Forums > MaxMSP

strange behaviour with vst~ (and DSP)

October 29, 2012 | 8:48 am

HI all,
anybody experienced a "nan" (not a number) coming from the vst object?
My vst~ has Kontakt plugged in…: how come can it send a not a number signal? never happened before…


October 29, 2012 | 9:44 am

What is it sending a nan out of? A signal outlet? A number outlet?

Where are you seeing the message? In a float/int box? The Max window?

I’ve run into nans in a float box when using Alex Harkers descriptors objects and ended up using a [split 0. 20000.] or something like that to pass only actual numbers.


October 29, 2012 | 10:24 am

ah, well, the nan is from a vst~ so it is a signal nan.
i see it probing the msp chord. and when i print it on max window as well…


October 29, 2012 | 10:25 am

btw, VERY important: as soon as i quit and restart the dsp it goes back to normality


October 29, 2012 | 10:50 am

I mean, where are you seeing the (nan) message?


October 29, 2012 | 11:37 am

coming out from the [vst~] object’s patchcord…


October 29, 2012 | 3:34 pm

A signal outlet doesn’t display thing. What you plug it into does. What do you have vst~ plugged into?

Or can you post your patch?


October 29, 2012 | 4:06 pm

first of all thanks for your interest… below is the scheme of the patch.
nan as said is coming out from the vst~ object (plugged to Kontakt), i see it through number~ and it is printed as well on the max window.

– Pasted Max Patch, click to expand. –

October 29, 2012 | 6:04 pm

That makes sense now.

So why do you need a number~ from your vst~ output? And are you only seeing it when you use the right outlet of number~? (have you tried snapshot~ instead?)

So the nan you’re getting (I didn’t see any in my system, but I didn’t load a vst) is happening in the max world (and no the msp world).

Whenever I need a non-signal float from the signal world, I use snapshot~, but that may just be habit.

No idea why it would only happen the once though.


October 29, 2012 | 6:06 pm

well, yes, you know already that it is coming from the plug-in, so you know there is nothing you can do.
as long as your IO device driver doesnt chrash from them, nans aren´t dangerous. :)

i am not sure if thre is a msp external which can filter nans out, but there are vst plug-ins which can do it.



ak
October 29, 2012 | 6:07 pm

bitsafe~?


October 30, 2012 | 10:33 am

thank you for all your replies…
@ Rodrigo: the number is for displaying reasons only. in this way I can see the "nan" and use some ways to trigger action accordingly.
"So the nan you’re getting (I didn’t see any in my system, but I didn’t load a vst) is happening in the max world (and no the msp world)"
well, to me it looks like it is happening in the MSP (vst) world, the max objet i use as said is for displaying reasons only. I could have used snapshot as well, as you suggest…

@Roman:
"well, yes, you know already that it is coming from the plug-in, so you know there is nothing you can do.
as long as your IO device driver doesnt chrash from them, nans aren´t dangerous. :)"
you are right, but the DSP stops working at all! so i unless i manually send a 0 and a 1 DSP just stops working… no sounds…

@Andrzej thanks, i tried with that, but the problem is I want to eradicate the problem at the origin. Once i get nans they will never stop unless as said i close and reopen the dsp. By using bitsafe~ I only transform nans to 0s, to i lose the only thing i have to detect them and in case do some trick accordingly… ;-)

BTW, nan is such a new thing to me, and looks like i have to figure out why the hell they are coming from my VST.
Here are some thoughs…

A) I did not upgrade or modify anything in Kontakt. So it should not be a bug or something I guess. It has been working flawlessy for years
B) I have changed something in my max/msp world, so I guess this is responsible for that, in a way or another. This points to point…
…D) is it possible that some MIDI informations sent from Max to the VST are directly responsible for a nan output from the vst as well?
This i guess is the point I may need to look at… unless…
..E) by changing some instrument variable inside Kontakt itself (like gain, filters etc…) that sampler is completely responsible for the nan output. Even though i doubt that because I even tried to send super-distorted signals for hours from it, without getting any crash or nan in the VST…

So… a long story short, does anybody of you guys have any idea? ;-)
Thanks A LOT!


June 20, 2014 | 8:51 am

I have run into this issue with Omnisphere and also just found out about bitsafe~

My question is, how expensive an operation is bitsafe~?

I’m tempted to use it not only after VST~ objects, but also following adc~ objects and (for absolute safety) just before dac~ objects. I had a very unpleasant experience (extremely LOUD bang in a very powerful PA system) due to NANs a few weeks ago.


June 22, 2014 | 11:53 pm

bitsafe~. word.


June 23, 2014 | 2:44 pm

Actually they are very dangerous to your hearing —- when Omnisphere produced (what I later discovered was) NAN values, the very powerful PA system to which my rig was connected produced an incredibly loud transient bang. Trust me, you don’t want that happening more than once, ever!

——
nans aren´t dangerous. :)

Raja — thanks for the info — I have bitsafe~ objects all over the place now in my Max 5 system and I have seen no detrimental effects. This is totally defensive as I have never actually run into a problem with NAN on my Max 5 system but you never know.


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