video out / in for mac's

Mar 24, 2007 at 5:27pm

video out / in for mac's

jittery friends!

i’m rendering openGL stuff on two different machines (mac pro’s). i would now like to concatenate the two generated images in order to project them with just one projector.

i have a third mac pro standing around, which i could use for this. so i have been looking into jit.qt.videoout but the readback GPU-CPU is VERY slow.

does anyone have an idea how i can get the two images onto the same projector?

any help very appreciated!
gracias,

robin

#31010
Mar 24, 2007 at 7:43pm

One solution would put you at 2x SD inputs on the macpro — 2
DFG-1394′s each taking s-video in on the third machine, then glue
them together for 1280×480

A more solid solution would be to use a hardware ‘seamless graphics
switcher’ such as TVOne, Folsom Research or Analog Way, this would
let you mix/scale/side by side 2 vga or dvi inputs – but this is
costly, although maybe not so bad to rent for a night or a week.

but it seems like trying to render both openGL stuffs on a single
machine would be the optimal solution.

deKam

> i’m rendering openGL stuff on two different machines (mac pro’s). i
> would now like to concatenate the two generated images in order to
> project them with just one projector.
>
> i have a third mac pro standing around, which i could use for this.
> so i have been looking into jit.qt.videoout but the readback GPU-
> CPU is VERY slow.
>
> does anyone have an idea how i can get the two images onto the same
> projector?
>
> any help very appreciated!
> gracias,

#99936
Mar 24, 2007 at 8:06pm

What is the reason that you want to do the opengl rendering on two different machines? GPU performance maximum? If not, it is possibly better to have the two machines send low-level rendering commands to the third machine via ethernet (after dealing with the user interface, all kinds of calculations, etc) and let the third machine do the rendering.

On the other hand I am interested in the best way (especially with the smallest latency) to get any video from one computer into another. I’m a noob at this. Would it really be necessary to convert to analogue and back, Johnny?

I never really understood the jit.qt.videoout object. It needs a separate device. This is probably naive but shouldn’t it be possible to simply stream the video to a firewire port, connect it with a firewire cable to the other computer and grab it with jit.qt.grab?

Best,
Mattijs

Quote: robin.meier wrote on Sat, 24 March 2007 18:27
—————————————————-
> jittery friends!
>
> i’m rendering openGL stuff on two different machines (mac pro’s). i would now like to concatenate the two generated images in order to project them with just one projector.
>
> i have a third mac pro standing around, which i could use for this. so i have been looking into jit.qt.videoout but the readback GPU-CPU is VERY slow.
>
> does anyone have an idea how i can get the two images onto the same projector?
>
> any help very appreciated!
> gracias,
>
> robin
—————————————————-

#99937
Mar 24, 2007 at 9:07pm

> On the other hand I am interested in the best way (especially with
> the smallest latency) to get any video from one computer into
> another. I’m a noob at this. Would it really be necessary to
> convert to analogue and back, Johnny?

it all really depends on for what purpose.. for realtime processing
it sounds like?

moving matrices over ethernet seems to be a popular choice, but
people have mixed results with resolution and frame rate, there are
alot of ‘ideal network’ variables to consider. personally i prefer
the high quality hardware approach. use a good, low latency video
digitizer.

the top three:

the Decklink Intensity card will let you move up to HD resolution
video from one machine to another at very high quality. note though
that the output resolution must be a legal broadcast signal, but the
sending Mac should ‘see’ the Intensity card as legal automatically
(with a DVI to HDMI adapter) the signal is uncompressed, 12 bit
color fidelity, but very high datarate.

DFG-1394 – most popular for Jitter because of low cost – uses IIDC
uncompressed Firewire YUV color.

AJA IO – proprietary uncompressed firewire solution, SD resolution,
10bit color (most costly of the 3, i would choose Intensity over this)

all of them surely do have ‘some’ latency, a couple frames or so.

jit.qt.video is a poor option – firewire dv is high latency, and it
takes alot of cpu on both sides of the equation.

-deKam

#99938
Mar 24, 2007 at 9:20pm

Thanks for the info. Time to give the DFG-1394 a try :)

Still wondering about the direct firewire to firewire approach though.

Thanks,
Mattijs

Quote: Johnny deKam wrote on Sat, 24 March 2007 22:07
—————————————————-
> > On the other hand I am interested in the best way (especially with
> > the smallest latency) to get any video from one computer into
> > another. I’m a noob at this. Would it really be necessary to
> > convert to analogue and back, Johnny?
>
> it all really depends on for what purpose.. for realtime processing
> it sounds like?
>
> moving matrices over ethernet seems to be a popular choice, but
> people have mixed results with resolution and frame rate, there are
> alot of ‘ideal network’ variables to consider. personally i prefer
> the high quality hardware approach. use a good, low latency video
> digitizer.
>
> the top three:
>
> the Decklink Intensity card will let you move up to HD resolution
> video from one machine to another at very high quality. note though
> that the output resolution must be a legal broadcast signal, but the
> sending Mac should ‘see’ the Intensity card as legal automatically
> (with a DVI to HDMI adapter) the signal is uncompressed, 12 bit
> color fidelity, but very high datarate.
>
> DFG-1394 – most popular for Jitter because of low cost – uses IIDC
> uncompressed Firewire YUV color.
>
> AJA IO – proprietary uncompressed firewire solution, SD resolution,
> 10bit color (most costly of the 3, i would choose Intensity over this)
>
> all of them surely do have ‘some’ latency, a couple frames or so.
>
> jit.qt.video is a poor option – firewire dv is high latency, and it
> takes alot of cpu on both sides of the equation.
>
> -deKam
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
—————————————————-

#99939
Mar 26, 2007 at 6:59am

>
> the Decklink Intensity card will let you move up to HD resolution
> video from one machine to another at very high quality. note
> though that the output resolution must be a legal broadcast signal,
> but the sending Mac should ‘see’ the Intensity card as legal
> automatically (with a DVI to HDMI adapter) the signal is
> uncompressed, 12 bit color fidelity, but very high datarate.
>

Did you actually try this yourself? The people from Decklink state
the Intensity card won’t work to record computer output DVI, due to
differences in signal between HDMI and DVI (RGB/YUV and 50fps/60fps
etc).

