zipb

I always loved the MaxMsp community and its 'old-fashioned' mailing 

list. It had a very loose, cosy community feeling, while providing 

Suddenly everything changes, I'm no longer a member, I need to 

resubscribe, can't get a digest any longer.

And bouncer Wally pops up, and tells me in a rather unpleasant tone 

It all feels like my beloved local pub was turned into one of these 

Heck, I'm seriously considering unsubscribing, this time for real.

I always loved the MaxMsp community and its 'old-fashioned' mailing  
list. It had a very loose, cosy community feeling, while providing  
plenty of great info.
Suddenly everything changes, I'm no longer a member, I need to  
resubscribe, can't get a digest any longer.
And bouncer Wally pops up, and tells me in a rather unpleasant tone  
what to to do and not to do.
It all feels like my beloved local pub was turned into one of these  
nasty hip wine bars overnight.
Heck, I'm seriously considering unsubscribing, this time for real.

the-new-list

I'm not sharing this opinion. I'm very happy with the new lists. This is 

a great improvement. Mailman is a nice tool for mailing list. And this 

also means that Yahoo groups are definitly out, which is a great 

Maybe there is some small problem, as being obliged to subscribe again, 

but if it is the only reason to resign from the list, then this means 

that we don't need to read this list at all no ?

Hi,
I'm not sharing this opinion. I'm very happy with the new lists. This is 
a great improvement. Mailman is a nice tool for mailing list. And this 
also means that Yahoo groups are definitly out, which is a great 
improvement for me.

Maybe there is some small problem, as being obliged to subscribe again, 
but if it is the only reason to resign from the list, then this means 
that we don't need to read this list at all no ?

As far as I remember this used to be a pretty fancy bar already but 

was trashed by a bunch of hooligans on the day Jitter was released. 

It took a while to redevelop the place but now it's back to what it 

As far as I remember this used to be a pretty fancy bar already but  
was trashed by a bunch of hooligans on the day Jitter was released.  
It took a while to redevelop the place but now it's back to what it  
once was.

________________________
  http://loibner.cc


I had my reservations when I heard they were putting

in new Windows, but it's not turned out to be quite as

bad as I'd expected. New decor in your favourite

watering hole always takes a bit of getting used to

I had my reservations when I heard they were putting
in new Windows, but it's not turned out to be quite as
bad as I'd expected. New decor in your favourite
watering hole always takes a bit of getting used to
though ...
cheers
Roger


I think it will benefit archive searching too.

Getting my mailbox flooded when being out for a couple of days was charming, but a bit of pain too.

i would like custom avatars though, really helps identification and legibility.

and some code for urls and the like, maybe best without images, hate that.

perhaps they should add an OT section too, then stuff like this wouldn't end up in the general archives and peoples mailbox ; )

I think it will benefit archive searching too.
Getting my mailbox flooded when being out for a couple of days was charming, but a bit of  pain too.
i would like custom avatars though, really helps identification and legibility.
and some code for urls and the like, maybe best without images, hate that.
perhaps they should add an OT section too, then stuff like this wouldn't end up in the general archives and peoples mailbox ; )


Actually I'm not a bouncer, but the bartender who's been serving up your drinks for the last couple years who you never noticed. I have no interest in being a bouncer, but when the old-timers come in and start throwing their drinks around and making a lot of noise about how they hate the new decor even though the drink prices are the same, and yelling at the confused new patrons that things aint what they used to be, I'm the one in the unfortunate position of having to explain they they'll need to either lower their voices or leave the bar and come back when they're sober. And I hate having to do it because I know it's the old-timers that are part of what makes this bar a great place to work, mostly cause they leave great tips.

OI. you fecking pansy-ass msp stuck-in-the-muds. why so afraid of a 

flexible matrix dataset processor? it's OUR pub now, losers.

OI.  you fecking pansy-ass msp stuck-in-the-muds.  why so afraid of a  
flexible matrix dataset processor?  it's OUR pub now, losers.


IMHO this forum a great improvement for the MaxMSP community. Thank you to all the people that have been working to put it on.

