Where's the sine oscillator?

Jan 21, 2007 at 3:29am

Where's the sine oscillator?

I’m new to max, can someone tell me what object/whatever is the sine oscillator? I want to use it to generate a sine wave to pass to audio speakers… just a simple sine wave, that can be synchronized to an incoming MIDI gate message, which has a pitch or frequency input that can accept input from an envelope generator, and which has an amplitude level control or input for a controller that can accept input from an envelope generator.

I looked in the manual, but jeez, it seems like everything in max is so low level dsp oriented it will take hours just to make something simple happen… or at least something that’s simple to make happen in Reaktor (I know that this is because Max is more oriented toward low level DSP, where Reaktor works using higher level building blocks (although Reaktor now does offer the ability to build low level DSP stuff inside of core cells… but blech, count me out of that if i can avoid it)).

Thanks, any help is appreciated.

#29836
Jan 21, 2007 at 3:50am

like the one found in MSP tutorial #1?

On 1/20/07, Max Planck wrote:
>
> I’m new to max, can someone tell me what object/whatever is the sine oscillator? >
> I looked in the manual, but jeez, it seems like everything in max is so low level dsp oriented it will take hours just to make something simple happen.

#93932
Jan 21, 2007 at 3:55am

cycle~ :)

On Jan 20, 2007, at 10:29 PM, Max Planck wrote:

>
> I’m new to max, can someone tell me what object/whatever is the
> sine oscillator? I want to use it to generate a sine wave to pass
> to audio speakers… just a simple sine wave, that can be
> synchronized to an incoming MIDI gate message, which has a pitch or
> frequency input that can accept input from an envelope generator,
> and which has an amplitude level control or input for a controller
> that can accept input from an envelope generator.
>
> I looked in the manual, but jeez, it seems like everything in max
> is so low level dsp oriented it will take hours just to make
> something simple happen… or at least something that’s simple to
> make happen in Reaktor (I know that this is because Max is more
> oriented toward low level DSP, where Reaktor works using higher
> level building blocks (although Reaktor now does offer the ability
> to build low level DSP stuff inside of core cells… but blech,
> count me out of that if i can avoid it)).
>
> Thanks, any help is appreciated.

v a d e //

http://www.vade.info
abstrakt.vade.info

#93933
Jan 21, 2007 at 3:59am

Not to sound like a broken record, but it’s cycle~…covered in the first MSP tutorial…

#93934
Jan 21, 2007 at 3:59am

Don’t I looke stupid… Sorry, didn’t see your post, vade.

#93935
Jan 21, 2007 at 7:44am

I highly reccomend doing all the max and msp tutorials with the included patches and PDF, and then moving on to playing with the examples before doing anything else. this might take a couple days but its well worth it and can lead to a more streamlined learning experience.

#93936
Jan 22, 2007 at 3:07pm

I thought [cycle~] was a cosine ;)

#93937
Jan 22, 2007 at 3:08pm

Isn’t [cycle~] actually a cosine? ;)

#93938
Jan 22, 2007 at 8:12pm

It is…correct me if I’m wrong. But when a simple phase shift creates (aurally) a sine, isn’t it enough to serve most purposes? For my inquiring mind, when might an oscillator producing a true sine wave be needed over cycle~? The fact that cycle~ (the “default” object for these purposes) produces cosine waves makes me wonder if I’ve just asked a really stupid question… :)

#93939
Jan 22, 2007 at 8:33pm

#93940
Jan 22, 2007 at 9:34pm

A cosine is simply a sine that is 90 degrees out of phase – a sine
starts from zero, rises to 1., then falls through zero to -1.,
finally rising back to zero – cosine simply starts from the 1. and
follows the same wave form. If you are generating continuous wave
forms it doesn’t make any difference, since where it starts is not an
issue. Where it may matter is when you are using cycle~s to control
something else, so where you are in the waveform at the moment
actually matters.

A very small investigation into some not very difficult maths will
help a lot – it’s mostly just common sense, once you have the basics,
and it will make you a lot more relaxed about all this stuff – it’s
worth doing – does someone have a really good intro to recommend?