Let me know,
Best Lucas

#99940
Mar 26, 2007 at 12:43pm

thank you all for your advice.

i’m still trying to figure out the best way to do my thing…:

someone told me that it is possible to use the firewire port like a second monitor on osx. that would be great, since i wouldn’t need to get my openGL stuff back into jit.matrix. however, is that true (never heard of this before)? how would i use my FW port as a second monitor?

along a similar line of thought: i tried sending the video using jit.qt.videoout via firewire to another mac using jit.qt.grab. however that didn’t work. none of the macs showed up as a device in ubumenu. so how would i do that?

thanks again!
best,

robin

#99941
Mar 26, 2007 at 2:28pm

I haven’t actually tried it, this was based on my experience of being
able to connect my macbook to an HD CRT television using a dvi->hdmi
adapter (when doing so the mac enabled ATSC legal resolutions for
1080i and 720p – i believe vade confirmed my findings(?) – if for
some reason it didn’t work, there is always going DVI to HD-SDI –
though this is much more expensive.

–jdk

>>
>> the Decklink Intensity card will let you move up to HD resolution
>> video from one machine to another at very high quality. note
>> though that the output resolution must be a legal broadcast
>> signal, but the sending Mac should ‘see’ the Intensity card as
>> legal automatically (with a DVI to HDMI adapter) the signal is
>> uncompressed, 12 bit color fidelity, but very high datarate.
>>
>
>
> Did you actually try this yourself? The people from Decklink state
> the Intensity card won’t work to record computer output DVI, due to
> differences in signal between HDMI and DVI (RGB/YUV and 50fps/60fps
> etc).
>
> Let me know,
> Best Lucas
>
>
>
>
>

#99942
Mar 26, 2007 at 3:36pm

Vade, can you confirm this?
Best Lucas

On Mar 26, 2007, at 4:28 PM, dekam wrote:

>
> I haven’t actually tried it, this was based on my experience of
> being able to connect my macbook to an HD CRT television using a
> dvi->hdmi adapter (when doing so the mac enabled ATSC legal
> resolutions for 1080i and 720p – i believe vade confirmed my
> findings(?) – if for some reason it didn’t work, there is always
> going DVI to HD-SDI – though this is much more expensive.
>
> –jdk
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>>
>>> the Decklink Intensity card will let you move up to HD resolution
>>> video from one machine to another at very high quality. note
>>> though that the output resolution must be a legal broadcast
>>> signal, but the sending Mac should ‘see’ the Intensity card as
>>> legal automatically (with a DVI to HDMI adapter) the signal is
>>> uncompressed, 12 bit color fidelity, but very high datarate.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Did you actually try this yourself? The people from Decklink state
>> the Intensity card won’t work to record computer output DVI, due
>> to differences in signal between HDMI and DVI (RGB/YUV and 50fps/
>> 60fps etc).
>>
>> Let me know,
>> Best Lucas
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

#99943
Mar 26, 2007 at 4:01pm

Quote: robin.meier wrote on Mon, 26 March 2007 14:43
—————————————————-
> along a similar line of thought: i tried sending the video using jit.qt.videoout via firewire to another mac using jit.qt.grab. however that didn’t work. none of the macs showed up as a device in ubumenu. so how would i do that?

hey, that was my question! ;) (see earlier in this thread)

Mattijs

#99944
Mar 26, 2007 at 5:48pm

We just got our intensity cards, and are having some odd issues with
both of them. So I cannot confirm that it works 100% at this time. We
are able to get image input via DVI out from a Macbook to a Mac Pro
via DVI -> HDMI adaptor, but have really weird color issues. Its not
just jitter, but FCP as well. I havent spoken to blackmagic but will
take a look at it once I get back to NYC in a few days personally :)

(wow that makes me sound all important and shit :)

Ill let the list know how things go once I get my hands on it myself.

On Mar 26, 2007, at 5:36 PM, subzero wrote:

> Vade, can you confirm this?
> Best Lucas
>
> On Mar 26, 2007, at 4:28 PM, dekam wrote:
>
>>
>> I haven’t actually tried it, this was based on my experience of
>> being able to connect my macbook to an HD CRT television using a
>> dvi->hdmi adapter (when doing so the mac enabled ATSC legal
>> resolutions for 1080i and 720p – i believe vade confirmed my
>> findings(?) – if for some reason it didn’t work, there is always
>> going DVI to HD-SDI – though this is much more expensive.
>>
>> –jdk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>> the Decklink Intensity card will let you move up to HD
>>>> resolution video from one machine to another at very high
>>>> quality. note though that the output resolution must be a legal
>>>> broadcast signal, but the sending Mac should ‘see’ the Intensity
>>>> card as legal automatically (with a DVI to HDMI adapter) the
>>>> signal is uncompressed, 12 bit color fidelity, but very high
>>>> datarate.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Did you actually try this yourself? The people from Decklink
>>> state the Intensity card won’t work to record computer output
>>> DVI, due to differences in signal between HDMI and DVI (RGB/YUV
>>> and 50fps/60fps etc).
>>>
>>> Let me know,
>>> Best Lucas
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

v a d e //

http://www.vade.info
abstrakt.vade.info

#99945
Mar 26, 2007 at 6:32pm

I should note that I emailed decklink to ask about the colorspace
issue and they stated it should work (at least the email drone who
replied to me did). I asked my co-worker to try some colorspace
conversion objects within jitter, but what is odd is that the cards
are showing issues in FCP, on Air and in Jitter, so I dont know if
its some weird problem with both cards, or if this wont work. Either
way I will report back asap :)

