Forums > MaxMSP

Urgent request for the programmers of MAX/MSP

October 1, 2006 | 8:10 am

Tonight in the middle of a very important show at Miami Art Central Museums exhibition for "Centre Pompidou" collection my metro simply stopped and would not restart. As closing the patch at this moment would not be acceptable I was forced to drone and tried to jog it back into working by turning off the overdrive. This caused max to crash. I covered up and held together very well by restarting max while playing synths, but this tempo/metronome problem has to be fixed. I cant understand after 5 versions that this has not been addressed. Why is it that max metro and tempo will just stop after a long time, and drift out of sync or humanistically bang out of beat now and then. Im using a G5 dual 2ghz with OSX 10.3.9 and I have this problem every once and a while, and until now it was ok to have it in the studio but not in a prestigious gig. I use max/msp as a good portion of my live setup, and I would love to continue my passionate use of this awesome software, can you please fix this one very important problem with the fundimental metro+tempo objects.

Thank you so much.


October 1, 2006 | 10:03 am

You could try to see if the tl.metro abstraction, driven by audio signal
whenever audio is on, would work more reliable. I have received a few
suggestions that has not made it into it so far due to my own time
issues, but it’s a fairly simple abstraction, so you can tweek whatever
way you want to. It’s part of tl.objects:

http://www.bek.no/~lossius/download

Best,
Trond

Nicholas C. Raftis III wrote:
> Tonight in the middle of a very important show at Miami Art Central Museums exhibition for "Centre Pompidou" collection my metro simply stopped and would not restart. As closing the patch at this moment would not be acceptable I was forced to drone and tried to jog it back into working by turning off the overdrive. This caused max to crash. I covered up and held together very well by restarting max while playing synths, but this tempo/metronome problem has to be fixed. I cant understand after 5 versions that this has not been addressed. Why is it that max metro and tempo will just stop after a long time, and drift out of sync or humanistically bang out of beat now and then. Im using a G5 dual 2ghz with OSX 10.3.9 and I have this problem every once and a while, and until now it was ok to have it in the studio but not in a prestigious gig. I use max/msp as a good portion of my live setup, and I would love to continue my passionate use of this awesome software, can you p!
> lease fix this one very important problem with the fundimental metro+tempo objects.
>
> Thank you so much.
>


October 1, 2006 | 10:18 am

you could also save the following abstraction (which I call
kt_metro~, but it’s up to you) and use it as an audio metro

as metro if you provide an argument, it will be tthe metro speed,
default is 1000

i use it since only a short time, but it seems to work ok

best

kasper

#P window setfont "Sans Serif" 9.;
#P window linecount 1;
#P newex 94 74 50 196617 deferlow;
#P flonum 116 183 35 9 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P message 94 141 34 196617 1000;
#P newex 94 120 32 196617 sel 0;
#P newex 94 44 48 196617 loadbang;
#P number 151 71 35 9 1 0 1 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P newex 116 162 46 196617 / 1000.;
#P message 94 99 21 196617 $1;
#P inlet 151 50 15 0;
#P newex 61 263 65 196617 gate;
#P newex 116 223 39 196617 >~ 0.9;
#P newex 116 243 36 196617 edge~;
#P newex 116 203 55 196617 phasor~ 1;
#P inlet 61 50 15 0;
#P outlet 61 285 15 0;
#P connect 6 0 9 0;
#P connect 3 0 5 1;
#P connect 4 0 3 0;
#P connect 2 0 4 0;
#P connect 13 0 2 0;
#P connect 8 0 13 0;
#P fasten 12 0 8 0 99 159 121 159;
#P connect 11 1 8 0;
#P fasten 9 0 8 0 156 159 121 159;
#P connect 11 0 12 0;
#P connect 7 0 11 0;
#P connect 14 0 7 0;
#P connect 10 0 14 0;
#P connect 5 0 0 0;
#P connect 1 0 5 0;
#P window clipboard copycount 15;

>You could try to see if the tl.metro abstraction, driven by audio
>signal whenever audio is on, would work more reliable. I have
>received a few suggestions that has not made it into it so far due
>to my own time issues, but it’s a fairly simple abstraction, so you
>can tweek whatever way you want to. It’s part of tl.objects:
>
>http://www.bek.no/~lossius/download
>
>Best,
>Trond
>
>
>Nicholas C. Raftis III wrote:
>>Tonight in the middle of a very important show at Miami Art Central
>>Museums exhibition for "Centre Pompidou" collection my metro simply
>>stopped and would not restart. As closing the patch at this moment
>>would not be acceptable I was forced to drone and tried to jog it
>>back into working by turning off the overdrive. This caused max to
>>crash. I covered up and held together very well by restarting max
>>while playing synths, but this tempo/metronome problem has to be
>>fixed. I cant understand after 5 versions that this has not been
>>addressed. Why is it that max metro and tempo will just stop after
>>a long time, and drift out of sync or humanistically bang out of
>>beat now and then. Im using a G5 dual 2ghz with OSX 10.3.9 and I
>>have this problem every once and a while, and until now it was ok
>>to have it in the studio but not in a prestigious gig. I use
>>max/msp as a good portion of my live setup, and I would love to
>>continue my passionate use of this awesome software, can you!
> p!
>> lease fix this one very important problem with the fundimental
>>metro+tempo objects.
>>
>>Thank you so much.
>>
>
>


