usdryad@hotmail.com

Im reading through the setup tutorials and their written as if i should already have a 4 year degree in C programming. I did the tutorial on getting MSP connected to my host app , in my case Nuendo (on windows if that matters), followed it to the letter and im not getting any sound out of my speakers.

https://cycling74.com/story/2006/9/18/121516/485

Of course it never specifies how to do this with nuendo, so i created a midi channel, set the input to my piano and the output to rewire and im still getting nothing. Locked the MSP patch, clicked the audio icon, even rebooted all my progs just to make sure, still nothing.

Though im getting lost as to how im supposed to know MSP is sending anything to nuendo (or recieving anyting for that matter). My midi channel in nuendo covers the first two steps, do i need to create another channel to accept input from MSP? IF so, which channel type do i add: audio, midi, fx, etc...? I will set MSP as the input on this channel, do i need to set an output?

This is so frustrating, how the hell am i supposed to create anything when getting a simple sound out of it is so damn difficult.

Of course it never specifies how to do this with nuendo, so i created a midi channel, set the input to my piano and the output to rewire and im still getting nothing. Locked the MSP patch, clicked the audio icon, even rebooted all my progs just to make sure, still nothing.  

This is so frustrating, how the hell am i supposed to create anything when getting a simple sound out of it is so damn difficult.


so-where-do-i-go-for-help-seeing-that-the-forums-are-dead

I'm guessing from this post and your other thread that you're completely new to Max/MSP, not just new to trying to Rewire it. If that is the case, I'd advise you to start by working with Max/MSP isolated from Nuendo, as it will eliminate at least one of your problems (the one related to getting the two apps to talk to each other).

The first step will be to work your way through the Max tutorials, followed by the MSP tutorials. After completing and understanding those -- well, probably at some point during that process -- you should feel comfortable enough in Max/MSP to go back to working on connecting it to Nuendo.

And yes, you'll need to route the output of Max/MSP back into Nuendo, probably via an audio track. I don't use Nuendo, but I expect there are probably several ways to route audio back from MSP (e.g. audio track, aux inputs, etc.).

I'm guessing from this post and your other thread that you're completely new to Max/MSP, not just new to trying to Rewire it.  If that is the case, I'd advise you to start by working with Max/MSP isolated from Nuendo, as it will eliminate at least one of your problems (the one related to getting the two apps to talk to each other).

The first step will be to work your way through the Max tutorials, followed by the MSP tutorials.  After completing and understanding those -- well, probably at some point during that process -- you should feel comfortable enough in Max/MSP to go back to working on connecting it to Nuendo.

And yes, you'll need to route the output of Max/MSP back into Nuendo, probably via an audio track.  I don't use Nuendo, but I expect there are probably several ways to route audio back from MSP (e.g. audio track, aux inputs, etc.).

With all due respect it looks like you're trying to run before you can walk...you might be better off trying the tutorials supplied with Max/MSP first. Max/MSP is a standalone application which uses it's own audio routing so, to begin with, there's no need to be trying to route your audio to Nuendo because you can send it straight to your soundcard for now.

The online tutorials probably will seem pretty daunting if you've not worked your way through some of the very basic stuff first, but trust me C programming is a hell of a lot harder than anything you'll find in Max ;-)

Max comes supplied with around 45 tutorials, and another 30 or so tutorials for MSP, so if you have a look in your Max program/application folders, (Windows and Mac respectively), you should find folders which relate to the tutorials and example patches. I can't remember their initial paths off the top of my head but as i've moved them from their default position, when installing the application, so looking on my system won't help anyway.

If you can't find them/haven't got them then you can download them from here: 

https://cycling74.com/twiki/bin/view/ProductDocumentation

Just start at number one in the Max folder and work through it with the .pdf manual supplied...it's by far the best documentation i've ever used to learn an application, (which is a good job because it's one hell of an application to learn).

The online tutorials you've been looking at are an extension of the supplied ones, i see them as at an intermediate level, but for them to be of any use you'll first need to have worked through the basics provided with the application, (or downloadable from the link above).

It's a lot to take onboard at first, and understanding the data flow is often a nightmare for beginners, but with a bit of perseverance and dedication there's no reason that in a week or two, (after looking at the supplied tutorials), that you won't be able to knock up a patch and sync it to Nuendo through Rewire.