On Mar 26, 2007, at 7:48 PM, vade wrote:

> We just got our intensity cards, and are having some odd issues
> with both of them. So I cannot confirm that it works 100% at this
> time. We are able to get image input via DVI out from a Macbook to
> a Mac Pro via DVI -> HDMI adaptor, but have really weird color
> issues. Its not just jitter, but FCP as well. I havent spoken to
> blackmagic but will take a look at it once I get back to NYC in a
> few days personally :)
>
> (wow that makes me sound all important and shit :)
>
> Ill let the list know how things go once I get my hands on it myself.
>
> On Mar 26, 2007, at 5:36 PM, subzero wrote:
>
>> Vade, can you confirm this?
>> Best Lucas
>>
>> On Mar 26, 2007, at 4:28 PM, dekam wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I haven’t actually tried it, this was based on my experience of
>>> being able to connect my macbook to an HD CRT television using a
>>> dvi->hdmi adapter (when doing so the mac enabled ATSC legal
>>> resolutions for 1080i and 720p – i believe vade confirmed my
>>> findings(?) – if for some reason it didn’t work, there is always
>>> going DVI to HD-SDI – though this is much more expensive.
>>>
>>> –jdk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> the Decklink Intensity card will let you move up to HD
>>>>> resolution video from one machine to another at very high
>>>>> quality. note though that the output resolution must be a
>>>>> legal broadcast signal, but the sending Mac should ‘see’ the
>>>>> Intensity card as legal automatically (with a DVI to HDMI
>>>>> adapter) the signal is uncompressed, 12 bit color fidelity,
>>>>> but very high datarate.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Did you actually try this yourself? The people from Decklink
>>>> state the Intensity card won’t work to record computer output
>>>> DVI, due to differences in signal between HDMI and DVI (RGB/YUV
>>>> and 50fps/60fps etc).
>>>>
>>>> Let me know,
>>>> Best Lucas
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
> v a d e //
>
> http://www.vade.info
> abstrakt.vade.info
>
>
>

v a d e //

http://www.vade.info
abstrakt.vade.info

#99946
Mar 26, 2007 at 10:36pm

Hello Vade, this sounds as expected. This is what Dan May
(Blackmagic), states about using the Intensity card for recording a
DVI source:

Q. Can I convert DVI to HDMI with a converter (similar to the bender
that comes with HDLink/Multibridge Extreme) and capture that HDMI
video signal with these new cards?

A. UNLIKELY- as Intensity cards are looking for YUV video and
supported television frame rates and resolution.

This request generally comes from folks looking to take the DVI
output of their computer and convert it to HDMI to be captured as
video. The problem here is that while DVI and YUV share a similar pin
out structure they are not the same entirely, particularly in color
space. DVI coming out of the computer is going to be RGB 8 bit, and
HDMI can actually be YUV or RGB. The ‘bender’ is going to convert the
DVI RGB signal to HDMI RGB and technically so long as you have a
video frame rate and resolution (like you would with a HDLink) you
can feed that to most HDMI monitors. However the Intensity cards can
only take YUV video signals and will not be able to take in the RGB
signals (video frame rate and resolution correct or otherwise).

this info comes from: http://www.avalive.biz/blog/2006/12/faqs-on-
blackmagic-design-intensity.html

Anyway, Dan May might be overlooking some tricks to get it working,
so keep us posted.

Best Lucas

On Mar 26, 2007, at 8:32 PM, vade wrote:

> I should note that I emailed decklink to ask about the colorspace
> issue and they stated it should work (at least the email drone who
> replied to me did). I asked my co-worker to try some colorspace
> conversion objects within jitter, but what is odd is that the cards
> are showing issues in FCP, on Air and in Jitter, so I dont know if
> its some weird problem with both cards, or if this wont work.
> Either way I will report back asap :)
>
>
>
> On Mar 26, 2007, at 7:48 PM, vade wrote:
>
>> We just got our intensity cards, and are having some odd issues
>> with both of them. So I cannot confirm that it works 100% at this
>> time. We are able to get image input via DVI out from a Macbook to
>> a Mac Pro via DVI -> HDMI adaptor, but have really weird color
>> issues. Its not just jitter, but FCP as well. I havent spoken to
>> blackmagic but will take a look at it once I get back to NYC in a
>> few days personally :)
>>
>> (wow that makes me sound all important and shit :)
>>
>> Ill let the list know how things go once I get my hands on it myself.
>>
>> On Mar 26, 2007, at 5:36 PM, subzero wrote:
>>
>>> Vade, can you confirm this?
>>> Best Lucas
>>>
>>> On Mar 26, 2007, at 4:28 PM, dekam wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I haven’t actually tried it, this was based on my experience of
>>>> being able to connect my macbook to an HD CRT television using a
>>>> dvi->hdmi adapter (when doing so the mac enabled ATSC legal
>>>> resolutions for 1080i and 720p – i believe vade confirmed my
>>>> findings(?) – if for some reason it didn’t work, there is always
>>>> going DVI to HD-SDI – though this is much more expensive.
>>>>
>>>> –jdk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> the Decklink Intensity card will let you move up to HD
>>>>>> resolution video from one machine to another at very high
>>>>>> quality. note though that the output resolution must be a
>>>>>> legal broadcast signal, but the sending Mac should ‘see’ the
>>>>>> Intensity card as legal automatically (with a DVI to HDMI
>>>>>> adapter) the signal is uncompressed, 12 bit color fidelity,
>>>>>> but very high datarate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Did you actually try this yourself? The people from Decklink
>>>>> state the Intensity card won’t work to record computer output
>>>>> DVI, due to differences in signal between HDMI and DVI (RGB/YUV
>>>>> and 50fps/60fps etc).
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me know,
>>>>> Best Lucas
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> v a d e //
>>
>> http://www.vade.info
>> abstrakt.vade.info
>>
>>
>>
>
> v a d e //
>
> http://www.vade.info
> abstrakt.vade.info
>
>
>

