Web page in Max

Jan 28, 2006 at 2:39pm

Web page in Max

Dear all, maybe you’ve already discuss this question in this forum, but I can’t find anything about it now. So, sorry for this not-original thread :)

I would like to write a web page in Max(MSP), or simply attach a patch inside a web page, so that it’s visible.

To do that, I’m thinking to use my Windows-pc (with MaxMsp 4.5 installed) as server, and shared the web-page using Microsoft IIS (Internet Information Service).

How can I do that? Is it possible?

Thank you veru much!

Bruno

#24143
Jan 28, 2006 at 3:29pm

hello list,

long time no see. a bit of off topicness: i really like new site, and forums
are cool. mail filters re-adjusted in few minutes. good work c74!

mr. bruno,

do you have jitter? if you do, you could use jit.desktop to capture window,
process it using standard jit objects(cropping for instance, or glueing),
export it to .jpg and put it on any ftp-enabled server using jit.uldl.
don’t know about ms iss.

#69388
Jan 28, 2006 at 3:39pm

Thank you Nesa for your attention.
But put a JPG on my website is not what I asked :)

I’m asking if it’s possible to put a Max interactive patch into my website.
I mean, when you open my webpage you should be able to interact with my Max-patch, without download it and without have MaxMSP Runtime installed in your computer.
I hope it is possible because on the server MaxMSP would be installed, so it would be an interaction between client and server… I hope :)

ps: yes, I have Jitter too (on the server I’m talkin’about)

#69389
Jan 28, 2006 at 4:30pm

Now wouldn’t that be nice!!

But before we get a Max browser plugin, I’d like to see
1. a Max timeline with pattr integration
2. JavaScript capable of running in high priority
3. a contextual menu object
4. and wealth of new graphical objects, such as a menu capable of
displaying icons instead of just text.

But everybody’s probably busy with the MacTel port.

Georg

#69390
Jan 28, 2006 at 4:49pm

And, why not, an “Undo” longer than the present one :-)

Mah, I really hoped about a max web-page. Sigh.

#69391
Jan 28, 2006 at 5:12pm

Installing the MaxMSP runtime isn’t such a terrible
chore. It’s only 4.5MB for Windows and 5.7MB for OSX.
The chores are:
– provide accurate platform requirements(sound
channels, peripherals, video capabilities, etc) and
step-by-step installation guide for each OS.
– making sure that the patch works (or fails
gracefully and informatively) for all possible
platforms, and with controllers the user has which may
be different from yours, and including every special
object used in a local folder, whether or not it’s
provided with some versions of MaxMSP and not others.
– making sure that every peripheral connection in the
patch is editable (dynamic menu, text-editable coll,
etc) because the user can’t edit the patch.
– making sure that every controlled item which is
controlled by an external controller also has a
slider, number box, dial or whatever, for users
without those peripherals.

VJs and DJs are accustomed to installing “players” for
datafiles built with a large number of applications.

If your patch is cool (and do show a JPG, MP3, and or
MPG or AVI by the way) then people will take the time
to install MaxMSP runtime to play with it and use it.

Amorphic Robot Works

#69392
Jan 28, 2006 at 5:32pm

Thank you Frank for the reply.
But, however, if client (people that want to see my webpage) has installed MaxMSP Runtime on his machine, he has to download my patch anyway if he wants to see and use it.
My question is: how can I do that my patch works on my website, without download it? Just through the browser, just with the mouse, just inside my webpage :)

#69393
Jan 28, 2006 at 5:33pm

I’m not saying you should, but you can build a server
running:
Max/MSP runtime
Apache
VNC server (with Java client enabled)
Set up the console to be logged in to a _very_
restricted account (no logout, no app open or close,
no window open or close, etc).
Apache serves the webpage containing the link to VNC’s
Java client, which loads and runs in the user’s
browser.
The VNC client shows the console running the Max/MSP
patch.
The user can click and slide things.
This allows many people to log into the same console
with only their browser, and mess with the same patch
in close to real-time, depending on your broadband
upload speed. A T1 or SDSL line is recommended. A VERY
fast computer is recommended.
Some versions of VNC offer sound streaming, though
other Javabased sound-streaming servers are also
available.
Jitter video out will likely NOT be visible to remote
users if the server’s video hardware acceleration is
on.
If the server is PC-based, then VNC servers like
UltraVNC and TightVNC can run with a video hook driver
which really speeds up screen refreshes for things
like Max patches.

This is a lot of work for a rather restricted public
view of a not-really-realtime rendition of a Max
patch.

One distinct advantage of this approach is that your
local sensors (switches, video in, etc) will be seen
by Max in local realtime, even if the user sees/hears
the changes delayed.

Just my two cents.

#69394
Jan 28, 2006 at 5:47pm

> But put a JPG on my website is not what I asked :)

ah, ok:)

that should also be possible, with jitter and flash. it would be a bit
complicated to show max/msp application interface, but you could build
custom ui in flash, send users control data to max and back. max would
stream audio back to client computer. checkout max net objects, jitter+flash
tutorials, externals for streaming(was there oggcast~ object)…

hth,
nesa

#69395
Jan 28, 2006 at 5:49pm

At this time, you can’t. Sorry.

jb

#69396
Jan 28, 2006 at 5:57pm

There is a PD (Pure Data, a long lost cousin to Max/MSP) plugin, if
you wanted to go that route.

