the look of max5

+1

You have not updated to Max5 because of the look?

Man, you are missing out on a lot. I don't think
I could go back to Max4 now.

Ok, But... i have *never* understood this fascination with *details* of display! Gosh, in my first DECADE *plus* of making electronic music, I never created a single interface with anything but text.
That the *details* of appearance of your interfaces keep you from a superior work flow and dev environment... ?!?
I guess I am mostly an old audio person, and have not gotten behind use of Max for images, :-). Still, such attitudes seem to be ...uh...petty and besides any main point. To me, it seems your produced art should not be dependent on exact shading algorithms or corner rounding or lack thereof...
how do these effect the affect of your art, except in the most trivial ways?

Please explain.
Dr. B.

Hi,

I wanted to chime in. I actually like the way Max 5 looks. I think Max 4 looks nice too, but it's really not that big of an issue to me one way or the other. I do like all the improvements in Max 5 and I couldn't go back to 4 at this point.

Also, I like to add pict files and colors to the background of my patches, I even did this in Max 4, to inspire me during performances, and also so that my patches look different and that I can know at a glance what patch I'm looking at. I doesn't really distract me to do this or waste my time. I see it as more of something to add in when I need a break from making music.

take care, Nick

the main issue with the max5 look is that it simply takes up more screen space.

and if i open my max4 patches in max5, the text is hardly readable.

Ah, so... the main issue is that the super cramped UIs I have seen in Max4 apps do not translate easily (or at all) in to Max5 screens without more screen resolution.
Hmmm. so it's a economic issue about needing more pixels on your computer screen....
well, this may be a push to redesign your UIs to not pack 10 pounds into a 5 pound bucket? EG: Use screens that overlay each other and switch with single key press/ switch?
We are lazy animals by nature: is there *really* an ABSOLUTE necessity to have your packed UI page all on the same screen at the same time? Really? Or is it just something no one wanted to face, having packed all that C*...er. *stuff* onto the screen in the first place?

I know, "it is critical to have the UI exactly as I have designed it"!!
uh-huh. And if you had even less pixels available, you would have made something else that works, I promise.
So, I will never hire someone who complains about this issue to be a UI designer for the large insurance company I work for: crowded ui's are an anathema to quality web applications.
Go ahead, and pack those pages: you run the risk that only *you* will want to suffer through the UI to use your app. That's probably ok for many of you, right?
It's all ok...
Just my tuppence, REALLY nothing personal, YMMV, pax
charlie

I also can't bear to go back to 4, there are a lot of other things besides the UI which are not anywhere near the ease and power of 5. I also don't like the old look... of course that's somewhat subjective, but the fact remains that there are a lot more options in 5, and you can make 5 look like 4 (except square corners). So it's more of a "superset" UI that allows for both (and many more) designs. Having transparency alone makes the switch worth it for me, although it does slow things down... until computers catch up... what, about a year?

@pelang: some of your requests are already possible in 5, others aren't:

Patchords:
-Roundness
-Cord Size
-Pattern
-Shadow
-Transparency
-Gradient color

---These have been improving, particularly with the new handles at the ends, but I imagine the other extras aren't worth programming in, and would take up yet more GUI updating power---things really slow down with a lot of cords on the screen and you try to move a bunch of objects. Also with cord thickness, the ability to precisely select could get messed up... and you'd probably be selecting them more often than the objects behind.

Objects:
-Roundness
-Border Size
-in/outs color
-Transparency

---Looks like the roundness and border size is built-in and can't be changed, probably a function of the new way they're displayed (zoomable unlike Max 4). The in/outs color can be changed and can be different if the patch is locked or not. Transparency is supported.

Messages:
-Roundness
-Transparency

---Again, no control over roundness, but transparency yes. For square-cornered messages you can use [textbutton], also new in 5 and a great alternative to buttons in general: no square area around the button that is also clickable. Also a nice alternative to LED.

The new Inspector is magnitudes better than the old ones. Again, that's more than enough for me to want to switch, especially as the attributes are so well-explained just by being there...

My two cents. I love 5 and I also think that design (in *some* applications) can be important, for the end user or for myself, for ease of use or for inspiration. But it's also nice to just hack something together that works, regardless of appearance, then put what you want to see into Presentation Mode and be done with it!

"EG: Use screens that overlay each other and switch with single key press/ switch?
We are lazy animals by nature: is there *really* an ABSOLUTE necessity to have your packed UI page all on the same screen at the same time? Really? Or is it just something no one wanted to face, having packed all that C*...er. *stuff* onto the screen in the first place?"

eh, charles, lazyness doesnt really meet it. :)

you might call it too lazy to learn how do do it in max5, but see, i can instead of that use
the saved time to learn new things about v4.

if something makes more work you just dont do it anymore, i.e. that only blocks creativity.

depending on the application and the user, sometimes the best GUI is a small GUI, but i worry
about space the most during programming, not how the GUI looks.

tell me ONE reason why it is an improvement tat max v5 has rounded corners and because of that
object boxes are bigger than in v4. there is no reason other than to come across 110´s plans for
world domination throuh max4 patches.

switching from 4 to 5 is another, minor, problem.

i am still waiting for an explanation and/or solution for background pictures keeping the right
position when opened in max v5.
in max v4, a picture object at position 0 0 creates a code with arguments -1 -1, in max v5 they
fixed that and the logical position and the code are in sync now. with the result, that v4-made
patches with pictures at 0 0 are at 1 1 in v5 - which fucks up the GUI of about 600 bpatchers i made.

or can you tell me why v5 has such monsterous umenus? i would understand if umenu would look
like in windows 7 or OSX, but to change the look of thousand of my umenus from OS look to a
custom MAX look is a declaration of war against 110 land.
small umenus were more or less compatible between classic mac and OSX, but the new one is
... totally different.

that you get also a lot of new functions which makes programming faster when switching
to v5 might be true, but the monitor space problem still exists and you have to reorganize
yourself to be compatible with your tool.

i prefer it the other way round.

-110 *whining mood*

In the time between Max 4 and 5, common computer screen sizes and resolutions have increased so much that I highly doubt that you can put less objects on screen today than before.

And I tend to agree with Charles Baker: if your screen is full with UI objects and there's no room to add more, it's time to rethink the interface.

That said, I would welcome a way to be able to modify the appearance of some objects, such as the very blob-like dial with its thick and imprecise needle. Specifying which .svg file to use in the object itself would allow me to create my own vector graphic in illustrator, which would be awesome.