PS: FWIW, the forums are by no means dead...you'd only had 5 views when i started this reply which strikes me as a thriving community rather than a dead one! It's also my experience that the community will do its utmost to help others with their problems, however people generally prefer to help people who help themselves...and provide as much information about their specific problem/the solution they're looking for. So maybe stating that "the forums are dead" in a thread's title isn't the best approach to start off with ;-) 

If you can't find them/haven't got them then you can download them from here: https://cycling74.com/twiki/bin/view/ProductDocumentation

PS: FWIW, the forums are by no means dead...you'd only had 5 views when i started this reply which strikes me as a thriving community rather than a dead one! It's also my experience that the community will do its utmost to help others with their problems, however people generally prefer to help people who help themselves...and provide as much information about their specific problem/the solution they're looking for. So maybe stating that "the forums are dead" in a thread's title isn't the best approach to start off with ;-) 
(Welcome to the community by the way)


sorry, i just wasnt getting much help with my first thread which were just general questions about max's capabilities, figured no one was on here.

I just finished the getting started pdf (3 days it took!), then im starting on the MSP one since im using this mostly for audio processing, but if you say the max tutorial was meant to be read first then i will do that one. And i know how difficult C is, i took a course in it and barely passed with a D. Ever since i utterly hate computer logic, thats what im hoping using this program isnt like making an algorithm. These tutorials are so much blah blah blah theory and obviously werent written for any practical application. I dont need to know what the "*@#~" function does, i need to know why it would be used and how it will change the sound. Someone needs to rewrite the tutorials for the non-programmer.

anyways, i WILL read the tutorials but i forsee very little of understanding them. I barely got through the getting started, i mean i understood the basic concept but i hope im not supposed to actually remember all those messaage/attribute commands.

btw everytime i post i get this error msg even though it does post it

Please try to refresh this page in your browser to try again. If you continue to see this error, please contact us at support@cycling74.com. "

is this on your end or a problem with firefox2?

sorry, i just wasnt getting much help with my first thread which were just general questions about max's capabilities, figured no one was on here. 

I just finished the getting started pdf (3 days it took!), then im starting on the MSP one since im using this mostly for audio processing, but if you say the max tutorial was meant to be read first then i will do that one. And i know how difficult C is, i took a course in it and barely passed with a D. Ever since i utterly hate computer logic, thats what im hoping using this program isnt like making an algorithm. These tutorials are so much blah blah blah theory and obviously werent written for any practical application. I dont need to know what the "*@#~" function does, i need to know why it would be used and how it will change the sound. Someone needs to rewrite the tutorials for the non-programmer. 

anyways, i WILL read the tutorials but i forsee very little of understanding them. I barely got through the getting started, i mean i understood the basic concept but i hope im not supposed to actually remember all those messaage/attribute commands. 

is this on your end or a problem with firefox2?


Quote: usdryad@hotmail.com wrote on Sat, 16 December 2006 20:15

----------------------------------------------------

> sorry, i just wasnt getting much help with my first thread which were just general questions about max's capabilities, figured no one was on here. 

I think you'll find those initial questions of yours answered in the tutorials, from my memory of your other thread (however, see below).

> I just finished the getting started pdf (3 days it took!), then im starting on the MSP one since im using this mostly for audio processing, but if you say the max tutorial was meant to be read first then i will do that one. And i know how difficult C is, i took a course in it and barely passed with a D. Ever since i utterly hate computer logic, thats what im hoping using this program isnt like making an algorithm. These tutorials are so much blah blah blah theory and obviously werent written for any practical application. I dont need to know what the "*@#~" function does, i need to know why it would be used and how it will change the sound. Someone needs to rewrite the tutorials for the non-programmer. 

I think you may be disappointed in your purchase of Max/MSP if you "utterly hate computer logic." While it's not a programming language, per se, it most definitely is a programming environment. A lot of the low-level coding has been done for you and the environment does allow you to play around with hooking things together in unusual ways, but figuring out how to make Max/MSP do exactly what you want it to do will take a great deal of logic and planning.

I do recommend starting with the Max tutorials, at least enough to learn how the environment works.

> anyways, i WILL read the tutorials but i forsee very little of understanding them. I barely got through the getting started, i mean i understood the basic concept but i hope im not supposed to actually remember all those messaage/attribute commands. 

Well.... maybe not remember. You can always look them up, though I expect you'll memorize many of the basic messages since you'll use them again and again. But again I think that if you really can't/won't understand the tutorials you're not going to have a whole lot of fun with Max/MSP (or be very productive). Making things happen in this environment is considerably more involved than in most mainstream audio environments -- of course, that increase in initial complexity is balanced by the fact that you can do almost anything you want to do in the environment once you learn how to use it.