October 1, 2006 | 12:39 pm

hi,

maybe its because im doing something different, or perhaps that i have xp. anywayz, the following patch works solid for me. its a clock from my sequencer. inputs/outputs are labeled, hopefully you will understand. let me know otherwise, i ll explain. you need to hava some kind of data array with note lengths, which will respond to bangs by outputting notelength in ticks (notelength=25000*note type (ie 1/1 for a note that is 1 bar long). changing the tempo will change the note durations on the fly for you. changing the direction, ie pressing reverse, will cause the clock to run backwards, while keeping in mind, how far did it get after triggering the last step (x.ticks), and taking this time (x) before triggering this step again. if yourdata array will respondf correctly to reverse mode, you will get an effect of as if you were reversing a tape. i have it all, i can send you, but not sure if will understand it…

the timing protect patch makes sure that if current note is calculated to be 25000.2323 ticks long, the next note will 0.2323ticks longer then calculated. remember tempo changes are calculated in realtime:))

——————————————————————-

max v2;
#N vpatcher 387 353 987 753;
#P window setfont "Sans Serif" 9.;
#P message 407 97 40 9109513 reverse;
#P number 363 95 35 9 0 0 0 139 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#N vpatcher 15 55 615 455;
#P window setfont "Sans Serif" 9.;
#P newex 79 116 49 9109513 change -1;
#P newex 356 161 57 9109513 prepend set;
#P window linecount 1;
#P newex 357 125 32 9109513 r bpm;
#B color 6;
#N comlet bpm;
#P inlet 156 31 15 0;
#P newex 167 314 48 9109513 send bpm;
#B color 6;
#P window linecount 0;
#P newex 78 144 45 9109513 route 1 0;
#P newex 78 87 27 9109513 < 0.;
#N comlet tempo n.box;
#P outlet 310 229 15 0;
#P newex 307 70 19 9109513 t b;
#N comlet reverse;
#P inlet 307 49 15 0;
#P newex 310 200 27 9109513 * -1.;
#P newex 310 176 27 9109513 f;
#P comment 282 357 54 9109513 send~ bpm;
#P comment 198 355 68 9109513 send~ bpmrvs;
#P comment 111 354 59 9109513 send bpmdir;
#P newex 10 314 78 9109513 send bpmdirbang;
#B color 6;
#P newex 95 194 19 9109513 t 1;
#P newex 66 207 22 9109513 t -1;
#P newex 101 314 58 9109513 send bpmdir;
#B color 6;
#P comment 11 352 79 9109513 send bpmdirbang;
#P connect 14 1 4 0;
#P connect 14 0 4 0;
#P connect 14 0 2 0;
#P connect 16 0 13 0;
#P connect 19 0 14 0;
#P connect 13 0 19 0;
#P connect 14 1 3 0;
#P connect 2 0 1 0;
#P connect 3 0 1 0;
#P connect 16 0 15 0;
#P connect 10 0 11 0;
#P connect 11 0 8 0;
#P connect 8 0 9 0;
#P connect 9 0 12 0;
#P connect 18 0 12 0;
#P connect 17 0 8 1;
#P connect 16 0 8 1;
#P connect 17 0 18 0;
#P pop;
#P newobj 363 135 54 9109513 p tempo;
#N vpatcher 107 75 1183 758;
#P origin -187 -99;
#P window setfont "Sans Serif" 9.;
#P message 56 119 50 9109513 0;
#P newex 56 95 57 9109513 prepend set;
#P newex 838 433 47 9109513 send test;
#P flonum 785 480 82 9 0 0 0 139 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P newex 785 449 49 9109513 timecount;
#P newex 787 421 28 9109513 sel 1;
#P number 648 498 35 9 0 0 0 139 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P window linecount 1;
#P newex 633 468 38 9109513 zl nth 3;
#P flonum 766 570 35 9 0 0 0 139 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P newex 766 544 58 9109513 speedlim 25;
#P flonum 641 614 35 9 0 0 0 139 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P window linecount 0;
#P newex 641 585 58 9109513 speedlim 25;
#P newex 573 556 27 9109513 % 1.;
#N comlet position within current bar: 0.-1.(25bangs/ms!!!!);
#P outlet 573 584 15 0;
#P window linecount 1;
#P newex 573 531 163 9109513 Linterp;
#N comlet steps positions within current bar;
#P inlet 726 481 15 0;
#P newex 573 499 70 9109513 expr $f1+$f2-1;
#N comlet position within current step: 0.-1.(25bangs/ms!!!!);
#P outlet 509 625 15 0;
#P window linecount 0;
#P newex 561 277 27 9109513 + 1;
#P newex 420 277 27 9109513 + 1;
#P newex 509 475 79 9109513 scale 0. 1. 0. 1.;
#N comlet ask for next step;
#P outlet 388 537 15 0;
#P newex 340 487 27 9109513 llist;
#P newex 39 157 44 9109513 zl slice 4;
#P newex 203 63 19 9109513 t 1;
#P newex 180 63 19 9109513 t 0;
#P newex 127 62 43 9109513 t reset 0;
#P newex 127 40 126 9109513 route stop pause play;
#N comlet step id , bar id , step id within bar , bar length , note(ticks..int);
#P inlet 39 68 15 0;
#N comlet play , pause , stop;
#P inlet 128 22 15 0;
#P newex 561 92 66 9109513 t 2 -1 b 0 0;