#99947
Mar 27, 2007 at 10:27am

Fuckers. I hate email drones. That makes perfect sense however, in
retrospect, the Decklink support page only lists YUV as supported
colorspace. Ill see if I cant wing a shader to do the color
conversion. If so, ill definitely post it.

That is rather odd, as most other Decklink products can deal with RGB
in. I really wish AJA had a solution (Ive actually called to ask them
about this), I find AJA products to be much higher quality and their
spport much better.

Anyway, good find. I did a search for that info earlier, and missed
that link.

Thanks – I still think we can wing something :)

On Mar 27, 2007, at 12:36 AM, subzero wrote:

> Hello Vade, this sounds as expected. This is what Dan May
> (Blackmagic), states about using the Intensity card for recording a
> DVI source:
>
> Q. Can I convert DVI to HDMI with a converter (similar to the
> bender that comes with HDLink/Multibridge Extreme) and capture that
> HDMI video signal with these new cards?
>
> A. UNLIKELY- as Intensity cards are looking for YUV video and
> supported television frame rates and resolution.
>
> This request generally comes from folks looking to take the DVI
> output of their computer and convert it to HDMI to be captured as
> video. The problem here is that while DVI and YUV share a similar
> pin out structure they are not the same entirely, particularly in
> color space. DVI coming out of the computer is going to be RGB 8
> bit, and HDMI can actually be YUV or RGB. The ‘bender’ is going to
> convert the DVI RGB signal to HDMI RGB and technically so long as
> you have a video frame rate and resolution (like you would with a
> HDLink) you can feed that to most HDMI monitors. However the
> Intensity cards can only take YUV video signals and will not be
> able to take in the RGB signals (video frame rate and resolution
> correct or otherwise).
>
> this info comes from: http://www.avalive.biz/blog/2006/12/faqs-on-
> blackmagic-design-intensity.html
>
> Anyway, Dan May might be overlooking some tricks to get it working,
> so keep us posted.
>
> Best Lucas
>
>
>
> On Mar 26, 2007, at 8:32 PM, vade wrote:
>
>> I should note that I emailed decklink to ask about the colorspace
>> issue and they stated it should work (at least the email drone who
>> replied to me did). I asked my co-worker to try some colorspace
>> conversion objects within jitter, but what is odd is that the
>> cards are showing issues in FCP, on Air and in Jitter, so I dont
>> know if its some weird problem with both cards, or if this wont
>> work. Either way I will report back asap :)
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 26, 2007, at 7:48 PM, vade wrote:
>>
>>> We just got our intensity cards, and are having some odd issues
>>> with both of them. So I cannot confirm that it works 100% at this
>>> time. We are able to get image input via DVI out from a Macbook
>>> to a Mac Pro via DVI -> HDMI adaptor, but have really weird color
>>> issues. Its not just jitter, but FCP as well. I havent spoken to
>>> blackmagic but will take a look at it once I get back to NYC in a
>>> few days personally :)
>>>
>>> (wow that makes me sound all important and shit :)
>>>
>>> Ill let the list know how things go once I get my hands on it
>>> myself.
>>>
>>> On Mar 26, 2007, at 5:36 PM, subzero wrote:
>>>
>>>> Vade, can you confirm this?
>>>> Best Lucas
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 26, 2007, at 4:28 PM, dekam wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I haven’t actually tried it, this was based on my experience of
>>>>> being able to connect my macbook to an HD CRT television using
>>>>> a dvi->hdmi adapter (when doing so the mac enabled ATSC legal
>>>>> resolutions for 1080i and 720p – i believe vade confirmed my
>>>>> findings(?) – if for some reason it didn’t work, there is
>>>>> always going DVI to HD-SDI – though this is much more expensive.
>>>>>
>>>>> –jdk
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the Decklink Intensity card will let you move up to HD
>>>>>>> resolution video from one machine to another at very high
>>>>>>> quality. note though that the output resolution must be a
>>>>>>> legal broadcast signal, but the sending Mac should ‘see’ the
>>>>>>> Intensity card as legal automatically (with a DVI to HDMI
>>>>>>> adapter) the signal is uncompressed, 12 bit color fidelity,
>>>>>>> but very high datarate.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Did you actually try this yourself? The people from Decklink
>>>>>> state the Intensity card won’t work to record computer output
>>>>>> DVI, due to differences in signal between HDMI and DVI (RGB/
>>>>>> YUV and 50fps/60fps etc).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let me know,
>>>>>> Best Lucas
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> v a d e //
>>>
>>> http://www.vade.info
>>> abstrakt.vade.info
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> v a d e //
>>
>> http://www.vade.info
>> abstrakt.vade.info
>>
>>
>>
>

v a d e //

http://www.vade.info
abstrakt.vade.info

#99948
Mar 27, 2007 at 11:46am

jit.findbounds puts out the min and max XY-values of matching pixels.
how would it be possible to examine the whole matrix and output the
xy-coordinates of each matching pixel?

