Bruno Zamborlin

Some vst effects, such as "supatrigga" or other tempo-delays, require, to work properly, the tempo in BPM of the VST-Host.

How may I send this BPM-Tempo if I use these kind of VST inside Max?

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Dear all,
a little question about the vst~ object:
Some vst effects, such as "supatrigga" or other tempo-delays, require, to work properly, the tempo in BPM of the VST-Host.
Otherwise, they don't work at all.

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- http://www.brunozamborlin.com -
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tempo-in-a-vst-2

> How may I send this BPM-Tempo if I use these kind of VST inside Max?

You cannot synchronise vst~ plugins in max ;( we have to wait for cycling to implement this often required feature !

try searching for this thread : VST~ prayer

Quote: spleef wrote on Tue, 07 November 2006 09:41

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> You cannot synchronise vst~ plugins in max ;( we have to wait for cycling to implement this often required feature !

> try searching for this thread : VST~ prayer

Ok, so I can't use VST like dblue_Glitch, SupaTrigga or BT Tempo Delay 3D inside Max...

I can't understand why it would be so difficult to implement this feature, but a reason will exist for sure...

@Per Boysen: thanks, but you maybe didn't understand my question. I have to synchronize a VST plug-in plugged in a vst~ object, I don't have to convert BPM into milliseconds.

Quote: spleef wrote on Tue, 07 November 2006 09:41
----------------------------------------------------
> You cannot synchronise vst~ plugins in max ;( we have to wait for cycling to implement this often required feature !
>
> try searching for this thread : VST~ prayer
----------------------------------------------------

Oh, thanks.
So, it's not possible at all... 
Ok, so I can't use VST like dblue_Glitch, SupaTrigga or BT Tempo Delay 3D inside Max...

yeah yeah, we've heard this request before. It's a damn important feature if you ask me, but, still, max isn't the best VST host as it doesn't have automatic delay compensation. Anything modular + vst isn't really the most ideal of situatins as ASIO buffers in and out galore may occur according to my understanding of that [ASIO]. Can someone else elaborate on this?

yeah yeah, we've heard this request before. It's a damn important feature if you ask me, but, still, max isn't the best VST host as it doesn't have automatic delay compensation. Anything modular + vst isn't really the most ideal of situatins as ASIO buffers in and out galore may occur according to my understanding of that [ASIO].  Can someone else elaborate on this?


> yeah yeah, we've heard this request before. It's a damn important

> feature if you ask me, but, still, max isn't the best VST host as it

> doesn't have automatic delay compensation. Anything modular + vst

> isn't really the most ideal of situatins as ASIO buffers in and out

> galore may occur according to my understanding of that [ASIO]. Can

You can easily calculate the delay yourself: Get the i/o vector size 

duplicate it or not, add the signal vector size. I don't know if other 

hosts mystreriously would know the latency of a given vst if its longer 

than the signal vector size though. (All fft based effects would fall 

into that category). They could measure it, but it might change. Or they 

Then you have to think about what you want to compensate: a delay which 

is sent outside needs different treatment than a sequencer. Any realtime 

treatment needs to be compensated according to specific needs. You have 

to decide what to do with the knowledge of the latency... (And we still 

can't look into the future which is no problem for fixed music like DAW 

This can't be automatically done by Max, as Max doesn't know what you 

want/need. But it will give you everything you need to do it yourself...

DrSbaitso wrote:
> yeah yeah, we've heard this request before. It's a damn important
> feature if you ask me, but, still, max isn't the best VST host as it
> doesn't have automatic delay compensation. Anything modular + vst
> isn't really the most ideal of situatins as ASIO buffers in and out
> galore may occur according to my understanding of that [ASIO].  Can
> someone else elaborate on this?

You can easily calculate the delay yourself: Get the i/o vector size 
duplicate it or not, add the signal vector size. I don't know if other 
hosts mystreriously would know the latency of a given vst if its longer 
than the signal vector size though. (All fft based effects would fall 
into that category). They could measure it, but it might change. Or they 
just ignore it...