#P newex 632 92 66 9109513 t 1 1 b 0 1;
#P newex 561 68 153 9109513 select -1 1;
#P newex 561 45 70 9109513 receive bpmdir;
#B color 6;
#N comlet step id , bar id , step id within bar , bar length;
#P outlet 327 538 15 0;
#P newex 195 180 19 9109513 t 0;
#P newex 127 179 59 9109513 t 900000000;
#P newex 127 157 78 9109513 leftgate;
#P newex 279 246 292 9109513 leftgate 3;
#P newex 403 332 27 9109513 i;
#P newex 420 302 109 9109513 expr 900000000-($i2-$i1);
#P newex 544 358 27 9109513 i;
#P newex 561 334 27 9109513 !-;
#P newex 340 430 40 9109513 select 1;
#P newex 561 307 109 9109513 expr ($i1-900000000) *-1;
#P newex 237 101 53 9109513 metro 0.04;
#P newex 237 220 94 9109513 lcount 0 0 900000000;
#P newex 340 455 51 9109513 t b b reset;
#P newex 340 407 46 9109513 >= 25000;
#P connect 20 0 25 0;
#P connect 20 0 47 0;
#P connect 47 0 48 0;
#P connect 19 0 21 0;
#P connect 21 0 22 0;
#P connect 22 0 11 0;
#P fasten 1 2 11 0 385 477 122 477 122 152 132 152;
#P lcolor 6;
#P connect 11 0 12 0;
#P connect 21 1 23 0;
#P connect 17 4 11 1;
#P connect 18 4 11 1;
#P connect 11 1 13 0;
#P connect 21 2 24 0;
#P fasten 22 1 3 0 165 97 242 97;
#P fasten 24 0 3 0 208 97 242 97;
#P fasten 23 0 3 0 185 97 242 97;
#P fasten 7 0 2 0 549 383 219 383 219 215 242 215;
#P lcolor 6;
#P fasten 9 0 2 0 408 383 219 383 219 215 242 215;
#P lcolor 6;
#P fasten 13 0 2 0 200 209 242 209;
#P fasten 12 0 2 0 132 209 242 209;
#P connect 3 0 2 0;
#P fasten 18 1 2 1 580 133 270 133;
#P lcolor 7;
#P fasten 17 1 2 1 651 133 270 133;
#P lcolor 7;
#P connect 2 1 10 0;
#P connect 26 0 14 0;
#P connect 4 0 0 0;
#P connect 29 0 0 0;
#P connect 0 0 5 0;
#P connect 5 0 1 0;
#P connect 1 0 26 0;
#P fasten 25 0 26 1 44 483 362 483;
#P fasten 25 1 0 1 78 270 381 270;
#P lcolor 5;
#P connect 1 1 27 0;
#P connect 18 2 9 0;
#P connect 10 1 29 0;
#P connect 29 0 8 0;
#P connect 8 0 9 1;
#P lcolor 15;
#P connect 4 0 28 0;
#P connect 29 0 28 0;
#P connect 28 0 31 0;
#P fasten 25 1 8 1 78 270 524 270;
#P lcolor 5;
#P fasten 25 1 28 2 78 270 540 270;
#P lcolor 5;
#P connect 17 2 7 0;
#P connect 15 0 16 0;
#P lcolor 7;
#P connect 16 0 18 0;
#P fasten 18 0 10 1 566 178 566 178;
#P lcolor 2;
#P fasten 18 3 10 1 608 124 566 124;
#P lcolor 2;
#P fasten 17 0 10 1 637 124 566 124;
#P lcolor 2;
#P fasten 17 3 10 1 679 124 566 124;
#P lcolor 2;
#P connect 10 2 30 0;
#P connect 30 0 4 0;
#P connect 4 0 6 0;
#P connect 6 0 7 1;
#P lcolor 6;
#P connect 28 0 32 0;
#P connect 32 0 34 0;
#P connect 34 0 36 0;
#P connect 36 0 35 0;
#P fasten 25 1 6 1 78 270 583 270;
#P lcolor 5;
#P connect 16 1 17 0;
#P connect 26 0 41 0;
#P connect 41 0 32 1;
#P connect 34 0 37 0;
#P connect 37 0 38 0;
#P connect 41 0 42 0;
#P connect 33 0 34 1;
#P connect 32 0 39 0;
#P connect 39 0 40 0;
#P connect 43 0 44 0;
#P connect 44 0 45 0;
#P connect 41 0 43 0;
#P connect 44 0 46 0;
#P pop;
#P newobj 168 138 152 9109513 p clock;
#B color 5;
#N vpatcher 524 307 1145 728;
#P origin -39 0;
#P window setfont "Sans Serif" 9.;
#P newex 194 192 44 9109513 zl slice 4;
#P message 133 152 16 9109513 0.;
#B color 9;
#P newex 133 130 45 9109513 loadbang;
#B color 9;
#P newex 35 81 66 9109513 unpack i i i i f;
#P newex 35 326 41 9109513 prepend;
#P newex 194 217 57 9109513 prepend set;
#P newex 35 54 169 9109513 t l l;
#N comlet step id , bar id , step id within bar , bar length , note(ticks);
#P inlet 35 35 15 0;
#P newex 35 156 81 9109513 pak 0. 0.;
#P newex 35 182 108 9109513 expr ((60./$f2)*$f1)+$f3;
#P newex 106 83 59 9109513 receive bpm;
#B color 6;
#P newex 106 107 33 9109513 abs 0.;
#N comlet step id , bar id , step id within bar , bar length , note(ticks..int);
#P outlet 35 356 15 0;
#P newex 52 250 95 9109513 t f f;
#P newex 35 272 27 9109513 – 0.;
#P newex 52 228 27 9109513 % 1.;
#P newex 35 206 27 9109513 t f f;
#P newex 35 294 27 9109513 i;
#P connect 10 0 11 0;
#P connect 11 0 14 0;
#P connect 14 4 9 0;
#P connect 9 0 8 0;
#P connect 8 0 1 0;
#P connect 1 0 3 0;
#P connect 3 0 0 0;
#P connect 0 0 13 0;
#P fasten 12 0 13 0 199 319 40 319;
#P connect 13 0 5 0;
#P connect 1 1 2 0;
#P connect 2 0 4 0;
#P connect 4 0 3 1;
#P connect 7 0 6 0;
#P connect 6 0 9 1;
#P connect 15 0 16 0;
#P lcolor 10;
#P connect 16 0 8 2;
#P lcolor 10;
#P fasten 4 1 8 2 142 277 167 277 167 174 138 174;
#P lcolor 6;
#P connect 11 1 17 0;
#P connect 17 0 12 0;
#P pop;
#P newobj 168 111 70 9109513 p timingprotect;
#B color 5;
#P connect 0 0 1 0;
#P hidden connect 2 0 3 0;
#P hidden connect 3 0 2 0;
#P hidden connect 4 0 2 1;
#P pop;