Quote: usdryad@hotmail.com wrote on Sat, 16 December 2006 20:15
----------------------------------------------------
> sorry, i just wasnt getting much help with my first thread which were just general questions about max's capabilities, figured no one was on here. 
>

> I just finished the getting started pdf (3 days it took!), then im starting on the MSP one since im using this mostly for audio processing, but if you say the max tutorial was meant to be read first then i will do that one. And i know how difficult C is, i took a course in it and barely passed with a D. Ever since i utterly hate computer logic, thats what im hoping using this program isnt like making an algorithm. These tutorials are so much blah blah blah theory and obviously werent written for any practical application. I dont need to know what the "*@#~" function does, i need to know why it would be used and how it will change the sound. Someone needs to rewrite the tutorials for the non-programmer. 
>

I think you may be disappointed in your purchase of Max/MSP if you "utterly hate computer logic."  While it's not a programming language, per se, it most definitely is a programming environment.  A lot of the low-level coding has been done for you and the environment does allow you to play around with hooking things together in unusual ways, but figuring out how to make Max/MSP do exactly what you want it to do will take a great deal of logic and planning.

> anyways, i WILL read the tutorials but i forsee very little of understanding them. I barely got through the getting started, i mean i understood the basic concept but i hope im not supposed to actually remember all those messaage/attribute commands. 
>

Well.... maybe not remember.  You can always look them up, though I expect you'll memorize many of the basic messages since you'll use them again and again.  But again I think that if you really can't/won't understand the tutorials you're not going to have a whole lot of fun with Max/MSP (or be very productive).  Making things happen in this environment is considerably more involved than in most mainstream audio environments -- of course, that increase in initial complexity is balanced by the fact that you can do almost anything you want to do in the environment once you learn how to use it.

Quote: usdryad@hotmail.com wrote on Sat, 16 December 2006 21:15

I dont need to know what the "*@#~" function does, i need to know why it would be used and how it will change the sound. Someone needs to rewrite the tutorials for the non-programmer. 

This could be why you haven't gotten much response.

So many people use Max/MSP because one *doesn't* need to be a programmer to use it well. Most will tell you that the documentation and help files that are supplied with the software are among the best and most helpful you will find anywhere. The brief explanations about MIDI and audio basics are there for those without that background, and are written comprehensibly, succinctly, and provide the fastest road to practical usage that I have seen. Compare to any book on the topic (Roads, etc.) and you'll see what I mean. Max and MSP is a great place for students to begin with any kind of work in computer music processing for that reason.

Granted, it is frustrating for many beginners to take the time to get through the early Max tutorials, and some have a hard time getting the whole message box thing straight (hence the tutorials...), but if you invest the time up front, it saves you a great deal of frustration.

Now, practical advice. I would not spend too much time with GettingStarted and Fundamentals--just enough to get to know what's in there so you can refer back to it when you need. Same goes for Topics and Reference. Spend your time with the Tutorials.

Have you tried using Soundflower instead of rewire for audio routing between apps? I can't tell you much about rewire with MSP since I don't use it.

Quote: usdryad@hotmail.com wrote on Sat, 16 December 2006 21:15
----------------------------------------------------
> sorry, i just wasnt getting much help with my first thread which were just general questions about max's capabilities, figured no one was on here. 
>
I dont need to know what the "*@#~" function does, i need to know why it would be used and how it will change the sound. Someone needs to rewrite the tutorials for the non-programmer. 
----------------------------------------------------

So many people use Max/MSP because one *doesn't* need to be a programmer to use it well.  Most will tell you that the documentation and help files that are supplied with the software are among the best and most helpful you will find anywhere.  The brief explanations about MIDI and audio basics are there for those without that background, and are written comprehensibly, succinctly, and provide the fastest road to practical usage that I have seen.  Compare to any book on the topic (Roads, etc.) and you'll see what I mean.  Max and MSP is a great place for students to begin with any kind of work in computer music processing for that reason.

Now, practical advice.  I would not spend too much time with GettingStarted and Fundamentals--just enough to get to know what's in there so you can refer back to it when you need.  Same goes for Topics and Reference.  Spend your time with the Tutorials.

Have you tried using Soundflower instead of rewire for audio routing between apps?  I can't tell you much about rewire with MSP since I don't use it.

i hope im not supposed to actually remember all those messaage/attribute commands. 

You don't. That's why all the documentation is there. Besides, you can cmd-opt-click (I suppose it's ctl-alt-click on PC) on any object when your in edit mode and get a popup list of all attributes with their current states and messages. Also, don't forget to open the help files if you have issues with any object.

