Adam Kendall

I'm going to report this problem the way everyone hates -- General vague statement with no supporting patch, details, etc. But I don't know how else to do it.

I'm on XP, on a Dell 6400 laptop. Core2Duo 2.16. 2Gb RAM. Radeon x1400. QuickTime 6.5.1

Over the weekend, upgraded to 4.6.2/1.6.2

All my Jitter apps had a major drop in FPS, approx. 40-50% drop.

I thought it meant only a single processor was being used, but in Windows Task Manager, I could see both being utilized.

My patches are all QT-based (no OpenGL). No slabs. Performance Settings didn't make a difference.

Reverted to 4.5.x/1.5.x, everything's back to normal, i.e., got my FPS back.

Any ideas? I can't post patches, because my "apps" are too dense with subpatches.

Any checklists for me to over with 4.6.x/1.6.x? Do I need the a different version of QT? What's the message to explicitly tell the computer to use both CPUs? (Task Manager said both were working, but maybe I should be explicit to be safe?). Are there any known problems I didn't find in my searches?

I'm going to report this problem the way everyone hates -- General vague statement with no supporting patch, details, etc.  But I don't know how else to do it.

I'm on XP, on a Dell 6400 laptop.  Core2Duo 2.16.  2Gb RAM.  Radeon x1400.  QuickTime 6.5.1

My patches are all QT-based (no OpenGL).  No slabs.  Performance Settings didn't make a difference.

Any ideas?  I can't post patches, because my "apps" are too dense with subpatches.  

Any checklists for me to over with 4.6.x/1.6.x?  Do I need the a different version of QT?  What's the message to explicitly tell the computer to use both CPUs?  (Task Manager said both were working, but maybe I should be explicit to be safe?).  Are there any known problems I didn't find in my searches?

upgrade-to-4-61-6-major-drop-in-fps

One change which might be affecting you: hiquality is on by default 

in jit.qt.movie, whereas it wasn't before. Depending on your media, 

Am 03.04.2007 um 14:15 schrieb Adam Kendall:

> Any ideas? I can't post patches, because my "apps" are too dense 

> Any checklists for me to over with 4.6.x/1.6.x? Do I need the a 

> different version of QT? What's the message to explicitly tell the 

> computer to use both CPUs? (Task Manager said both were working, 

> but maybe I should be explicit to be safe?). Are there any known 

One change which might be affecting you: hiquality is on by default  
in jit.qt.movie, whereas it wasn't before. Depending on your media,  
this could affect your output rate.

> Any ideas?  I can't post patches, because my "apps" are too dense  
> with subpatches.
>
> Any checklists for me to over with 4.6.x/1.6.x?  Do I need the a  
> different version of QT?  What's the message to explicitly tell the  
> computer to use both CPUs?  (Task Manager said both were working,  
> but maybe I should be explicit to be safe?).  Are there any known  
> problems I didn't find in my searches?


Thanks, Jeremy, I'll try that when I have time to reinstall 4.6/1.6

Quote: Adam Kendall wrote on Tue, 03 April 2007 14:15

----------------------------------------------------

> What's the message to explicitly tell the computer to use both CPUs? (Task Manager said both were working, but maybe I should be explicit to be safe?).

Jitter and Max together use only one cpu, except for certain 2D processing objects. Have a look at this:

https://cycling74.com/forums/index.php?t=msg&goto=78171&rid=3579&S=266c595fbb6d78dcb5fdfea86037a9a2#msg_78171

Quote: Adam Kendall wrote on Tue, 03 April 2007 14:15
----------------------------------------------------
> What's the message to explicitly tell the computer to use both CPUs?  (Task Manager said both were working, but maybe I should be explicit to be safe?).  

Jitter and Max together use only one cpu, except for certain 2D processing objects. Have a look at this:
https://cycling74.com/forums/index.php?t=msg&goto=78171&rid=3579&S=266c595fbb6d78dcb5fdfea86037a9a2#msg_78171

I can only respond with my personal experience (which is all 2D video, no OpenGL) -- Both my processors are used, and the load is distributed pretty evenly among the two.