October 1, 2006 | 4:17 pm

Thank you Trond and Kasper, those phasor metronome abstractions should work. I can’t believe I never thought of it. Ichyhead, your patch I don’t see how it will help my situation, though it seems useful. Im missing about half the externals or abstractions.

To re-explain in short Metro and Tempo just stop working after a while, they just stop outputting bangs. and even if I restart it sometimes it still wont work.

I don’t understand why such an essential object is fatally flawed in its inherent programming, I mean no other softwares I own just randomly stop in the middle of performance, and Max/msp is by far the coolest, is it like the amazing brains who coded this cared about making a million other objects and not fixing the most important one of all???


October 1, 2006 | 5:13 pm

On 01 Oct 2006, at 18:17, Nicholas C. Raftis III wrote:

> I don’t understand why such an essential object is fatally flawed
> in its inherent programming, I mean no other softwares I own just
> randomly stop in the middle of performance,
hey, you must be a lucky man…

> and Max/msp is by far the coolest, is it like the amazing brains
> who coded this cared about making a million other objects and not
> fixing the most important one of all???

well, noone knows what you are doing to your metro, or the rest of
the patch resp.
so this general rant won’t be of any help, just showing your
frustration.

e.g. a broken metro sounds like a dead scheduler.


October 1, 2006 | 5:31 pm

>> and Max/msp is by far the coolest, is it like the amazing brains
>> who coded this cared about making a million other objects and not
>> fixing the most important one of all???

>well, noone knows what you are doing to your metro, or the rest of
>the patch resp.
>so this general rant won’t be of any help, just showing your
>frustration.

The frustration is understandable (even if his
assumption about amazing brains is a bit flawed),
and – to his credit – he DID mention what kind of
machine he’s running on. He forgot to mention what
version of Max/MSP/Jitter he’s running, though.

But you’re right – without more information of a
specific nature, it’s unlikely that this will
receive the attention the original poster evidently
feels it deserves.

For a listing of things that WILL help achieve the
original poster’s goals, see

http://www.cycling74.com/forums/index.php?t=msg&goto=80289&rid=0&srch=bug+guidelines#msg_80289


October 1, 2006 | 5:36 pm

>
>>and Max/msp is by far the coolest, is it like the amazing brains
>>who coded this cared about making a million other objects and not
>>fixing the most important one of all???
>
>well, noone knows what you are doing to your metro, or the rest of
>the patch resp.
>so this general rant won’t be of any help, just showing your frustration.
>

that’s true, however everybody knows than metro and in general timing
IS a problem in max – there was a lot of discussions about it, a lot
of explainations (it is because of the OS etc etc) however it is true
than most (or all ?) other software i know CAN display time ok, and
keep a steady pulse….

and still i use max

go figure

all the best

kasper

Kasper T. Toeplitz
noise, composition, bass, computer

http://www.sleazeArt.com


October 1, 2006 | 6:04 pm

yeas , sorry i realize it now, i have the metro setup same as you do. however when i tested this patch it did run smooth for around 24hours without getting out of sync (the purpose of the tesdt) or stopping. i wouldnt introduce any signals into this, since conversion objects from signals to max messages (wndows) isnt solid. have you tried reseting the metronomes speed every hour or so? maybe that could help metro to stay awake.

missing timecount? not to worry..not part of the patch. missing lobjects? how can you work in max without them??

i


October 1, 2006 | 6:40 pm

I had these timing problems as well until I found out that Max is not the black box, ‘click ‘n drag ‘n everything will be fine’ toy I thought it was.

