Vector Synthesis Implementation- Help Needed!

Jun 11, 2007 at 2:14pm

Vector Synthesis Implementation- Help Needed!

Hello everbody,

I’m a music technology student and for my synthesis class final project I need make an implementation of vector synthesis.. Of course I have already done some search on internet and I am about to believe that vector synthesis, at its simplest form, is nothing more than mixing 4 sound sources by crossfading them into each other? So far it doesn’t sound that interesting. am I wrong? =/ or is there more to it, any thing that I missed?
What can be done to advance the basics of this synthesis technique? What can be added to the basic table mixing part of the implementation.. Other than involving other synthesis techniques such as additive/fm/sampling/wavetable to have diverse sonic outcome from the implementation..

I am begining to think that I got the whole idea wrong and that gets me quiet frustrated.. I’d really appreciate if any of you can tell me what is this all about and how can it be implemented in a more advanced way? I am going to be using MAX/MSP for the implementation. So I’d really like some help on that part too. I’ve already started workin on some patches but the “sounds” I came up with totally sucks=(( So far I don’t really feel like I am using this technique at full power.

Begining from the simple theory behind it (in case I miss something), any suggestions and information on this subject is greatly appreciated!!

Thanks a lot!

P.T.

#32412
Jun 11, 2007 at 3:13pm

On 11 juin 07, at 16:15, audiLe wrote:

> I’m a music technology student and for my synthesis class final
> project I need make an implementation of vector synthesis.. Of course
> I have already done some search on internet and I am about to believe
> that vector synthesis, at its simplest form, is nothing more than
> mixing 4 sound sources by crossfading them into each other? So far it
> doesn’t sound that interesting. am I wrong? =/ or is there more to it,
> any thing that I missed?

Did you already heard about the Korg Wavestation? It sounds
interesting. And is based on vector synthesis. And isn’t that obvious
to implement.

_____________________________
Patrick Delges

Centre de Recherches et de Formation Musicales de Wallonie asbl

http://users.skynet.be/crfmw/max

#106568
Jun 11, 2007 at 3:13pm

There seem to be all kinds of ways to make it more complex… the way
you crossfade seems to be one. crossfading using volume alone might
not seem to interesting, but you could use waveshaping, a wavetable
that lets you interpolate, jitter or fft or something else to
crossfade.

Also, the interface/sequencer seems to be the interesting part. You
could great things with those.

Keith

On 6/11/07, audiLe

wrote:
>
> Hello everbody,
>
> I’m a music technology student and for my synthesis class final project I need make an implementation of vector synthesis.. Of course I have already done some search on internet and I am about to believe that vector synthesis, at its simplest form, is nothing more than mixing 4 sound sources by crossfading them into each other? So far it doesn’t sound that interesting. am I wrong? =/ or is there more to it, any thing that I missed?
> What can be done to advance the basics of this synthesis technique? What can be added to the basic table mixing part of the implementation.. Other than involving other synthesis techniques such as additive/fm/sampling/wavetable to have diverse sonic outcome from the implementation..
>
> I am begining to think that I got the whole idea wrong and that gets me quiet frustrated.. I’d really appreciate if any of you can tell me what is this all about and how can it be implemented in a more advanced way? I am going to be using MAX/MSP for the implementation. So I’d really like some help on that part too. I’ve already started workin on some patches but the “sounds” I came up with totally sucks=(( So far I don’t really feel like I am using this technique at full power.
>
> Begining from the simple theory behind it (in case I miss something), any suggestions and information on this subject is greatly appreciated!!
>
>
> Thanks a lot!
>
> P.T.
>

#106569
Jun 11, 2007 at 6:27pm

On 11 Jun 2007, at 15:15, audiLe wrote:

> What can be done to advance the basics of this synthesis technique?
> What can be added to the basic table mixing part of the
> implementation..

The Prophet VS allowed specific mixpoints to be resampled and used as
source waves.