what i want to do is to have a face looking into a camera -> treat
that input with jit.op to leaf only the outlines of the face as white
pixels -> this x-y-coordinates of those pixels should now be
translated into 3d gl space to draw some geometry over the outlines
of the face.
thanks, michael

#99949
Mar 27, 2007 at 1:52pm

Hee Vade, if it is true what Dan May states, then using this
converter should solve the problem:
http://www.converters.tv/products/vga_to_vga/442.html
It converts the computer signal (WUXGA (1920×1200)) to HDTV signal
(HD 1080i). But to be sure this also converts rgb to yuv one should
check with the company producing these converters..

Best Lucas

On Mar 27, 2007, at 12:27 PM, vade wrote:

> Fuckers. I hate email drones. That makes perfect sense however, in
> retrospect, the Decklink support page only lists YUV as supported
> colorspace. Ill see if I cant wing a shader to do the color
> conversion. If so, ill definitely post it.
>
> That is rather odd, as most other Decklink products can deal with
> RGB in. I really wish AJA had a solution (Ive actually called to
> ask them about this), I find AJA products to be much higher quality
> and their spport much better.
>
> Anyway, good find. I did a search for that info earlier, and missed
> that link.
>
> Thanks – I still think we can wing something :)
>
>
> On Mar 27, 2007, at 12:36 AM, subzero wrote:
>
>> Hello Vade, this sounds as expected. This is what Dan May
>> (Blackmagic), states about using the Intensity card for recording
>> a DVI source:
>>
>> Q. Can I convert DVI to HDMI with a converter (similar to the
>> bender that comes with HDLink/Multibridge Extreme) and capture
>> that HDMI video signal with these new cards?
>>
>> A. UNLIKELY- as Intensity cards are looking for YUV video and
>> supported television frame rates and resolution.
>>
>> This request generally comes from folks looking to take the DVI
>> output of their computer and convert it to HDMI to be captured as
>> video. The problem here is that while DVI and YUV share a similar
>> pin out structure they are not the same entirely, particularly in
>> color space. DVI coming out of the computer is going to be RGB 8
>> bit, and HDMI can actually be YUV or RGB. The ‘bender’ is going to
>> convert the DVI RGB signal to HDMI RGB and technically so long as
>> you have a video frame rate and resolution (like you would with a
>> HDLink) you can feed that to most HDMI monitors. However the
>> Intensity cards can only take YUV video signals and will not be
>> able to take in the RGB signals (video frame rate and resolution
>> correct or otherwise).
>>
>> this info comes from: http://www.avalive.biz/blog/2006/12/faqs-on-
>> blackmagic-design-intensity.html
>>
>> Anyway, Dan May might be overlooking some tricks to get it
>> working, so keep us posted.
>>
>> Best Lucas
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 26, 2007, at 8:32 PM, vade wrote:
>>
>>> I should note that I emailed decklink to ask about the colorspace
>>> issue and they stated it should work (at least the email drone
>>> who replied to me did). I asked my co-worker to try some
>>> colorspace conversion objects within jitter, but what is odd is
>>> that the cards are showing issues in FCP, on Air and in Jitter,
>>> so I dont know if its some weird problem with both cards, or if
>>> this wont work. Either way I will report back asap :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 26, 2007, at 7:48 PM, vade wrote:
>>>
>>>> We just got our intensity cards, and are having some odd issues
>>>> with both of them. So I cannot confirm that it works 100% at
>>>> this time. We are able to get image input via DVI out from a
>>>> Macbook to a Mac Pro via DVI -> HDMI adaptor, but have really
>>>> weird color issues. Its not just jitter, but FCP as well. I
>>>> havent spoken to blackmagic but will take a look at it once I
>>>> get back to NYC in a few days personally :)
>>>>
>>>> (wow that makes me sound all important and shit :)
>>>>
>>>> Ill let the list know how things go once I get my hands on it
>>>> myself.
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 26, 2007, at 5:36 PM, subzero wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Vade, can you confirm this?
>>>>> Best Lucas
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 26, 2007, at 4:28 PM, dekam wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I haven’t actually tried it, this was based on my experience
>>>>>> of being able to connect my macbook to an HD CRT television
>>>>>> using a dvi->hdmi adapter (when doing so the mac enabled ATSC
>>>>>> legal resolutions for 1080i and 720p – i believe vade
>>>>>> confirmed my findings(?) – if for some reason it didn’t work,
>>>>>> there is always going DVI to HD-SDI – though this is much more
>>>>>> expensive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> –jdk
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the Decklink Intensity card will let you move up to HD
>>>>>>>> resolution video from one machine to another at very high
>>>>>>>> quality. note though that the output resolution must be a
>>>>>>>> legal broadcast signal, but the sending Mac should ‘see’ the
>>>>>>>> Intensity card as legal automatically (with a DVI to HDMI
>>>>>>>> adapter) the signal is uncompressed, 12 bit color fidelity,
>>>>>>>> but very high datarate.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Did you actually try this yourself? The people from Decklink
>>>>>>> state the Intensity card won’t work to record computer output
>>>>>>> DVI, due to differences in signal between HDMI and DVI (RGB/
>>>>>>> YUV and 50fps/60fps etc).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let me know,
>>>>>>> Best Lucas
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> v a d e //
>>>>
>>>> http://www.vade.info
>>>> abstrakt.vade.info
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> v a d e //
>>>
>>> http://www.vade.info
>>> abstrakt.vade.info
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> v a d e //
>
> http://www.vade.info
> abstrakt.vade.info
>
>
>