Quote: usdryad@hotmail.com wrote on Sat, 16 December 2006 21:15
----------------------------------------------------
i hope im not supposed to actually remember all those messaage/attribute commands. 
----------------------------------------------------
You don't.  That's why all the documentation is there.  Besides, you can cmd-opt-click (I suppose it's ctl-alt-click on PC) on any object when your in edit mode and get a popup list of all attributes with their current states and messages.  Also, don't forget to open the help files if you have issues with any object.


> sorry, i just wasnt getting much help with my first thread which were 

> just general questions about max's capabilities, figured no one was on

I hadn't checked my maxmsp list folder today, and when I opened it up

there were 95 new messages since I last checked yesterday afternoon

If that's a "dead" forum, I'd hate to see one that was "alive" :-)

And speaking of activity, it looks like the forum had it's most ever

users online at once last Friday, Dec 08. There were 972 users online,

> sorry, i just wasnt getting much help with my first thread which were 
> just general questions about max's capabilities, figured no one was on
here.

I hadn't checked my maxmsp list folder today, and when I opened it up
there were 95 new messages since I last checked yesterday afternoon
around 3:30pm MST.

And speaking of activity, it looks like the forum had it's most ever
users online at once last Friday, Dec 08. There were 972 users online,
logged in and reading the forum. Wow.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/ubbthreads.php

I started on the max tutorials yesterday, i have to admit they were alot easier to understand than the MSP tutorials i had started on before i realized that was the second series.

1000 pages of tutorials though, damn. I wish i had one of those portable e-book readers, or a monitor that didnt hurt to look at, too bad that doesnt exist.

I started on the max tutorials yesterday, i have to admit they were alot easier to understand than the MSP tutorials i had started on before i realized that was the second series. 

1000 pages of tutorials though, damn. I wish i had one of those portable e-book readers, or a monitor that didnt hurt to look at, too bad that doesnt exist.


Speaking of which, I'd love to see a series of images like this

http://www.trinity.edu/jdunn/spiderdrugs.htm)

patches. Next time you patch while high, post the patch and title it

> http://www.shroomery.org/forums/ubbthreads.php

Speaking of which, I'd love to see a series of images like this
(http://www.trinity.edu/jdunn/spiderdrugs.htm) expect with max
patches.  Next time you patch while high, post the patch and title it
with the drug of you were on!

That is a brilliant idea. I will definitely do this and report any 

On Dec 17, 2006, at 10:29 PM, Wesley Smith wrote:

> Speaking of which, I'd love to see a series of images like this

> patches. Next time you patch while high, post the patch and title it

That is a brilliant idea. I will definitely do this and report any  
findings.

>> http://www.shroomery.org/forums/ubbthreads.php
>
> Speaking of which, I'd love to see a series of images like this
> (http://www.trinity.edu/jdunn/spiderdrugs.htm) expect with max
> patches.  Next time you patch while high, post the patch and title it
> with the drug of you were on!
>
> wes

Quote: usdryad@hotmail.com wrote on Sun, 17 December 2006 03:15

> btw everytime i post i get this error msg even though it does post it

> Please try to refresh this page in your browser to try again. If you continue to see this error, please contact us at support@cycling74.com. "

> is this on your end or a problem with firefox2?

I have the same problem when I'm on a pc with FireFox. When you refresh the page as the message suggests, the post is submitted again. I have seen several double posts on this forum that I imagine are due to the same issue.

Quote: usdryad@hotmail.com wrote on Sun, 17 December 2006 03:15
----------------------------------------------------
> btw everytime i post i get this error msg even though it does post it
>
> "An Error Occurred
>
> Please try to refresh this page in your browser to try again. If you continue to see this error, please contact us at support@cycling74.com. "
>
> is this on your end or a problem with firefox2?
----------------------------------------------------

On 18 Dec 2006, at 02:20, Wallace Winfrey wrote:

> And speaking of activity, it looks like the forum had it's most ever

> users online at once last Friday, Dec 08. There were 972 users online,

And presumably that doesn't include the many people, like me, who 

Lawrence Casserley - lawrence@lcasserley.co.uk

Lawrence Electronic Operations - www.lcasserley.co.uk

Colourscape Music Festivals - www.colourscape.org.uk

> And speaking of activity, it looks like the forum had it's most ever
> users online at once last Friday, Dec 08. There were 972 users online,
> logged in and reading the forum. Wow.