Max is no more and no less than a 5th (or 4th if you want) level programming language with a huge standard library, which means
a) you have to be aware of the way max works underneath the objects. Especially the way max uses different event-handling mechanisms to accomplish different tasks.
b) if you are not, a lot of inexplainable things happen that have the same effect as a bug (eg "why doesn’t this work, all I did was combining two working helpfiles?")
c) you have to be a technician (as in ‘geek’ or ‘nerd’) to use max effectively
d) Cycling ’74 will never be able to promote Max like this..

[Quote]
Building a Better Future
REAKTOR is also an extraordinary sonic laboratory, its modular design releasing you from the constraints of more conventional setups. The extensive library of macros and modules combined with REAKTOR’s clear, uncomplicated interface turns the construction of sonic tools into an intuitive process.
[/Quote]

..and luckily Cycling 74 doesn’t.

To be complete, I must add that NI has even less right to promote its product this way. Reaktor doesn’t even come close to a programming environment. To make a setup that goes beyond ‘the constraints of more conventional setups’ is ultimately impossible in Reaktor. If anyone cares I will be happy to substantiate these claims. I used Reaktor extensively. My advise: go with the standard instruments. They are neatly worked around the shady parts of the reaktor core, a process that is impossible to complete without daily contact with a Reaktor developer.

Mattijs


October 1, 2006 | 6:52 pm

> that’s true, however everybody knows than metro and in general
> timing IS a problem in max – there was a lot of discussions about it,
i think there is a difference between the (known) sluggish timing of
scheduler-based tasks and a "metro stopped working in the middle of a
performance" report.

> a lot of explainations (it is because of the OS etc etc)

??

> however it is true than most (or all ?) other software i know CAN
> display time ok, and keep a steady pulse….

there are ways in max (or to be precise, in msp) to accomplish sample
accurate timing. and these have been extensively discussed on the
list before.


October 1, 2006 | 7:12 pm

>> that’s true, however everybody knows than metro and in general timing
>> IS a problem in max – there was a lot of discussions about it,
> i think there is a difference between the (known) sluggish timing of
> scheduler-based tasks and a "metro stopped working in the middle of a
> performance" report.

I suppose several of us have seen the problem of metro dying from time
to time, some more often than others. I know Tim had some serious
problems on one computer while another computer worked fine awhile back.
To the best of my knowledge I don’t think anyone have been able to nail
it and present the kind of reproducible situation required in order to
track down and solve the problems once and for all. Personally I have
seldom been struggling with this problem, but it has happened a few
times over the past 3 years.

Best,
Trond


October 1, 2006 | 7:42 pm

[[ it slices. it dices. but it can't tell time. ]]

I’ve definitely finished complicated drum patches, hit play and
wondered why I wrote it. Because even normal metro events don’t
"feel" very stable. when I say "feel" I mean the minute timing that
makes a drummer good. I’ve gone in with protools and used beat
detective. I mean we are making MUSIC right?

Is there a way to sync the scheduler with metro or vice versa? that
might do the trick.

I know the following is not pragmatic, but I always felt like max
signals should just be adjustable rate. I think Gregory Taylor said
something about PD doing this? Audio would just be a list of floats
for each vector. And jitter would just be symbols that say
jit_matrix u142000077. in a perfect world we could just option
click out patch cables and set the resolution. that way we could use
all the Max objects we wish we had in MSP and Jitter. Even something
like compressed MP3-ish variable bit rate signals would help for
simple audio signals.

because why should I use a 44.1kHz 24bit signal for my program’s
metronome?

pipe dreams. this is what I wonder about.. I need a life.


October 1, 2006 | 7:42 pm

> Personally I have seldom been struggling with this problem, but it
> has happened a few times over the past 3 years.

aha, ok. (fortunately) never happend to me either.

volker.


October 1, 2006 | 9:26 pm

Hi Mattijs,

could you elaborate on this (I don’t follow your "combine two working
helpfiles" example):

> a) you have to be aware of the way max works underneath
> the objects. Especially the way max uses different event-
> handling mechanisms to accomplish different tasks.
> b) if you are not, a lot of inexplainable things happen
> that have the same effect as a bug (eg "why doesn’t this
> work, all I did was combining two working helpfiles?")

Thanks,
Brian


October 1, 2006 | 9:47 pm

sory if i am missing out on some major and well known max insides, but isnt the cpuclock object precise enough for testing timing, max patches for cpu efficiency, etc.? since it ouputs numbers generated by the processor, max’s scheduler should have no influence on the output of timecount. am i horibly wrong?

timecunt:
———–
max v2;
#N vpatcher 15 55 220 308;
#P window setfont "Sans Serif" 9.;
#P newex 63 28 19 9109513 t b;
#P outlet 53 199 15 0;
#P newex 55 139 27 9109513 -;
#P newex 80 108 27 9109513 f;
#P newex 50 77 40 9109513 t f f b;
#P newex 50 47 45 9109513 cpuclock;
#P inlet 53 13 15 0;
#P connect 6 0 1 0;
#P connect 1 0 2 0;
#P connect 4 0 5 0;
#P connect 2 0 4 0;
#P connect 0 0 6 0;
#P connect 3 0 4 1;
#P connect 2 2 3 0;
#P connect 2 1 3 1;
#P pop;

—-


October 2, 2006 | 5:10 pm

If anyone would care to try a sample-accurate metronome in UB format, you can find it at this URL:

http://eamusic.dartmouth.edu/~eric/MAX/SAMM/

I’ll also attach it here.