It has some security issues, but either way, it will require someone
to download something:

either the runtime (max), or the browser plugin (pd)

most likely this will make users run screaming and shouting from your
site.

A better methodology would to be use client/server technologies like
open sound control to interface the browser to Max/MSP

IE:

A Flash based front end that sends Open Sound Control messages to a
Max/MSP ‘server’ that then interfaces with your webserver is some
way. (hopefully an interesting way)

I setup something similar with an RSS feed parser in max, which
parses images, sends to jitter, remixes them, sends them to a
jit.broadcast, and users can all play with the stream via an OSC
client which talks to the main patch on the server (that last OSC
part is still in the works), but its all technically feasible and
very straightforward.

If you want to actually *make* a webpage in max, ie: output html (ie
etc etc), id suggest you look
at jaschs objects, specifically detox, intox and toxine, which allows
you to input xml (youd be using xhtml), and format xml, and output
files. Im not sure how easy that would be in a Max context, but
making the RSS parser was much easier than I anticipated.

Id suggest you explore the options with Open Sound Control, search
the archives and search google for ‘OSC’, and ‘Open Sound Control’.
Many gems.

Good luck!

v a d e //

http://www.vade.info
abstrakt.vade.info

#69397
Jan 28, 2006 at 5:58pm

It’s already existing. Take a look at FLOSC, interactions between Flash
and Max thru OpenSoundControl, i found a bunch of examples a few time
ago. Sorry i didn’t bookmarked them but you should find them after a
while googling…

Flashserver is good for this. I made some UI with it to control Max
patches (a great thrill !) and i guess it should work the same way on a
distant computer (server)

cheers

f.e

#69398
Jan 28, 2006 at 6:01pm

Sure ? maybe i misunderstood…
But a flash movie in a web page can send data to any server (java, i
guess) , then be received by a running max who will send audio (Ali made
a working mp3 broadcast system in java) in return, right ?
Of course, you’ll have to define a max number of clients and use a poly~
solution…

f.e

#69399
Jan 28, 2006 at 6:05pm

Heh –
Then consider my suggestion “old school” and leave it
at that…
As for users “screaming and running” they tend not to
do so if a Java or Flash is involved, or they’re
relatively sophisticated users (DJs and VJs) already
accustomed to frequent installs for media playback…

#69400
Jan 28, 2006 at 6:07pm

What, never?
Well, hardly ever. How about the “Max/MSP
runtime/Apache/VNC” approach? That is Java only…

#69401
Jan 28, 2006 at 6:15pm

#69402
Jan 28, 2006 at 7:40pm

On 28 janv. 06, at 17:30, Georg Hajdu wrote:

> 2. JavaScript capable of running in high priority

yourfunction.immediate = 1 since MaxMSP 4.5.5

Best,
ej

#69403
Jan 28, 2006 at 11:36pm

#69404
Jan 28, 2006 at 11:42pm

Wonderful. My problem is that I don’t have the time to be a jack of
all trades. That’s when a community proves to be useful. So if you
have made a contextual menu object (I made one myself with standard
Max objects and scripting, which almost behaves like the real thing),
please share it with the other users.

Regards,

Georg

#69405
Jan 28, 2006 at 11:50pm

After both Nick Rothwell and I have reported stability problems with
Javascript, particularly with garbage collection, Joshua Kit Clayton
wrote:

> In general, I’d stay away from JS
> at high priority for the time being

Best regards,

Georg

#69406
Jan 30, 2006 at 9:31pm

actually that is an old request by me, either “export as html”,
or simply “save as text file to ftp adress” and “open from text
file at ftp adress”

the text format of max patches is really great for sharing, like
we do it on the mailing list for example, but for “realtime
file exchange” it is a too slow procedure sometimes.

sure, maybe it could be done using the [shell] and script
write foo [thispatcher], but “export to ftp adress” in the file
manu would be so much more sexy.

-sexy 110

#69407
Jan 31, 2006 at 5:15pm

lexein-arw@yahoo.com wrote:
> Heh –
> Then consider my suggestion “old school” and leave it
> at that…
> As for users “screaming and running” they tend not to
> do so if a Java or Flash is involved, or they’re
> relatively sophisticated users (DJs and VJs) already
> accustomed to frequent installs for media playback…

As a result of my desire to avoid flash and java, I have been working on
a library of JavaScript (in the web page javascript) user interface
elements that communicate using AJAX to a webserver which forwards the
requests over OSC to any client that can read them.

I have the stuff mostly working, but it is not thoroughly tested and
currently includes only multisliders, 2 and 1 dimensional sliders,
toggles, and bangs. If anyone has interest in playing with this or
working on it with me, let me know, and I can send you some code.

-charlie

#69408

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