IMHO this forum a great improvement for the MaxMSP community. Thank you to all the people that have been working to put it on.
d.


On Jan 20, 2006, at 5:33 AM, Zip Boterbloem wrote:

> I always loved the MaxMsp community and its 'old-fashioned' mailing 

> list. It had a very loose, cosy community feeling, while providing 

> Suddenly everything changes, I'm no longer a member, I need to 

> resubscribe, can't get a digest any longer.

> And bouncer Wally pops up, and tells me in a rather unpleasant tone 

> It all feels like my beloved local pub was turned into one of these 

> Heck, I'm seriously considering unsubscribing, this time for real.

The Max list has always had that nasty hip wine bar feel in some 

ways. I blame Zicarelli for never taking his sunglasses off while 

inside. It certainly isn't helping anyway...

And yes, it is true that the new bouncer (not Wally, but mailman) 

mistook you for someone else at first. Crushing, yes, but he's been 

Wally is not so tough. He likes to play tough. He's got the leather 

jacket and slicked back hair. He types in all caps. -- It'll admit 

it, I was scared at first too. However, deep down, he's a big softy. 

I saw him swerve to avoid a squirrel while following him on the road 

the other day. A lesser man would've plowed right over it, but he had 

not only the alertness to notice it, but the compassion to avoid it 

as well. (The fact that he was on a bicycle may also of had something 

to do with it. It has nice flame decals..) Besides, Pace is really 

the guy to look out for around here. He's really quiet and never 

bothers anyone, but sometimes he flips out and punches out some guy 

in the bathroom, and when he does it to you no one will believe your 

So inclusion: Eh. What can you do? The Max list is the Max list for 

better or for worse. For richer or for much, much poorer (less so if 

you're a student, but it still hurts). If it didn't have that hipster 

stench, it just wouldn't be the same. You know it. I know it. Drink up.

> I always loved the MaxMsp community and its 'old-fashioned' mailing  
> list. It had a very loose, cosy community feeling, while providing  
> plenty of great info.
> Suddenly everything changes, I'm no longer a member, I need to  
> resubscribe, can't get a digest any longer.
> And bouncer Wally pops up, and tells me in a rather unpleasant tone  
> what to to do and not to do.
> It all feels like my beloved local pub was turned into one of these  
> nasty hip wine bars overnight.
> Heck, I'm seriously considering unsubscribing, this time for real.

The Max list has always had that nasty hip wine bar feel in some  
ways. I blame Zicarelli for never taking his sunglasses off while  
inside. It certainly isn't helping anyway...

And yes, it is true that the new bouncer (not Wally, but mailman)  
mistook you for someone else at first. Crushing, yes, but he's been  
informed and all is well now.

Wally is not so tough. He likes to play tough. He's got the leather  
jacket and slicked back hair. He types in all caps. -- It'll admit  
it, I was scared at first too. However, deep down, he's a big softy.  
I saw him swerve to avoid a squirrel while following him on the road  
the other day. A lesser man would've plowed right over it, but he had  
not only the alertness to notice it, but the compassion to avoid it  
as well. (The fact that he was on a bicycle may also of had something  
to do with it. It has nice flame decals..) Besides, Pace is really  
the guy to look out for around here. He's really quiet and never  
bothers anyone, but sometimes he flips out and punches out some guy  
in the bathroom, and when he does it to you no one will believe your  
story that he started it.

So inclusion: Eh. What can you do? The Max list is the Max list for  
better or for worse. For richer or for much, much poorer (less so if  
you're a student, but it still hurts). If it didn't have that hipster  
stench, it just wouldn't be the same. You know it. I know it. Drink up.

On 20 Jan 2006, at 12:35, Bernhard Loibner wrote:

> As far as I remember this used to be a pretty fancy bar already but 

> was trashed by a bunch of hooligans on the day Jitter was released.

That was some time after antiorp used to regularly come in here with 

But then, I remember the list when it first started. After all, I 

nick rothwell -- composition, systems, performance -- 

> As far as I remember this used to be a pretty fancy bar already but  
> was trashed by a bunch of hooligans on the day Jitter was released.