Eric


October 2, 2006 | 5:25 pm

>If anyone would care to try a sample-accurate metronome in UB format,

means it won’t work on mac PPC, max 457 ???

thanks

kasper

Kasper T. Toeplitz
noise, composition, bass, computer

http://www.sleazeArt.com


October 2, 2006 | 6:01 pm

> means it won’t work on mac PPC, max 457 ???

Dunno. It should be fine on both PPC or Intel, but I only tested it on Mintel hardware. If it doesn’t work on your machine, let me know and I could try going native :)


October 2, 2006 | 6:01 pm

XP max has a horrible bug where holding down the mouse button inside an object box which is in text entry mode will cause the cpu to spike to 100%, making timing even crummier :/

You know Chuck? I love it’s title, I almost feel like it’s an antithesis of an unspoken issue with Max and timing.

"Strongly-timed, Concurrent, and On-the-fly "

Strongly timed! I really think that should be the core of Max. It does so much stuff, yet it’s so easy to wrack hell onto the scheduler with just basic patching or user input. Oh well!! I’ll still use it =)


October 2, 2006 | 6:16 pm

> > means it won’t work on mac PPC, max 457 ???
>
>Dunno. It should be fine on both PPC or Intel, but I only tested it
>on Mintel hardware. If it doesn’t work on your machine, let me know
>and I could try going native :)

i belive it does not work

when I launch the help patcher, the el.samm~ object appears made
with dotted lines (as when an object is not found) – however no error
messages in max window (as it should be)

and of course el.samm~ is where all other 3rd party externals are, so
this is not the problem

turning audio, and trying does not produce anything (any effect)

I tried changing the name to el.samm~ (without .mxo) – does not change anything

I use aG4 pbook 1.5, osX 4 7, max 4 5 7

thanks

best

kasper

Kasper T. Toeplitz
noise, composition, bass, computer

http://www.sleazeArt.com


October 2, 2006 | 6:18 pm

Hi!
I have had a couple of strange crashes lately, the latest one five
minutes ago when hitting command + z buttons.
Have attached an crash repport.

MacOsX.4.7 ,Max/msp 4.6.1 ,jitter 1.6.1, MacBook Pro 2.0ghz 1gig ram.

/mattias


October 2, 2006 | 7:40 pm

>
> i belive it does not work
>
> when I launch the help patcher, the el.samm~ object appears made
> with dotted lines (as when an object is not found) – however no error
> messages in max window (as it should be)
>
> and of course el.samm~ is where all other 3rd party externals are, so
> this is not the problem
>

I don’t know enough about architecture compatibility then. I was under the impression that an external compiled for "Deployment" should work for both intel and PPC architectures. Maybe a more savvy developer can clue me in on what I might be doing wrong. I notice that I am getting the following compile warning messages, though not sure if they are dangerous:

/usr/bin/ld: warning multiple definitions of symbol _MachOFunctionPointerForCFMFunctionPointer
/usr/bin/ld: warning multiple definitions of symbol _CFMFunctionPointerForMachOFunctionPointer
/usr/bin/ld: warning multiple definitions of symbol _aTemplate

I’m going to attach a PPC binary from the caveperson days of CodeWarrior. This may not be as up to date as the UB I posted but hopefully still has core functionality.

Eric


October 2, 2006 | 7:51 pm

You should double-check that, in the target inspector, under
"Deployment" build style, it’s set for PPC and i386. Clicking on the
"Edit" button for that setting will allow you to check off both. I’ve
occassionally noticed some weirdness with settings not "sticking" in
XCode, so it’s worth a 2nd look.

jb

Am 02.10.2006 um 21:40 schrieb Eric Lyon:

> I was under the impression that an external compiled for
> "Deployment" should work for both intel and PPC architectures


October 2, 2006 | 8:09 pm

On Oct 1, 2006, at 9:17 AM, Nicholas C. Raftis III wrote:

>
> I don’t understand why such an essential object is fatally flawed
> in its inherent programming, I mean no other softwares I own just
> randomly stop in the middle of performance, and Max/msp is by far
> the coolest, is it like the amazing brains who coded this cared
> about making a million other objects and not fixing the most
> important one of all???

Please note that a long time problem with the scheduler and
multiprocessor machines was solved in 4.6.2. This might be related to
your and other user’s issues with scheduler death. Only recently were
we provided with clear user examples of this problem which were
sufficient to track down the problem.

However, please also note that you essentially provided us no
information in your report to investigate or assist with. Please see
the bug reporting guidelines oft posted to the list at bottom. You
might also take a look at Simon Tatham’s article, How To Report Bugs
Effectively, http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html.