Then you have to think about what you want to compensate: a delay which 
is sent outside needs different treatment than a sequencer. Any realtime 
treatment needs to be compensated according to specific needs. You have 
to decide what to do with the knowledge of the latency... (And we still 
can't look into the future which is no problem for fixed music like DAW 
based works...)

This can't be automatically done by Max, as Max doesn't know what you 
want/need. But it will give you everything you need to do it yourself...

-- 
Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
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--(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
-- _|_)----|-----()--------------
----------()--------www.ccmix.com


Quote: Stefan Tiedje wrote on Thu, 16 November 2006 08:07

> You can easily calculate the delay yourself

Yes you can. But the question is: how can you send this to vst?

Please, if you have windows try this vst: 

http://illformed.org/glitch/?page=downloads

, and you will see that it doesn't work at all. 

That's because it "thinks" that sequencer is in "stop".

It uses the BPM value of the song, and there is no a solution to send it this value with max.

So, the problem is not to calculate the tempo of the song, or its latency compensation, but to send this value to a sync vst, that cannot works without it.

Quote: Stefan Tiedje wrote on Thu, 16 November 2006 08:07
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> You can easily calculate the delay yourself
----------------------------------------------------

Please, if you have windows try this vst: http://illformed.org/glitch/?page=downloads 
, and you will see that it doesn't work at all. 
That's because it "thinks" that sequencer is in "stop".
It uses the BPM value of the song, and there is no a solution to send it this value with max.

Year,- it's pretty straight forward to compensate for delay in max, if only it could be synched, i'd be happy...

Quote: Bruno Zamborlin wrote on Tue, 07 November 2006 11:07

> @Per Boysen: thanks, but you maybe didn't understand my question. I have to synchronize a VST plug-in plugged in a vst~ object, I don't have to convert BPM into milliseconds.

Correct. Sorry about being unclear in my post by leaving it for understood that I was talking about creating Max/MSP patches similar to what those VST plug-ins do (Glitch, Cutup etc) - as opposed to the strategy you meant, i.e. using Max/MSP as a VST host.

I'm not yet fully satisfied with my understanding of Max/MSP, regarding VST, but it seems there is a problem with reading tempo sync data in the VST format. That's why I was recommended to use the workaround of translating tempo related processing into milliseconds, wich is how Max/MSP does its calculating.

Speaking about plug-in host applications it seams as Bidule is a good choice, if you're intrersted in tempo and sync related processing. Personally I also like Bidule because I can use the same patches on Mac and Windows and also incorporate all my AU plug-ins on the Mac. (Anyone know if Mac/MSP will ever support AU on the Mac?)

Quote: Bruno Zamborlin wrote on Tue, 07 November 2006 11:07
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> @Per Boysen: thanks, but you maybe didn't understand my question. I have to synchronize a VST plug-in plugged in a vst~ object, I don't have to convert BPM into milliseconds.
>
> Bruno 

Correct. Sorry about being unclear in my post by leaving it for understood that I was talking about creating Max/MSP patches similar to what those VST plug-ins do (Glitch, Cutup etc) - as opposed to the strategy you meant, i.e. using Max/MSP as a VST host. 

I'm not yet fully satisfied with my understanding of Max/MSP, regarding VST, but it seems there is a problem with reading tempo sync data in the VST format. That's why I was recommended to use the workaround of translating tempo related processing into milliseconds, wich is how Max/MSP does its calculating. 

Speaking about plug-in host applications it seams as Bidule is a good choice, if you're intrersted in tempo and sync related processing. Personally I also like Bidule because I can use the same patches on Mac and Windows and also incorporate all my AU plug-ins on the Mac. (Anyone know if Mac/MSP will ever support AU on the Mac?)


Quote: Bruno Zamborlin wrote on Thu, 16 November 2006 05:07

> > You can easily calculate the delay yourself

> ----------------------------------------------------

> Yes you can. But the question is: how can you send this to vst?

just delay everything else by that amount of time ;)

> > You can easily calculate the delay yourself
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> Yes you can. But the question is: how can you send this to vst?
>

just delay everything else by that amount of time ;)


Tempo in a vst~