vade

This one has had me scratching my head. Why on earth is a messagebox 

at one font size (say 9pt), 1 pixel larger than a numberbox at the 

same point size? Ubu, message etc are all 13px (as reported in the 

status window), whereas number is 12? This makes lining things up a 

pain in the ass, as not all fonts look the same scaled up 1 pixel to 

Also, is there a reason/limitation to the minimum font size being 9 

This one has had me scratching my head. Why on earth is a messagebox  
at one font size (say 9pt), 1 pixel larger than a numberbox at the  
same point size? Ubu, message etc are all 13px (as reported in the  
status window), whereas number is 12? This makes lining things up a  
pain in the ass, as not all fonts look the same scaled up 1 pixel to  
10px.

Also, is there a reason/limitation to the minimum font size being 9  
points? 8 would be lovely...

ui-question-and-annoyance

200% agreed, makes me feel better that i am not the only one scratching his head on this one ...

> Why on earth is a messagebox at one font size (say 9pt), 1 pixel 

> larger than a numberbox at the same point size? Ubu, message etc 

> are all 13px (as reported in the status window), whereas number is 12?

Every object wants to be Frank Sinatra: "I did it my way." Yes, this 

can be a pain, but it happens all over the place, not just here.

This is not a defense or justification of the behavior, more an 

observation that this sort of problem is not unique in Max.

> Also, is there a reason/limitation to the minimum font size being 9 

This is probably legacy. In the days when Max ran on one OS only 

*and* that OS had a uniform screen resolution across all supported 

screen displays, 9 point was the smallest font size that you could 

reasonably use. If you weren't there, trust me. Or scan the list 

archives for people compaining that 9 point was far too small.

For many objects the determined can get smaller font sizes by editing 

Peter Castine +--> Litter Power & Litter Bundle for Jitter

iCE: Sequencing, Recording & |home | chez nous|

Interface Building for |bei uns | i nostri|

On 8-Jun-2006, at 1:53, vade wrote:
> Why on earth is a messagebox at one font size (say 9pt), 1 pixel  
> larger than a numberbox at the same point size? Ubu, message etc  
> are all 13px (as reported in the status window), whereas number is 12?

Every object wants to be Frank Sinatra: "I did it my way." Yes, this  
can be a pain, but it happens all over the place, not just here.

This is not a defense or justification of the behavior, more an  
observation that this sort of problem is not unique in Max.

> Also, is there a reason/limitation to the minimum font size being 9  
> points?

This is probably legacy. In the days when Max ran on one OS only  
*and* that OS had a uniform screen resolution across all supported  
screen displays, 9 point was the smallest font size that you could  
reasonably use. If you weren't there, trust me. Or scan the list  
archives for people compaining that 9 point was far too small.

For many objects the determined can get smaller font sizes by editing  
the patcher-saved-as-text.

--------------    http://www.bek.no/~pcastine/Litter/    -------------
Peter Castine             +--> Litter Power & Litter Bundle for Jitter

What might be more useful would the the ability in a future version of 

Max to align vertically left, center or right, and similarly to align 

horizontally upper. lower or middle. Exactly how to decide what 

alignment one want to use, I have no strong opinion about.

What might be more useful would the the ability in a future version of 
Max to align vertically left, center or right, and similarly to align 
horizontally upper. lower or middle. Exactly how to decide what 
alignment one want to use, I have no strong opinion about.

Agree completely with this - I've had to revert to Javascript *just* 

so I could left/right/center justify some text...

202 Hack / PC-1600 User / VSTi Host / OMS Convert / Jack OS X

Agree completely with this - I've had to revert to Javascript *just* 
so I could left/right/center justify some text...

-- 
Dan Nigrin
Defective Records
202 Hack / PC-1600 User / VSTi Host / OMS Convert / Jack OS X
http://www.defectiverecords.com
http://www.jackosx.com


> larger than a numberbox at the same point size?

With the standard settings (geneva 9) they are the same size for me. 

This seems very font-dependent, heres a cheat I use, but don't tell my 

> Why on earth is a messagebox at one font size (say 9pt), 1 pixel 
> larger than a numberbox at the same point size?

With the standard settings (geneva 9) they are the same size for me. 
This seems very font-dependent, heres a cheat I use, but don't tell my 
typographic friends ...

BTW, if you put an ubumenu on your patch, they do not match. I 

realize I worded my initial posting in a confusing manner. But 

suffice it to say, pixel sizes for UI elements with the same font at 

the same pointsize do not result in the same pixel values. That just 

Its not a huge issue, but I spent about 5 hours yesterday going 

through nice legible small pixel fonts for my patch, and I finally 

settled on Pixelyn, which looks great at both 9 and 10 pt sizes. I 

would have chose Silkscreen, but when you make the numberbox 10 

points, to make it match pixel size to an ubumenu, the numbers look 

Anyway, Just a small annoyance - but I figured id voice it.

BTW, if you put an ubumenu on your patch, they do not match. I  
realize I worded my initial posting in a confusing manner. But  
suffice it to say, pixel sizes for UI elements with the same font at  
the same pointsize do not result in the same pixel values. That just  
strikes me as odd. Thats all.

Its not a huge issue, but I spent about 5 hours yesterday going  
through nice legible small pixel fonts for my patch, and I finally  
settled on Pixelyn, which looks great at both 9 and 10 pt sizes. I  
would have chose Silkscreen, but when you make the numberbox 10  
points, to make it match pixel size to an ubumenu, the numbers look  
all fucked.

a small UI annoyance... ubumenu (which is such a lovely alternative to the old OS 9-ish umenu) won't work in a plugin. Lame, and very odd, imho.

Not odd at all, since the VST spec doesn't permit additional windows 

to be opened, which ubumenu does. Anyhoo, nothing to be done about it.

Not odd at all, since the VST spec doesn't permit additional windows  
to be opened, which ubumenu does. Anyhoo, nothing to be done about it.

huh? Are you saying that ubumenu is, technically, a window?

yeah, thats how ubumenu was non-interrupting on OS 9, so jitter 

yeah, thats how ubumenu was non-interrupting on OS 9, so jitter  
wouldn't stop processing (AFAIK)...

yeah they're all a bit different, huh? =/ you could always change the height via scripting. Its hard to find pairs of fonts that balance each other out, but there are some pairs that work if you don a bit of experimenting. Still, not a good solution =(

yeah they're all a bit different, huh? =/ you could always change the height via scripting.  Its hard to find pairs of fonts that balance each other out, but there are some pairs that work if you don a bit of experimenting.  Still, not a good solution =(


UI question and annoyance....