-Joshua

BUG REPORTING GUIDELINES

Please report any problems you experience with clear and complete
information, including steps to reproduce, software and system
information, and where possible, an isolated example patch and crash
log. Something like the following would be ideal. This makes it
easier for us to find and fix the problems you experience. Without
such clear and complete information, it is less likely we will be
able to.

Summary:
Provide a descriptive summary of the issue.

Steps to Reproduce:
In numbered format, detail the exact steps taken to produce the bug.

Expected Results:
Describe what you expected to happen when you executed the steps above.

Actual Results:
Please explain what actually occurred when steps above are executed.

Regression:
Describe circumstances where the problem occurs or does not occur,
such as software versions and/or hardware configurations.

Notes:
Provide additional information, such as references to related
problems, workarounds and relevant attachments.


October 2, 2006 | 8:13 pm

> You should double-check that, in the target inspector, under
> "Deployment" build style, it’s set for PPC and i386. Clicking on the
> "Edit" button for that setting will allow you to check off both. I’ve
> occassionally noticed some weirdness with settings not "sticking" in
> XCode, so it’s worth a 2nd look.
>

Thanks, Jeremy.

I checked, and both ppc and i386 architectures are specified. I’m going to attach the most recent build on the off chance that the other one somehow was compiled intel-only. Kaspar, perhaps you could check this binary too? Thanks.

Eric


October 2, 2006 | 8:46 pm

vade$ lipo -info el.samm~
Architectures in the fat file: el.samm~ are: ppc i386

looks like both here, with that last archive you sent.

v a d e //

http://www.vade.info
abstrakt.vade.info

On Oct 2, 2006, at 4:13 PM, Eric Lyon wrote:

>> You should double-check that, in the target inspector, under
>> "Deployment" build style, it’s set for PPC and i386. Clicking on the
>> "Edit" button for that setting will allow you to check off both. I’ve
>> occassionally noticed some weirdness with settings not "sticking" in
>> XCode, so it’s worth a 2nd look.
>>
>
> Thanks, Jeremy.
>
> I checked, and both ppc and i386 architectures are specified. I’m
> going to attach the most recent build on the off chance that the
> other one somehow was compiled intel-only. Kaspar, perhaps you
> could check this binary too? Thanks.
>
> Eric
>
>



grg
October 2, 2006 | 9:02 pm

Am 02.10.2006 um 22:13 schrieb Eric Lyon:
> I checked, and both ppc and i386 architectures are specified. I’m
> going to attach the most recent build on the off chance that the other
> one somehow was compiled intel-only. Kaspar, perhaps you could check
> this binary too? Thanks.

Hello Eric,

I just tried on my ibook running 10.3.9 and it doesn’t work with 4.5.7
(no error, dotted lines), but it works fine with 4.6.2! And it looks
very useful.

cheers, g.


October 2, 2006 | 9:16 pm

I thought it had to be a CFM external to work in 4.5.7. Is this not
the problem?

wes

On 10/2/06, Georg Bosch wrote:
>
> Am 02.10.2006 um 22:13 schrieb Eric Lyon:
> > I checked, and both ppc and i386 architectures are specified. I’m
> > going to attach the most recent build on the off chance that the other
> > one somehow was compiled intel-only. Kaspar, perhaps you could check
> > this binary too? Thanks.
>
> Hello Eric,
>
> I just tried on my ibook running 10.3.9 and it doesn’t work with 4.5.7
> (no error, dotted lines), but it works fine with 4.6.2! And it looks
> very useful.
>
> cheers, g.
>
>


October 2, 2006 | 9:16 pm

>
> I just tried on my ibook running 10.3.9 and it doesn’t work with 4.5.7
> (no error, dotted lines), but it works fine with 4.6.2! And it looks
> very useful.
>

Thanks for the feedback, and also to vade for the nifty utility.

Eric


October 2, 2006 | 10:21 pm

>Kaspar, perhaps you could check this binary too?

when installing it in my externals, still nothing happens (when i
launch the help file) – the object is still "not found" (but wthout
such a message in the max window)

however if i re-type the name (not changing any of the attributes
->same text) , the object becomes "real" but with NO in-out/lets

best

kasper

Kasper T. Toeplitz
noise, composition, bass, computer

http://www.sleazeArt.com


October 3, 2006 | 5:41 am

Nicholas C. Raftis III wrote:
> I don’t understand why such an essential object is fatally flawed in
> its inherent programming, I mean no other softwares I own just
> randomly stop in the middle of performance, and Max/msp is by far the
> coolest, is it like the amazing brains who coded this cared about
> making a million other objects and not fixing the most important one
> of all??? — ~* http://www.Axiom-Crux.net *~

As far as I know such a problem was discussed some time ago and cycling
was very concerned about it. As you did not deliver too much information
about your setup, beside OS 10.3.9 and a dual G5, its hard to track it
down. To find something like that you need to be able to reproduce it…
If you send the whole patch to the support, they might even setup a
machine to let it run. But there won’t be any garanty that the problem
will show up there.