That was some time after antiorp used to regularly come in here with  
the ASCII equivalent of a super soaker.

But then, I remember the list when it first started. After all, I  
started it.

   nick rothwell -- composition, systems, performance -- http:// 
www.cassiel.com


On Jan 20, 2006, at 11:07 AM, John Nowak wrote:

Sorry -- I just wanted to nominate myself for worst typo of the month.

Actually, I did not refer to Jitter users (like myself) as hooligans 

but to the fact that the old web-based forum was hacked (by chance) 

Actually, I did not refer to Jitter users (like myself) as hooligans  
but to the fact that the old web-based forum was hacked (by chance)  
shortly after Jitter was released...

cheers
B.
________________________
  http://loibner.cc


> we really have to suscribe to each sections and post (dev) to (dev), 

> (maxmsp) to (maxmsp), (pluggo) to (pluggo) and so on ? it'll be a pain 

> to split my thunderbird filters to get a handy folder management...

i agree that tbird's filtering could use a bit more flexibility, but i 

don't see how it limits this job. having it put all that stuff into one 

folder will keep things mostly as they were for you... the hitch being 

the need to remember where to send new posts (replies should go to the 

now if i could just convince the author of the "correct identity" 

extension to add rule-based identities i'd be all set. too many 

aliases... don't want to blow my cover. ;)

> we really have to suscribe to each sections and post (dev) to (dev), 
> (maxmsp) to (maxmsp), (pluggo) to (pluggo) and so on ? it'll be a pain 
> to split my thunderbird filters to get a handy folder management...

i agree that tbird's filtering could use a bit more flexibility, but i 
don't see how it limits this job.  having it put all that stuff into one 
folder will keep things mostly as they were for you... the hitch being 
the need to remember where to send new posts (replies should go to the 
right place automatically).

now if i could just convince the author of the "correct identity" 
extension to add rule-based identities i'd be all set.  too many 
aliases... don't want to blow my cover.  ;)


> Do we really have to suscribe to each sections and post (dev) to (dev), 

It took me around 3 minutes to subscribe to (almost all of) the other 

lists and change my Thunderbird settings. (It was no pain at all)

This is fine for me, as it helps others with less broad interests than I 

[][] [][][] [][] [][][] [][] [][][] [][] [][][]

[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]

14, Av. Pr. Franklin Roosevelt, 94320 Thiais, France

f.e wrote:
> Do we really have to suscribe to each sections and post (dev) to (dev), 
> (maxmsp) to (maxmsp), (pluggo) to (pluggo) and so on ? it'll be a pain 
> to split my thunderbird filters to get a handy folder management...

It took me around 3 minutes to subscribe to (almost all of) the other 
lists and change my Thunderbird settings. (It was no pain at all)
This is fine for me, as it helps others with less broad interests than I 
have to keep their inbox smaller.

  [][]  [][][]  [][]  [][][]  [][]  [][][]  [][]  [][][]
[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]

         Stefan Tiedje
         Klanggestalter
     Electronic Composition
               &
         Improvisation

            /~~~~~
     \   /|() ()|
     ))))) )|  |  |( \
     ///     _/)/ )))))
             ___/   ///

-------------------------x---
--_____-----------|----------
--(_|_ ----|-----|-----()---
-- _|_)----|-----()----------
----------()------------x----

14, Av. Pr. Franklin Roosevelt, 94320 Thiais, France
Phone at CCMIX   +33-1-49 77 51 72


> because I know it's the old-timers that are part of what makes this

> bar a great place to work, mostly cause they leave great tips.

As an oldtimer I'd just want to express my deep respect for the work you 

In the end, I believe, all oldtimers which are used to the digest will 

learn to digest the list in a much more convenient way than they used to 

do. I never understood what digests are for, but I guess there are 

tricks around (which I don't know) to make a digest digestable. I never 

wanted to learn this, and I am glad I don't have to learn them, as it 

always seemed much more difficult than learning to configure my mail 

wallace winfrey wrote:
> And I hate having to do it
> because I know it's the old-timers that are part of what makes this
> bar a great place to work, mostly cause they leave great tips.