The Wavestation implemented wave sequencing as well as vector mixing.

Or you could look into Waldorf-style algorithmic wavetable generation.

(I’m sure all these things are googlable.)

Nick Rothwell / Cassiel.com Limited
http://www.cassiel.com
http://www.myspace.com/cassieldotcom
http://www.loadbang.net

#106570
Jun 12, 2007 at 9:26am

audiLe schrieb:
> At its simplest form, is nothing more than mixing 4 sound sources by
> crossfading them into each other? So far it doesn’t sound that
> interesting.

Yes, it was just a marketing hype. An easy task for doing a synthesis
class final project. Its made up to be solvable also for just average
designers…
But there is one interesting thing about it, its user interface, having
a trackpad/joystick to interpolate through different states.

Look at Hipno to see what you can do with this kind of concept. The
synthesis engine behind it could be anything, if you store your
synthesizer parameters in a pattrstorage, you can create nice
interpolation of all sorts. (Not only crossfade between sounds, also
interpolate all parameters…)
I am sure you’ll come up with more interesting stuff than the commercial
vector synths…

Good luck…

Stefan


Stefan Tiedje————x——-
–_____———–|————–
–(_|_ —-|—–|—–()——-
– _|_)—-|—–()————–
———-()——–www.ccmix.com

#106571
Jun 12, 2007 at 9:26am

Patrick Delges schrieb:
> Did you already heard about the Korg Wavestation? It sounds interesting.
> And is based on vector synthesis. And isn’t that obvious to implement.

Ah, I still have one (the A/D rack) without use for it, anybody
interested?…

Stefan


Stefan Tiedje————x——-
–_____———–|————–
–(_|_ —-|—–|—–()——-
– _|_)—-|—–()————–
———-()——–www.ccmix.com

#106572
Jun 12, 2007 at 9:55am

Stefan Tiedje skrev:
> Patrick Delges schrieb:
>> Did you already heard about the Korg Wavestation? It sounds
>> interesting. And is based on vector synthesis. And isn’t that obvious
>> to implement.
>
> Ah, I still have one (the A/D rack) without use for it, anybody
> interested?…
>
> Stefan
Sure, send it over, hehe.
Andreas.

#106573
Jun 12, 2007 at 11:48am

Quote: Stefan Tiedje wrote
—————————————————-
> But there is one interesting thing about it, its user interface, having
> a trackpad/joystick to interpolate through different states.
>
> Look at Hipno to see what you can do with this kind of concept. The
> synthesis engine behind it could be anything, if you store your
> synthesizer parameters in a pattrstorage, you can create nice
> interpolation of all sorts. (Not only crossfade between sounds, also
> interpolate all parameters…)
> I am sure you’ll come up with more interesting stuff than the commercial
> vector synths…
>
> Good luck…
>
> Stefan

Quote: keithmanlove wrote
—————————————————-
> but you could use waveshaping, a wavetable
> that lets you interpolate, jitter or fft or something else to
> crossfade.
>
> Also, the interface/sequencer seems to be the interesting part. You
> could great things with those.
>
> Keith

Thanks everybody for answering my question=)
I have more to think about now.

I was planing to use joystick or trackpad actually for the interaction part Stefan. where I got stuck was the -as you put it- synthesis engine behind. Or the sound sources, where/how would I get them and how would I change them dynamicaly.. I am not really happy with the additive synth modules I used so far. now that interpolation is on the game I hope I can come up with more dynamic parameter changes.. so far it wasn’t more that amp modulation, or pitch chage (beside crossfading).. Just like Keith metioned (above) waveshaping or some other stuff could be added I guess.. Since vector synthesis alone (table mixing whatsoever) doesnt really sound interesting.

thanks again guys for your answers. I might also have questions regarding these issues (interpolation, waveshaping etc) later on. But for now I am on research mode=) How I can come up with a sensible implementation, if not “powerfull”.

Pinar.

#106574

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