl.mesh for further processing. The problem is with any video
> >320×240 all I can get is 20fps. My cpu is around 40% and gpu is
> 13%… 30fps @720×480 would be idea. Anywho any tips would greatly
> be appreciated.
>
>
> t