As an oldtimer I'd just want to express my deep respect for the work you 
do.
In the end, I believe, all oldtimers which are used to the digest will 
learn to digest the list in a much more convenient way than they used to 
do. I never understood what digests are for, but I guess there are 
tricks around (which I don't know) to make a digest digestable. I never 
wanted to learn this, and I am glad I don't have to learn them, as it 
always seemed much more difficult than learning to configure my mail 
filters.

> > Do we really have to suscribe to each sections and post (dev) to (dev), 

> > (maxmsp) to (maxmsp), (pluggo) to (pluggo) and so on ? it'll be a pain 

> > to split my thunderbird filters to get a handy folder management...

> It took me around 3 minutes to subscribe to (almost all of) the other 

> lists and change my Thunderbird settings. (It was no pain at all)

> This is fine for me, as it helps others with less broad interests than I 

the new system is better than the old one ... but many of us still

which is the right maillinglist for jokes, general talking,

litter power pack promotion, zsolts innovation theorems, my

useful comments, or the 100 posts i got today about 

will we ban this off the new lists, or will we post these off 

i am really happy that "java" and "dev" is out of here now, 

and i think the same is true for poeple which only want to read "dev".

but i dont get why we would have an extra group for jitter (which 

usually involves max) or pluggo (which causes about 3 posts per month)

Telefonieren Sie schon oder sparen Sie noch?

> f.e wrote:
> > Do we really have to suscribe to each sections and post (dev) to (dev), 
> > (maxmsp) to (maxmsp), (pluggo) to (pluggo) and so on ? it'll be a pain 
> > to split my thunderbird filters to get a handy folder management...
>
> It took me around 3 minutes to subscribe to (almost all of) the other 
> lists and change my Thunderbird settings. (It was no pain at all)
> This is fine for me, as it helps others with less broad interests than I 
> have to keep their inbox smaller.
>
> Stefan

the new system is better than the old one ... but many of us still
complain ... i for example.

which is the right maillinglist for jokes, general talking,
litter power pack promotion, zsolts innovation theorems, my
useful comments, or the 100 posts i got today about 
"soundcard for G4" ?

will we ban this off the new lists, or will we post these off 
topic posts to "maxmsp" in the future ?

i am really happy that "java" and "dev" is out of here now, 
and i think the same is true for poeple which only want to read "dev".
but i dont get why we would have an extra group for jitter (which 
usually involves max) or pluggo (which causes about 3 posts per month)

-- 
Telefonieren Sie schon oder sparen Sie noch?
NEU: GMX Phone_Flat http://www.gmx.net/de/go/telefonie


I quite like using the forum, however, it now leaves it open to the elements so to speak. I think the mailing list had the advantage of being slightly less accessible and maybe even a little difficult to get apart of. Well, now the doors wide open, and holy sweet christ, here they come.

It is better this way though, although, well I don't know. I remember reading forums with links back in teh day. Who knows, I think it'll all be alright in the end.

I'm not really a list old timer, so I don't find it that hard adjusting. I find it easier to keep up on topics this way, though. Definetly. Yeah.

I quite like using the forum, however, it now leaves it open to the elements so to speak.  I think the mailing list had the advantage of being slightly less accessible and maybe even a little difficult to get apart of. Well, now the doors wide open, and holy sweet christ, here they come. 

I'm not really a list old timer, so I don't find it that hard adjusting. I find it easier to keep up on topics this way, though.  Definetly. Yeah.

> which is the right maillinglist for jokes, general talking,

> litter power pack promotion, zsolts innovation theorems, my

> useful comments, or the 100 posts i got today about 

basically its easy, post coffee house jokes to the java list, reporters 

jokes to javascript all off topic to the maxmsp list (as its the most 

I'd post zsolts innovation theorems to zsolt directly (with a reply-to 

to the list), maybe we can get him back that way... ;-)

I guess the list which everybody reads is the maxmsp list...