When I switched from a single-core P4 3.x ghz chip to a Core2Duo 2.x ghz chip, my FPS were noticeably higher on the same patches.

There is a "message to max" to explicitly tell Max to use n processors. I played around with it when I got my Core2Duo.

Cycling told me at the time that Max may not automatically recognize the two processors, though in my experience it did.

I want to emphasize that my Jitter work is all 2D, I don't know how Jitter handles multiple processors with 3D.

I can only respond with my personal experience (which is all 2D video, no OpenGL) -- Both my processors are used, and the load is distributed pretty evenly among the two.  

There is a "message to max" to explicitly tell Max to use n processors.  I played around with it when I got my Core2Duo.  

Quote: Adam Kendall wrote on Sat, 07 April 2007 23:49

> I want to emphasize that my Jitter work is all 2D, I don't know how Jitter handles multiple processors with 3D.

Yeah, certain '2D' (matrix processing) objects make good use of multiple processors, although I don't know where to find the list of which objects do and which don't. Still, the actual message passing system of max itsself is done in one thread, thus running on a maximum 100% of one cpu.

Note that this doesn't mean that you'll see one cpu using 100% and others 0% in your cpu monitor. The workload will be done alternately on different cpu's, but only one at a time. A cpu monitor usually displays an average and will make it seem that with two processors, your framerate will start to drop when the cpu load reaches exactly 50% at both processors.

Quote: Adam Kendall wrote on Sat, 07 April 2007 23:49
----------------------------------------------------
> I want to emphasize that my Jitter work is all 2D, I don't know how Jitter handles multiple processors with 3D.
>

Yeah, certain '2D' (matrix processing) objects make good use of multiple processors, although I don't know where to find the list of which objects do and which don't. Still, the actual message passing system of max itsself is done in one thread, thus running on a maximum 100% of one cpu. 

> There is a "message to max" to explicitly tell Max to use n processors. I played around with it when I got my Core2Duo. 

Hi Adam, could you elaborate on this a bit? It's news to me...

Adam Kendall skrev:
> There is a "message to max" to explicitly tell Max to use n processors.  I played around with it when I got my Core2Duo.  
Hi Adam, could you elaborate on this a bit? It's news to me...

Quote: Mattijs wrote on Sat, 07 April 2007 16:10

> Note that this doesn't mean that you'll see one cpu using 100% 

>and others 0% in your cpu monitor. The workload will be done 

>alternately on different cpu's, but only one at a time. A cpu 

>monitor usually displays an average and will make it seem that 

>with two processors, your framerate will start to drop when the 

>cpu load reaches exactly 50% at both processors.

> Note that this doesn't mean that you'll see one cpu using 100% 
>and others 0% in your cpu monitor. The workload will be done 
>alternately on different cpu's, but only one at a time. A cpu 
>monitor usually displays an average and will make it seem that 
>with two processors, your framerate will start to drop when the 
>cpu load reaches exactly 50% at both processors.

Quote: Wetterberg wrote on Sat, 07 April 2007 16:14

> Hi Adam, could you elaborate on this a bit? It's news to me...

I don't know what else to say about it -- Cycling pointed me to a message that explicitly tells Max how many CPUs to use. I can't find the message anywhere, even though I played around with it in September. In my experience on XP, Max defaults to using both CPUs without prodding.

Quote: Wetterberg wrote on Sat, 07 April 2007 16:14
----------------------------------------------------

> Hi Adam, could you elaborate on this a bit? It's news to me...
>

I don't know what else to say about it -- Cycling pointed me to a message that explicitly tells Max how many CPUs to use.  I can't find the message anywhere, even though I played around with it in September.  In my experience on XP, Max defaults to using both CPUs without prodding.

