Thomas

When I open Max and have [makenote] create some notes the very first outputs after each start up of max are not on time. 

Here is a patch with two examples that hopefully show how the first midi events are not on time.

Just to re-iterate: the behavior is only reproducible when I quit max completely, start it again and then use one of the two examples.

comment

makenote

message

noteout

print

timer

metro

toggle

Is this expected behavior? I think I can work around it by sending a couple super low velocity notes out each time I start up the patch, but I want to understand what's going on.

I am sorry if I am overlooking something completely obvious here. 

When I open Max and have [makenote] create some notes the very first outputs after each start up of max are not on time. 
Here is a patch with two examples that hopefully show how the first midi events are not on time.
Just to re-iterate: the behavior is only reproducible when I quit max completely, start it again and then use one of the two examples.

Is this expected behavior? I think I can work around it by sending a couple super low velocity notes out each time I start up the patch, but I want to understand what's going on.
I am sorry if I am overlooking something completely obvious here. 

Thanks a lot,
Thomas 

Hi everyone, 
When I open Max and have [makenote] create some notes the very first outputs after each start up of max are not on time. 
Here

-makenote-first-outputs-after-starting-max-are-always-delayed

the problem is that there is a delay turning audio on which depends on the computer environment. You can avoid this by preloading the patch with a subpatch inactive, then turn the patch active when you are ready to start using it.

Ernest and Roman, thank you very much for your answers!!

However, I am really sorry to bother you again, but I haven't quite wrapped my head around this despite your answers.

[makenote] is concerned with midi. I am on a mac (sorry that i forgot to mention that before) so the midi sounds are realized by the OS's AU DLS Synth. 

To me this seems to be independent from max's dsp-state and audio on in the audio status window. Testing seems to confirm that midi is played independently of the dsp-status and the delay persists even if I turn dsp on before using [makenote] for the first time.

Ernest, please let me know if you are not referring to the audio on in max's audio status window.

Also, I am sorry, but I am not sure what you mean by "turn the patch active", unless you are talking about audio on in the audio status menu.

Ernest and Roman, thank you very much for your answers!!
However, I am really sorry to bother you again, but I haven't quite wrapped my head around this despite your answers. 

Here is the source of my confusion: 
[makenote] is concerned with midi. I am on a mac (sorry that i forgot to mention that before) so the midi sounds are realized by the OS's AU DLS Synth. 
To me this seems to be independent from max's dsp-state and audio on in the audio status window. Testing seems to confirm that midi is played independently of the dsp-status and the delay persists even if I turn dsp on before using [makenote] for the first time. 

Ernest, please let me know if you are not referring to the audio on in max's audio status window.
Also, I am sorry, but I am not sure what you mean by "turn the patch active", unless you are talking about audio on in the audio status menu. 

in this case, the reason should be something else.

are you eventually loading a (bigger) file (like an image) from disk after the loadbang which starts the midi is performing?

in older versions of max i also have issues sometimes when the runtime is started by a patcher. (like no close button, or the patcher doesnt go in the background)

what can help is to use another little patcher to load the real one. say, like a "startup screen".

in older versions of max i also have issues sometimes when the runtime is started by a patcher. (like no close button, or the patcher doesnt go in  the background)

clicktostart.maxpatcher
myproject.maxpatcher

I can reproduce the behavior with the following (no bigger files loaded and no loadbang):

Start max -> open a new patcher -> create the following:

[message: 60] --> [makenote 100 100] --> [noteout]

when I click [message: 60] the first time, there is a noticeable lag. This also happens after waiting 10 minutes between having created the patch and clicking the message.

I am not sure I understand. I tried drag/dropped a patcher file from the finder into a patcher. This made it possible to click an object in one patcher to open the patcher in question. Very first midi output was still delayed though.

Any other ideas? Is this reproducible on other machines as well?

I can reproduce the behavior with the following (no bigger files loaded and no loadbang):
Start max -> open a new patcher -> create the following:
[message: 60] --> [makenote 100 100] --> [noteout]
when I click [message: 60] the first time, there is a noticeable lag. This also happens after waiting 10 minutes between having created the patch and clicking the message. 

in older versions of max i also have issues sometimes when the runtime is started by a patcher.

clicktostart.maxpatcher 
myproject.maxpatcher

Any other ideas? Is this reproducible on other machines as well? 

if it does that for "new patcher", too, and even with waiting time, then we need to switch to surgery.

can you check somehow if it does that for other midi devices? or if it does that for a CC as well or only for notes?

if it does that for "new patcher", too,  and even with waiting time, then we need to switch to surgery.

can you check somehow if it does that for other midi devices?  or if it does that for a CC as well or only for notes?

I dont have max8 yet, but for earlier versions, audio needed to be turned on for midi to work too.

It still takes time for a patcher to initialize. You could start by putting a delay of a second or so right after the loadbang and loadmess objects.

There is no loadbang or loadmess and I could reproduce the delay even when I waited 10 minutes between completing the patch and triggering a midi sound.

When I set the [noteout] to another port by double clicking it, e.g. from "AU DLS Synth 1" to "from Max 1" the first midi message is not (!) delayed. It seems like this is specific to "AU DLS Synth 1" and Max. 

Sibelius also uses DLSMusicDevice, but there is no lag on the first midi output.

There is no loadbang or loadmess and I could reproduce the delay even when I waited 10 minutes between completing the patch and triggering a midi sound. 

When I set the [noteout] to another port by double clicking it, e.g. from "AU DLS Synth 1" to "from Max 1" the first midi message is not (!) delayed.  It seems like this is specific to "AU DLS Synth 1" and Max. 
Sibelius also uses DLSMusicDevice, but there is no lag on the first midi output. 

Max and DSL Synth are not really big friends.

There were allways issues with that, in some max /OS version combinations

one could even not load DSL Synth at all.

You could try sending something else to DSL synth, like volume control or something

to initialise the link between max and DSL synth.

You could also try to use fluid synth in max instead ...

Max and DSL Synth are not really big friends.
There were allways issues with that, in some max /OS version combinations
one could even not load DSL Synth at all.

You could try sending something else to DSL synth, like volume control or something
to initialise the link between max and DSL synth.
Than notes would (hopefully) not lag .
You could also try to use fluid synth in max instead ...
or some other rompler as plugin.


thanks a lot. I couldn't believe that problems like having the first midi note delayed are so common, but if you say that these issues are well known, I will take your word for it.

Thanks for your and the others' advice. I finally decided to solve this the following way:

Via a [loadbang] a midi note off message (velocity of 0) is sent through an [unpack 0 0] to [noteout]. 

After that the connection between Max and DSL Synth seems to be established and everything works fine.

thanks a lot. I couldn't believe that problems like having the first midi note delayed are so common, but if you say that these issues are well known, I will take your word for it. 

Thanks for your and the others' advice. I finally decided to solve this the following way:
Via a [loadbang] a midi note off message (velocity of 0) is sent through an [unpack 0 0] to [noteout]. 
After that the connection between Max and DSL Synth seems to be established and everything works fine. 

[makenote] first outputs after starting max are always delayed