Roman Thilenius wrote:
> which is the right maillinglist for jokes, general talking,
> litter power pack promotion, zsolts innovation theorems, my
> useful comments, or the 100 posts i got today about 
> "soundcard for G4" ?

basically its easy, post coffee house jokes to the java list, reporters 
jokes to javascript all off topic to the maxmsp list (as its the most 
off topic list anyway ;-)

I'd post zsolts innovation theorems to zsolt directly (with a reply-to 
to the list), maybe we can get him back that way... ;-)

> The smart kids on the street preferred to deal with all of these issues 

> by using mail filters, which are far more configurable than a set of six 

> or seven forums to subscribe and unsubscribe to.

I might not be one of the smart kids... every time I thought about it, I 

couldn't figure out a reliable way to filter out Jitter stuff without 

losing Max/MSP suggestions that included a Jitter component (and these 

are perfectly reasonable, often quite good). Admittedly I have not 

tried any Bayesian or other ES techniques.

It's been common to see "try methods A, B, and if you have Jitter 

perhaps C". But it seemed to me that it was the Jitter mail that was 

really providing the extra bulk to the list... at least until the list 

change. Now the extra bulk is discussion of the list changes.

> The smart kids on the street preferred to deal with all of these issues 
> by using mail filters, which are far more configurable than a set of six 
> or seven forums to subscribe and unsubscribe to.

I might not be one of the smart kids... every time I thought about it, I 
  couldn't figure out a reliable way to filter out Jitter stuff without 
losing Max/MSP suggestions that included a Jitter component (and these 
are perfectly reasonable, often quite good).  Admittedly I have not 
tried any Bayesian or other ES techniques.

It's been common to see "try methods A, B, and if you have Jitter 
perhaps C".  But it seemed to me that it was the Jitter mail that was 
really providing the extra bulk to the list... at least until the list 
change.  Now the extra bulk is discussion of the list changes.


well, of course! all the smart kids use jitter. :)

On Jan 26, 2006, at 7:30 PM, dlurk wrote:

>> The smart kids on the street preferred to deal with all of these 

>> issues by using mail filters, which are far more configurable than 

>> a set of six or seven forums to subscribe and unsubscribe to.

> I might not be one of the smart kids... every time I thought about 

> it, I couldn't figure out a reliable way to filter out Jitter 

> stuff without losing Max/MSP suggestions that included a Jitter 

> component (and these are perfectly reasonable, often quite good). 

> Admittedly I have not tried any Bayesian or other ES techniques.

> It's been common to see "try methods A, B, and if you have Jitter 

> perhaps C". But it seemed to me that it was the Jitter mail that 

> was really providing the extra bulk to the list... at least until 

> the list change. Now the extra bulk is discussion of the list 

well, of course!  all the smart kids use jitter.  :)

>
>> The smart kids on the street preferred to deal with all of these  
>> issues by using mail filters, which are far more configurable than  
>> a set of six or seven forums to subscribe and unsubscribe to.
>
> I might not be one of the smart kids... every time I thought about  
> it, I  couldn't figure out a reliable way to filter out Jitter  
> stuff without losing Max/MSP suggestions that included a Jitter  
> component (and these are perfectly reasonable, often quite good).   
> Admittedly I have not tried any Bayesian or other ES techniques.
>
> It's been common to see "try methods A, B, and if you have Jitter  
> perhaps C".  But it seemed to me that it was the Jitter mail that  
> was really providing the extra bulk to the list... at least until  
> the list change.  Now the extra bulk is discussion of the list  
> changes.
>


Quote: James Aldridge wrote on Thu, 26 January 2006 06:16

----------------------------------------------------

> I quite like using the forum, however, it now leaves it open to the elements so to speak. I think the mailing list had the advantage of being slightly less accessible and maybe even a little difficult to get apart of. Well, now the doors wide open, and holy sweet christ, here they come.

Yes, here they come. I am sorry, but the previous format was very user un-friendly, especially for those of us that are a bit timid. The new forum makes me feel more comfortable asking questions as well as responding. Not to mention the ease of navigation.