#99950
Mar 27, 2007 at 7:13pm

The company producing the converters is Cypress Technology

http://www.cypress.com.tw/category.php?CId=005

http://www.cypress.com.tw/category.php?CId=008

I tried to contact them with no sucess in september when the intensity
card came out, but they have some documentation :)

http://www.cypress.com.tw/product/pdf/CP-255H%20Manual.pdf

and it is distributed in France by Goyona: http://www.goyona.com

Bertrand

http://www.bertrandgondouin.net

2007/3/27, subzero :
> Hee Vade, if it is true what Dan May states, then using this
> converter should solve the problem:
> http://www.converters.tv/products/vga_to_vga/442.html
> It converts the computer signal (WUXGA (1920×1200)) to HDTV signal
> (HD 1080i). But to be sure this also converts rgb to yuv one should
> check with the company producing these converters..
>
> Best Lucas
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 27, 2007, at 12:27 PM, vade wrote:
>
> > Fuckers. I hate email drones. That makes perfect sense however, in
> > retrospect, the Decklink support page only lists YUV as supported
> > colorspace. Ill see if I cant wing a shader to do the color
> > conversion. If so, ill definitely post it.
> >
> > That is rather odd, as most other Decklink products can deal with
> > RGB in. I really wish AJA had a solution (Ive actually called to
> > ask them about this), I find AJA products to be much higher quality
> > and their spport much better.
> >
> > Anyway, good find. I did a search for that info earlier, and missed
> > that link.
> >
> > Thanks – I still think we can wing something :)
> >
> >
> > On Mar 27, 2007, at 12:36 AM, subzero wrote:
> >
> >> Hello Vade, this sounds as expected. This is what Dan May
> >> (Blackmagic), states about using the Intensity card for recording
> >> a DVI source:
> >>
> >> Q. Can I convert DVI to HDMI with a converter (similar to the
> >> bender that comes with HDLink/Multibridge Extreme) and capture
> >> that HDMI video signal with these new cards?
> >>
> >> A. UNLIKELY- as Intensity cards are looking for YUV video and
> >> supported television frame rates and resolution.
> >>
> >> This request generally comes from folks looking to take the DVI
> >> output of their computer and convert it to HDMI to be captured as
> >> video. The problem here is that while DVI and YUV share a similar
> >> pin out structure they are not the same entirely, particularly in
> >> color space. DVI coming out of the computer is going to be RGB 8
> >> bit, and HDMI can actually be YUV or RGB. The ‘bender’ is going to
> >> convert the DVI RGB signal to HDMI RGB and technically so long as
> >> you have a video frame rate and resolution (like you would with a
> >> HDLink) you can feed that to most HDMI monitors. However the
> >> Intensity cards can only take YUV video signals and will not be
> >> able to take in the RGB signals (video frame rate and resolution
> >> correct or otherwise).
> >>
> >> this info comes from: http://www.avalive.biz/blog/2006/12/faqs-on-
> >> blackmagic-design-intensity.html
> >>
> >> Anyway, Dan May might be overlooking some tricks to get it
> >> working, so keep us posted.
> >>
> >> Best Lucas
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mar 26, 2007, at 8:32 PM, vade wrote:
> >>
> >>> I should note that I emailed decklink to ask about the colorspace
> >>> issue and they stated it should work (at least the email drone
> >>> who replied to me did). I asked my co-worker to try some
> >>> colorspace conversion objects within jitter, but what is odd is
> >>> that the cards are showing issues in FCP, on Air and in Jitter,
> >>> so I dont know if its some weird problem with both cards, or if
> >>> this wont work. Either way I will report back asap :)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Mar 26, 2007, at 7:48 PM, vade wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> We just got our intensity cards, and are having some odd issues
> >>>> with both of them. So I cannot confirm that it works 100% at
> >>>> this time. We are able to get image input via DVI out from a
> >>>> Macbook to a Mac Pro via DVI -> HDMI adaptor, but have really
> >>>> weird color issues. Its not just jitter, but FCP as well. I
> >>>> havent spoken to blackmagic but will take a look at it once I
> >>>> get back to NYC in a few days personally :)
> >>>>
> >>>> (wow that makes me sound all important and shit :)
> >>>>
> >>>> Ill let the list know how things go once I get my hands on it
> >>>> myself.
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mar 26, 2007, at 5:36 PM, subzero wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Vade, can you confirm this?
> >>>>> Best Lucas
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Mar 26, 2007, at 4:28 PM, dekam wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I haven’t actually tried it, this was based on my experience
> >>>>>> of being able to connect my macbook to an HD CRT television
> >>>>>> using a dvi->hdmi adapter (when doing so the mac enabled ATSC
> >>>>>> legal resolutions for 1080i and 720p – i believe vade
> >>>>>> confirmed my findings(?) – if for some reason it didn’t work,
> >>>>>> there is always going DVI to HD-SDI – though this is much more
> >>>>>> expensive.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> –jdk
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> the Decklink Intensity card will let you move up to HD
> >>>>>>>> resolution video from one machine to another at very high
> >>>>>>>> quality. note though that the output resolution must be a
> >>>>>>>> legal broadcast signal, but the sending Mac should ‘see’ the
> >>>>>>>> Intensity card as legal automatically (with a DVI to HDMI
> >>>>>>>> adapter) the signal is uncompressed, 12 bit color fidelity,
> >>>>>>>> but very high datarate.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Did you actually try this yourself? The people from Decklink
> >>>>>>> state the Intensity card won’t work to record computer output
> >>>>>>> DVI, due to differences in signal between HDMI and DVI (RGB/
> >>>>>>> YUV and 50fps/60fps etc).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Let me know,
> >>>>>>> Best Lucas
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> v a d e //
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.vade.info
> >>>> abstrakt.vade.info
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> v a d e //
> >>>
> >>> http://www.vade.info
> >>> abstrakt.vade.info
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> > v a d e //
> >
> > http://www.vade.info
> > abstrakt.vade.info
> >
> >
> >
>
>