The Max Topics pdf page 106-115 documents the 'messages to max' 

available - but surely there are a number of 'undocumented' messages 

(the use of processors for example) -- also, there are some messages 

that can be sent to the jitter kernel, but i've found no 

documentation of these (?) It would be great if someone at c74 

could create a list of pertinent undocumented kernel messages that 

> I don't know what else to say about it -- Cycling pointed me to a 

> message that explicitly tells Max how many CPUs to use. I can't 

> find the message anywhere, even though I played around with it in 

> September. In my experience on XP, Max defaults to using both CPUs 

The Max Topics pdf page 106-115 documents the 'messages to max'  
available - but surely there are a number of 'undocumented' messages  
(the use of processors for example) -- also, there are some messages  
that can be sent to the jitter kernel, but i've found no  
documentation of these (?)   It would be great if someone at c74  
could create a list of pertinent undocumented kernel messages that  
might help intrepid users.

> I don't know what else to say about it -- Cycling pointed me to a  
> message that explicitly tells Max how many CPUs to use.  I can't  
> find the message anywhere, even though I played around with it in  
> September.  In my experience on XP, Max defaults to using both CPUs  
> without prodding.
>
> Adam


https://cycling74.com/documentation/group-mess-jitter

Turns parallel processor support on/off. Default is on if machine has 

multiple processors (or cores), and otherwise off.

Specifies the number of threads used for parallel processor support. 

Default is the number of processors (or cores).

Specifies matrix cellcount above which parallel processors are used. 

On Apr 8, 2007, at 12:57 PM, dekam wrote:

> The Max Topics pdf page 106-115 documents the 'messages to max' 

> available - but surely there are a number of 'undocumented' 

> messages (the use of processors for example) -- also, there are 

> some messages that can be sent to the jitter kernel, but i've found 

> no documentation of these (?) It would be great if someone at c74 

> could create a list of pertinent undocumented kernel messages that 

>> I don't know what else to say about it -- Cycling pointed me to a 

>> message that explicitly tells Max how many CPUs to use. I can't 

>> find the message anywhere, even though I played around with it in 

>> September. In my experience on XP, Max defaults to using both 

parallel [0/1 (int)]
Turns parallel processor support on/off. Default is on if machine has  
multiple processors (or cores), and otherwise off.

parallelthreads [threadcount (int)]
Specifies the number of threads used for parallel processor support.  
Default is the number of processors (or cores).

parallelthresh [threshold (int)]
Specifies matrix cellcount above which parallel processors are used.  
Default is 10000 cells.

> The Max Topics pdf page 106-115 documents the 'messages to max'  
> available - but surely there are a number of 'undocumented'  
> messages (the use of processors for example) -- also, there are  
> some messages that can be sent to the jitter kernel, but i've found  
> no documentation of these (?)   It would be great if someone at c74  
> could create a list of pertinent undocumented kernel messages that  
> might help intrepid users.
>
> thanks
>
> deKam
>
>
>
>
>> I don't know what else to say about it -- Cycling pointed me to a  
>> message that explicitly tells Max how many CPUs to use.  I can't  
>> find the message anywhere, even though I played around with it in  
>> September.  In my experience on XP, Max defaults to using both  
>> CPUs without prodding.
>>
>> Adam
>

ahso thanks vade - html who would have thunk it ; )

ok - so what happens if we increase the threadcount or thresh?

> Turns parallel processor support on/off. Default is on if machine 

> has multiple processors (or cores), and otherwise off.

> Specifies the number of threads used for parallel processor 

> support. Default is the number of processors (or cores).

> Specifies matrix cellcount above which parallel processors are 

ok - so what happens if we increase the threadcount or thresh?
say 8 threads on a dual core?
or 1000 cells instead of 10k?

> guys! html docs!
>
> https://cycling74.com/documentation/group-mess-jitter
>
> :)
>
> parallel [0/1 (int)]
> Turns parallel processor support on/off. Default is on if machine  
> has multiple processors (or cores), and otherwise off.
>
> parallelthreads [threadcount (int)]
> Specifies the number of threads used for parallel processor  
> support. Default is the number of processors (or cores).
>
> parallelthresh [threshold (int)]
> Specifies matrix cellcount above which parallel processors are  
> used. Default is 10000 cells.
>
>
>


Upgrade to 4.6/1.6 -- Major Drop in FPS