Best

L

On 22 Jan 2007, at 20:12, Brennon wrote:

>
> It is…correct me if I’m wrong. But when a simple phase shift
> creates (aurally) a sine, isn’t it enough to serve most purposes?
> For my inquiring mind, when might an oscillator producing a true
> sine wave be needed over cycle~? The fact that cycle~ (the
> “default” object for these purposes) produces cosine waves makes me
> wonder if I’ve just asked a really stupid question… :)

Lawrence Casserley – lawrence@lcasserley.co.uk
Lawrence Electronic Operations – http://www.lcasserley.co.uk
Colourscape Music Festivals – http://www.colourscape.org.uk

#93941
Jan 22, 2007 at 10:13pm

Hi,

I could really do with reading a good math intro too :-)

P

On 22 Jan 2007, at 21:34, lawrence casserley wrote:

> A cosine is simply a sine that is 90 degrees out of phase – a sine
> starts from zero, rises to 1., then falls through zero to -1.,
> finally rising back to zero – cosine simply starts from the 1. and
> follows the same wave form. If you are generating continuous wave
> forms it doesn’t make any difference, since where it starts is not
> an issue. Where it may matter is when you are using cycle~s to
> control something else, so where you are in the waveform at the
> moment actually matters.
>
> A very small investigation into some not very difficult maths will
> help a lot – it’s mostly just common sense, once you have the
> basics, and it will make you a lot more relaxed about all this
> stuff – it’s worth doing – does someone have a really good intro to
> recommend?
>
> Best
>
> L
>
> On 22 Jan 2007, at 20:12, Brennon wrote:
>
>>
>> It is…correct me if I’m wrong. But when a simple phase shift
>> creates (aurally) a sine, isn’t it enough to serve most purposes?
>> For my inquiring mind, when might an oscillator producing a true
>> sine wave be needed over cycle~? The fact that cycle~ (the
>> “default” object for these purposes) produces cosine waves makes
>> me wonder if I’ve just asked a really stupid question… :)
>
> Lawrence Casserley – lawrence@lcasserley.co.uk
> Lawrence Electronic Operations – http://www.lcasserley.co.uk
> Colourscape Music Festivals – http://www.colourscape.org.uk
>
>

#93942
Jan 22, 2007 at 11:19pm

Although it’s a regular NYC phone book, I
find that anyone upon whom one foists “The
Computer Music Tutorial” is likely to NOT
ask any more questions for quite a long
while, and [assuming they can read and
retain] not because they’re in despair.

It covers the first N years’ worth of
questions.

Actually, it’s somewhat more likely that
the next batch of questions you get will
be a lot more difficult to answer, and
it won’t work for YOU to go to the book
to looks up the answers; the person who
asked you the question will tell you she’s
already read it. :-)

This is not the sort of thing you’d recommend
to someone who proudly tells you that they
don’t read, of course. If you have reason to
suspect that the person asking you questions
is smarter than you are [a common occurrence,
in my case], recommend Perry Cook’s book
“Real Sound Synthesis for Interactive
Applications,” It’s as good an example of an
exercise of folding intellectual space as I
know… 250 pages that open up to 3,000.

#93943
Jan 22, 2007 at 11:41pm

> I looked in the manual, but jeez, it seems like everything in max is so low level dsp oriented it will take hours just to make something simple happen… or at least something that’s simple to make happen in Reaktor.

Max isn’t Reaktor. It is a programming environment used not only for audio, but also video and a large number of other media applications. Although some objects provide a higher level of functionality than others, Max generally leaves a larger number of low-level decisions to users to provide flexibility. Although this requires the investment of time and effort on your part, the number of people who’ve used it over a number of years would suggest that such effort is likely to be repaid.

There are people out there who were once Reaktor users who
decided to teach themselves how to use Max by starting with
simple Reaktor modules, examining what their inputs and outputs
were, and re-creating them as Max abstractions they they could
save and use again. If you feel you’re competent with Reaktor,
perhaps that would be a nice project to begin once you do a few
tutorials and learn the basics.

Note: I wouldn start by trying to recreate Vokator or
something like that :-)

#93944
Jan 23, 2007 at 9:24pm

Yes Gregory – that is true!

And here on page 18 is the stuff about sine/cosine.

I am a little reluctant to put a real beginner onto it because it is
so big and daunting.

However, I agree, it is highly recommended to those who really want
to understand this stuff:

Roads, Curtis – The Computer Music Tutorial – MIT Press, 2000 – ISBN
0-262-68082-3

Just don’t let yourself be daunted by its size – it is the bible!

Best

L

On 22 Jan 2007, at 23:19, Gregory Taylor wrote:

> Although it’s a regular NYC phone book, I
> find that anyone upon whom one foists “The
> Computer Music Tutorial” is likely to NOT
> ask any more questions for quite a long
> while, and [assuming they can read and
> retain] not because they’re in despair.

Lawrence Casserley – lawrence@lcasserley.co.uk
Lawrence Electronic Operations – http://www.lcasserley.co.uk
Colourscape Music Festivals – http://www.colourscape.org.uk

#93945

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