The replacement with an audio based metro seems the most robust solution
for this hard to show up bug. And with any bug you don’t know if its
inside the external, inside the Max application or just inside your
patch… You’l only be able to tell if you found the source for the
problem, till then you need to assume it could be any of the three…

I can’t tell you how often I wanted to blame externals or Max and
finally I created it myself… ;-)

Stefan


Stefan Tiedje————x——-
–_____———–|————–
–(_|_ —-|—–|—–()——-
– _|_)—-|—–()————–
———-()——–www.ccmix.com


October 3, 2006 | 1:29 pm

Apparently you need to upgrade to version 4.6.1 or later in order use my (and other 3rd party?) UB externals. I’m afraid I can’t pursue this further since the problem, whatever it is, appears to be solved in more recent versions of MaxMSP. Hopefully you can safely upgrade.

Best,

Eric


October 3, 2006 | 2:33 pm

if you want to have a PPC CFM version, I can compile it for you. Let me know.

wes

On 10/3/06, Eric Lyon wrote:
>
> Apparently you need to upgrade to version 4.6.1 or later in order use my (and other 3rd party?) UB externals. I’m afraid I can’t pursue this further since the problem, whatever it is, appears to be solved in more recent versions of MaxMSP. Hopefully you can safely upgrade.
>
> Best,
>
> Eric
>
>


October 3, 2006 | 2:50 pm

Quote: wesley.hoke@gmail.com wrote on Tue, 03 October 2006 15:33
—————————————————-
> if you want to have a PPC CFM version, I can compile it for you. Let me know.
>
>

Thanks for the offer. I did post one above. Anyway, this is just a prerelease. I hope to have a better solution to these kinds of problems when I officially release samm~ and all of its related objects, most likely some time after the ICMC in November.

Eric


October 3, 2006 | 8:06 pm

Quote: Brian E Willkie wrote on Sun, 01 October 2006 23:26
—————————————————-
> Hi Mattijs,
>
> could you elaborate on this (I don’t follow your "combine two working
> helpfiles" example):

Sure. Let’s say you want to make a video mixer that displays the last frame of the movie you select. Let’s say you want to output all video data in sync with the main metro (could be any reason, eg to combine the last frame and the current frame in an extrusion-like 3D effect) so you construct the patch below.

Look at the [t l 1] below the ubumenu. I could easily imagine a new user to believe: "First the gate opens, immediately after that the file gets loaded and the framecount retrieved, then the metro comes and bangs out the frame. That should work fine." Still when you put this patch in overdrive, it won’t display the correct frame.

#P window setfont "Sans Serif" 9.;
#P window linecount 1;
#P newex 117 47 56 9109513 loadmess 1;
#P message 134 165 42 9109513 do stuff;
#P newex 100 165 27 9109513 t b b;
#P newex 66 187 27 9109513 t l 1;
#P newex 83 231 27 9109513 t i 0;
#P newex 83 211 27 9109513 gate;
#P user jit.pwindow 117 400 82 62 0 1 0 0 1 0;
#P user jit.pwindow 33 400 82 62 0 1 0 0 1 0;
#P newex 34 355 27 9109513 + 1;
#P newex 34 377 42 9109513 gate 2 1;
#P newex 83 252 27 9109513 t b i;
#P newex 100 187 27 9109513 i;
#P newex 100 274 69 9109513 prepend frame;
#P newex 21 89 39 9109513 t l clear;
#P newex 147 371 80 9109513 route framecount;
#P newex 66 323 80 9109513 t getframecount l;
#P button 21 47 15 0;
#P newex 21 68 71 9109513 opendialog fold;
#P newex 21 110 68 9109513 prepend prefix;
#P user ubumenu 21 133 176 9109513 0 1 1 0;
#X add "Funkstorung – Grammy Ws.mov";
#X add "Radiohead – PushPulk Spinning Plates.mov";
#X prefix_set 0 1 D:/Anything/temp/ 0;
#P newex 66 302 62 9109513 prepend read;
#P newex 66 350 91 9109513 jit.qt.movie @rate 0;
#P toggle 100 47 15 0;
#P newex 100 68 45 9109513 metro 40;
#P window linecount 9;
#P comment 235 49 100 9109513 When max is in overdrive: only when you load the same movie twice , the correct framecount will be used to display the last frame of the movie. Obviously this is an incorrect patch.;
#P connect 8 0 7 0;
#P connect 7 0 11 0;
#P connect 11 0 6 0;
#P connect 6 0 5 0;
#P connect 11 1 5 0;
#P fasten 5 0 16 0 26 347 39 347;
#P connect 16 0 15 0;
#P connect 15 0 17 0;
#P connect 5 1 21 0;
#P connect 21 0 4 0;
#P connect 4 0 9 0;
#P connect 14 0 3 0;
#P connect 9 1 3 0;
#P connect 9 0 3 0;
#P connect 12 0 3 0;
#P connect 3 0 15 1;
#P connect 21 1 19 0;
#P connect 20 1 19 0;
#P connect 19 0 20 0;
#P connect 20 0 14 0;
#P connect 24 0 2 0;
#P connect 2 0 1 0;
#P connect 1 0 22 0;
#P connect 22 0 13 0;
#P connect 13 0 19 1;
#P connect 14 1 12 0;
#P connect 10 0 13 1;
#P connect 15 1 18 0;
#P connect 22 1 23 0;
#P connect 3 1 10 0;
#P window clipboard copycount 25;

Cheers,
Mattijs


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