And presumably that doesn't include the many people, like me, who  
read and post by email.

Lawrence Casserley - lawrence@lcasserley.co.uk
Lawrence Electronic Operations - www.lcasserley.co.uk
Colourscape Music Festivals - www.colourscape.org.uk

Quote: usdryad@hotmail.com wrote on Sun, 17 December 2006 01:16

> This is so frustrating, how the hell am i supposed to create anything when getting a simple sound out of it is so damn difficult. 

I am afraid we are only just getting beyond the stone age of computer software in general. To use a computer you need to be a software programmer just as to use a car 100 years ago you needed to be a mechanic.

Keep that in mind and don't be fooled by rounded corners, a brushed steel look or the white loungy interior of a mac shop. It will spare you a lot of frustration.

Quote: usdryad@hotmail.com wrote on Sun, 17 December 2006 01:16
----------------------------------------------------
> This is so frustrating, how the hell am i supposed to create anything when getting a simple sound out of it is so damn difficult. 
----------------------------------------------------

Quote: Mattijs wrote on Mon, 18 December 2006 07:45

> Quote: usdryad@hotmail.com wrote on Sun, 17 December 2006 03:15

> ----------------------------------------------------

> > btw everytime i post i get this error msg even though it does post it

> > Please try to refresh this page in your browser to try again. If you continue to see this error, please contact us at support@cycling74.com. "

> > is this on your end or a problem with firefox2?

> I have the same problem when I'm on a pc with FireFox. When you refresh the page as the message suggests, the post is submitted again. I have seen several double posts on this forum that I imagine are due to the same issue.

Personally I haven't ever seen this problem when posting, but here's a suggestion: if you do see this error when posting, and every single time you do, you refresh the page and it results in a double post, then we can conclude that the error was not in the posting of the message, but in the re-display of the thread after posting the message. In this case, it would make sense to NOT refresh the page in this circumstance. If you want to re-display the thread, then click the back button until you get to the thread view, and then refresh the thread view.

Quote: Mattijs wrote on Mon, 18 December 2006 07:45
----------------------------------------------------
> Quote: usdryad@hotmail.com wrote on Sun, 17 December 2006 03:15
> ----------------------------------------------------
> > btw everytime i post i get this error msg even though it does post it
> >
> > "An Error Occurred
> >
> > Please try to refresh this page in your browser to try again. If you continue to see this error, please contact us at support@cycling74.com. "
> >
> > is this on your end or a problem with firefox2?
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> I have the same problem when I'm on a pc with FireFox. When you refresh the page as the message suggests, the post is submitted again. I have seen several double posts on this forum that I imagine are due to the same issue.
>
> Mattijs
----------------------------------------------------

Personally I haven't ever seen this problem when posting, but here's a suggestion: if you do see this error when posting, and every single time you do, you refresh the page and it results in a double post, then we can conclude that the error was not in the posting of the message, but in the re-display of the thread after posting the message. In this case, it would make sense to NOT refresh the page in this circumstance. If you want to re-display the thread, then click the back button until you get to the thread view, and then refresh the thread view.


I've also had this problem from time to time, using IE 7 (for my sins). I think, although i'm not entirely sure, it only happens once i pass the 15 minute editing time limit.

I often spend more than 15 minutes thinking, searching and checking stuff on my studio computer, (which is in another part of the house)...which is why i seem to out stay the 15 minutes provided for posting and this seems to explain my experiences of that error message. I could be wrong but it doesn't seem to happen on posts where i'm not messing around, and within the time limit.

Update: This post only took a few minutes to type and uploaded without glitches, so maybe there's some milage in the 15 minute theory, (for IE 7 anyway).

Quote: wallace winfrey wrote on Mon, 18 December 2006 20:32

> Personally I haven't ever seen this problem when posting, but here's a suggestion: if you do see this error when posting, and every single time you do, you refresh the page and it results in a double post, then we can conclude that the error was not in the posting of the message, but in the re-display of the thread after posting the message. In this case, it would make sense to NOT refresh the page in this circumstance. If you want to re-display the thread, then click the back button until you get to the thread view, and then refresh the thread view.

Still I assume we agree that the forum has a nasty bug, right?