#99951
Mar 28, 2007 at 1:58am

posted to the 0xff list,, i should have cc:ed here…

some more good news about using the DVI-HDMI format converter boxes in
conjunction with the black magic intensity card. already working for
recording a PC’s output, hopefully soon with a Mac as well…

see below..

———- Forwarded message ———-
From: Kristian Lam
Date: Mar 26, 2007 9:19 PM
Subject: Re: Recording from another computer’s output
To: jonathan lee marcus

Hi Jonathan,

http://www.converters.tv/products/dvi_converters_432.html

I tested this unit out and it seems to work ok with the graphics output from
a PC but did not work from the outputs of the Mac. Seems like there’s some
trouble syncing with this converter when using a Mac. I’ve written to the
company and they are looking into this. It might be possible to address this
but I’m waiting for more information from them.

Regards

Kristian Lam

Blackmagic Design

http://www.blackmagic-design.com

#99952
Mar 29, 2007 at 8:49pm

Well, I am a bit confused as I think there is some mis-communication
over at Decklink with regards to this cards capability. I just got an
email back from them stating that indeed, DVI out (RGB) from a
computer source to the Intensity card should work under the 1.2
drivers, however we are running 1.3 drivers and I simply cannot get
it to work as advertised in Jitter, FCP or On Air. 1.2 does not work
either.

Ive also been trying to fudge the YUV to RGB conversion, to no avail
- Jetlag is not helping.

So, lets posit that the Intensity card will only take in YUV 4:2:2…

I have an RGB source (say another Macs monitor in) being interpreted
as YUV 4:2:2 by the intensity card.

I ought to be able to tell jit.qt.grab to use colormode YUV (the docs
state that @colormode uyvy is equivalent to 4:2:2 YUV) , and then
force back a conversion to ARGB. However, Im failing miserably.
Anyone want to offer up some suggestions? Id really like to get this
working.

Im eagerly awaiting a more verbose explanation from Decklink about
this, because I do not think support and sales are communicating with
one another here :)

Thanks, ill let everyone know what I come up with in a few days. Wish
me luck!

On Mar 27, 2007, at 9:52 AM, subzero wrote:

> Hee Vade, if it is true what Dan May states, then using this
> converter should solve the problem:
> http://www.converters.tv/products/vga_to_vga/442.html
> It converts the computer signal (WUXGA (1920×1200)) to HDTV signal
> (HD 1080i). But to be sure this also converts rgb to yuv one should
> check with the company producing these converters..
>
> Best Lucas
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 27, 2007, at 12:27 PM, vade wrote:
>
>> Fuckers. I hate email drones. That makes perfect sense however, in
>> retrospect, the Decklink support page only lists YUV as supported
>> colorspace. Ill see if I cant wing a shader to do the color
>> conversion. If so, ill definitely post it.
>>
>> That is rather odd, as most other Decklink products can deal with
>> RGB in. I really wish AJA had a solution (Ive actually called to
>> ask them about this), I find AJA products to be much higher
>> quality and their spport much better.
>>
>> Anyway, good find. I did a search for that info earlier, and
>> missed that link.
>>
>> Thanks – I still think we can wing something :)
>>
>>
>> On Mar 27, 2007, at 12:36 AM, subzero wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Vade, this sounds as expected. This is what Dan May
>>> (Blackmagic), states about using the Intensity card for recording
>>> a DVI source:
>>>
>>> Q. Can I convert DVI to HDMI with a converter (similar to the
>>> bender that comes with HDLink/Multibridge Extreme) and capture
>>> that HDMI video signal with these new cards?
>>>
>>> A. UNLIKELY- as Intensity cards are looking for YUV video and
>>> supported television frame rates and resolution.
>>>
>>> This request generally comes from folks looking to take the DVI
>>> output of their computer and convert it to HDMI to be captured as
>>> video. The problem here is that while DVI and YUV share a similar
>>> pin out structure they are not the same entirely, particularly in
>>> color space. DVI coming out of the computer is going to be RGB 8
>>> bit, and HDMI can actually be YUV or RGB. The ‘bender’ is going
>>> to convert the DVI RGB signal to HDMI RGB and technically so long
>>> as you have a video frame rate and resolution (like you would
>>> with a HDLink) you can feed that to most HDMI monitors. However
>>> the Intensity cards can only take YUV video signals and will not
>>> be able to take in the RGB signals (video frame rate and
>>> resolution correct or otherwise).
>>>
>>> this info comes from: http://www.avalive.biz/blog/2006/12/faqs-on-
>>> blackmagic-design-intensity.html
>>>
>>> Anyway, Dan May might be overlooking some tricks to get it
>>> working, so keep us posted.
>>>
>>> Best Lucas
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 26, 2007, at 8:32 PM, vade wrote:
>>>
>>>> I should note that I emailed decklink to ask about the
>>>> colorspace issue and they stated it should work (at least the
>>>> email drone who replied to me did). I asked my co-worker to try
>>>> some colorspace conversion objects within jitter, but what is
>>>> odd is that the cards are showing issues in FCP, on Air and in
>>>> Jitter, so I dont know if its some weird problem with both
>>>> cards, or if this wont work. Either way I will report back asap :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 26, 2007, at 7:48 PM, vade wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> We just got our intensity cards, and are having some odd issues
>>>>> with both of them. So I cannot confirm that it works 100% at
>>>>> this time. We are able to get image input via DVI out from a
>>>>> Macbook to a Mac Pro via DVI -> HDMI adaptor, but have really
>>>>> weird color issues. Its not just jitter, but FCP as well. I
>>>>> havent spoken to blackmagic but will take a look at it once I
>>>>> get back to NYC in a few days personally :)
>>>>>
>>>>> (wow that makes me sound all important and shit :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Ill let the list know how things go once I get my hands on it
>>>>> myself.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 26, 2007, at 5:36 PM, subzero wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Vade, can you confirm this?
>>>>>> Best Lucas
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mar 26, 2007, at 4:28 PM, dekam wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I haven’t actually tried it, this was based on my experience
>>>>>>> of being able to connect my macbook to an HD CRT television
>>>>>>> using a dvi->hdmi adapter (when doing so the mac enabled ATSC
>>>>>>> legal resolutions for 1080i and 720p – i believe vade
>>>>>>> confirmed my findings(?) – if for some reason it didn’t work,
>>>>>>> there is always going DVI to HD-SDI – though this is much
>>>>>>> more expensive.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> –jdk
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> the Decklink Intensity card will let you move up to HD
>>>>>>>>> resolution video from one machine to another at very high
>>>>>>>>> quality. note though that the output resolution must be a
>>>>>>>>> legal broadcast signal, but the sending Mac should ‘see’
>>>>>>>>> the Intensity card as legal automatically (with a DVI to
>>>>>>>>> HDMI adapter) the signal is uncompressed, 12 bit color
>>>>>>>>> fidelity, but very high datarate.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Did you actually try this yourself? The people from Decklink
>>>>>>>> state the Intensity card won’t work to record computer
>>>>>>>> output DVI, due to differences in signal between HDMI and
>>>>>>>> DVI (RGB/YUV and 50fps/60fps etc).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Let me know,
>>>>>>>> Best Lucas
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> v a d e //
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.vade.info
>>>>> abstrakt.vade.info
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> v a d e //
>>>>
>>>> http://www.vade.info
>>>> abstrakt.vade.info
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> v a d e //
>>
>> http://www.vade.info
>> abstrakt.vade.info
>>
>>
>>
>

v a d e //

http://www.vade.info
abstrakt.vade.info

#99953
Mar 30, 2007 at 9:07am

On 29-mrt-2007, at 22:49, vade wrote:

> Well, I am a bit confused as I think there is some mis-
> communication over at Decklink with regards to this cards
> capability. I just got an email back from them stating that indeed,
> DVI out (RGB) from a computer source to the Intensity card should
> work under the 1.2 drivers, however we are running 1.3 drivers and
> I simply cannot get it to work as advertised in Jitter, FCP or On
> Air. 1.2 does not work either. Ive also been trying to fudge the
> YUV to RGB conversion, to no avail – Jetlag is not helping.
>

So are you seeing anything then, or nothing at all ? Also, have you
tried a DVI output from a PC ?

> Thanks, ill let everyone know what I come up with in a few days.
> Wish me luck!

Thank you and good luck !

Gideon

#99954
Mar 30, 2007 at 1:31pm

Yup I definitely get picture input that is locked, just the color is
wrong.

On Mar 30, 2007, at 5:07 AM, Gideon Kiers wrote:

>
> On 29-mrt-2007, at 22:49, vade wrote:
>
>> Well, I am a bit confused as I think there is some mis-
>> communication over at Decklink with regards to this cards
>> capability. I just got an email back from them stating that
>> indeed, DVI out (RGB) from a computer source to the Intensity card
>> should work under the 1.2 drivers, however we are running 1.3
>> drivers and I simply cannot get it to work as advertised in
>> Jitter, FCP or On Air. 1.2 does not work either. Ive also been
>> trying to fudge the YUV to RGB conversion, to no avail – Jetlag is
>> not helping.
>>
>
> So are you seeing anything then, or nothing at all ? Also, have you
> tried a DVI output from a PC ?
>
>> Thanks, ill let everyone know what I come up with in a few days.
>> Wish me luck!
>
> Thank you and good luck !
>
> Gideon

v a d e //

http://www.vade.info
abstrakt.vade.info

#99955
Apr 4, 2007 at 8:50pm

Just an update on this – I discovered that the Intensity Support Installer somehow missed some crucial elements on the first two tries. I was able to install the pkgs individually, which instigated a Firmware update, and am now getting accurate color representation from the Intensity in Jitter.

More to come – - -

#99956

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