Quote: wallace winfrey wrote on Mon, 18 December 2006 20:32
----------------------------------------------------

> Personally I haven't ever seen this problem when posting, but here's a suggestion: if you do see this error when posting, and every single time you do, you refresh the page and it results in a double post, then we can conclude that the error was not in the posting of the message, but in the re-display of the thread after posting the message. In this case, it would make sense to NOT refresh the page in this circumstance. If you want to re-display the thread, then click the back button until you get to the thread view, and then refresh the thread view.
----------------------------------------------------

Still I assume we agree that the forum has a nasty bug, right?


fwiw, it also just happened to me in Safari. Indeed I was taking a long time for a message, it looks like John is right about the time limit.

> fwiw, it also just happened to me in Safari. Indeed I was taking a long time for a message, it looks like John is right about the time limit.

I'll try turning off the "edit-after-post" feature to see if that fixes

it. It's not really a good idea to keep it turned on anyway, as the

discussion takes place on both web forums and mailing lists, and the

whole "edit-after-post" feature is more for forums that encourage

updating the original post. Since that's impossible for the mailing list

users (who still compromise half the discussion) to do, and also has, in

the past, confused mailing list users who aren't privy to the updated

post, I don't see the need to keep this feature turned on, especially if

You might be wondering why I don't just fix the bug, either by diving

into the code myself or updating the forum software to a version that

does fix it. The problem with the former is that at this point, I simply

don't have any spare time to devote to finding and fixing that

particular bug. The problem with running an update is that we've

extensively modified the FudForum software such that employment of the

FudForum's normal update process breaks functionality elsewhere on the

I'll try turning off the "edit-after-post" feature to see if that fixes
it. It's not really a good idea to keep it turned on anyway, as the
discussion takes place on both web forums and mailing lists, and the
whole "edit-after-post" feature is more for forums that encourage
updating the original post. Since that's impossible for the mailing list
users (who still compromise half the discussion) to do, and also has, in
the past, confused mailing list users who aren't privy to the updated
post, I don't see the need to keep this feature turned on, especially if
it's causing errors during posting.

You might be wondering why I don't just fix the bug, either by diving
into the code myself or updating the forum software to a version that
does fix it. The problem with the former is that at this point, I simply
don't have any spare time to devote to finding and fixing that
particular bug. The problem with running an update is that we've
extensively modified the FudForum software such that employment of the
FudForum's normal update process breaks functionality elsewhere on the
site.

Quote: wallace winfrey wrote on Wed, 20 December 2006 20:36

> > fwiw, it also just happened to me in Safari. Indeed I was taking a long time for a message, it looks like John is right about the time limit.

> I'll try turning off the "edit-after-post" feature to see if that fixes

> it. It's not really a good idea to keep it turned on anyway, as the

> discussion takes place on both web forums and mailing lists, and the

> whole "edit-after-post" feature is more for forums that encourage

> updating the original post. Since that's impossible for the mailing list

> users (who still compromise half the discussion) to do, and also has, in

> the past, confused mailing list users who aren't privy to the updated

> post, I don't see the need to keep this feature turned on, especially if

I wouldn't miss the feature.. Is it possible for you to reproduce the bug or would you like me to check once you made the modification?

> You might be wondering why I don't just fix the bug, either by diving

> into the code myself or updating the forum software to a version that

> does fix it. The problem with the former is that at this point, I simply

> don't have any spare time to devote to finding and fixing that

> particular bug. The problem with running an update is that we've

> extensively modified the FudForum software such that employment of the

> FudForum's normal update process breaks functionality elsewhere on the

That's perfectly understandable, thanks for the info.

Quote: wallace winfrey wrote on Wed, 20 December 2006 20:36
----------------------------------------------------
> Mattijs Kneppers wrote:
>
> > fwiw, it also just happened to me in Safari. Indeed I was taking a long time for a message, it looks like John is right about the time limit.
>
> I'll try turning off the "edit-after-post" feature to see if that fixes
> it. It's not really a good idea to keep it turned on anyway, as the
> discussion takes place on both web forums and mailing lists, and the
> whole "edit-after-post" feature is more for forums that encourage
> updating the original post. Since that's impossible for the mailing list
> users (who still compromise half the discussion) to do, and also has, in
> the past, confused mailing list users who aren't privy to the updated
> post, I don't see the need to keep this feature turned on, especially if
> it's causing errors during posting.

>
> You might be wondering why I don't just fix the bug, either by diving
> into the code myself or updating the forum software to a version that
> does fix it. The problem with the former is that at this point, I simply
> don't have any spare time to devote to finding and fixing that
> particular bug. The problem with running an update is that we've
> extensively modified the FudForum software such that employment of the
> FudForum's normal update process breaks functionality elsewhere on the
> site.

So where do i go for help seeing that the forums are dead?