banded noise


    Mar 30 2006 | 3:14 pm
    I need to create a patch that will allow me to create tightly banded noise.
    i vaguely know the theory. I need to use two channels of noise, on in inverse phase from one another and use a tight eq on one side, which should reproduce tightly banded noise of my selected EQ width.
    can anyone help? i've said it before, i am pretty new to max/msp and dont really know which objects to use.
    if anyone has any simple patchs that they think might help, my email is
    psc.recordings@gmail.com
    cheers

    • Mar 30 2006 | 4:11 pm
      On 30-Mar-2006, at 17:14, John wrote:
      > I need to create a patch that will allow me to create tightly
      > banded noise.
      I've done work in this direction in w/Litter Power (of course).
      The current status of this particular object can be described as
      "advanced beta testing". A few people have worked with the external,
      in fact a CD has just been released using it. But there are some
      gotchas I want to iron out before unveiling it to the world.
      Still, you find some useful things the Litter Power online
      information. URI below.
      Beset -- Peter
      -------------- http://www.bek.no/~pcastine/Litter/ -------------
      Peter Castine +--> Litter Power & Litter Bundle for Jitter
      iCE: Sequencing, Recording & |home | chez nous|
      Interface Building for |bei uns | i nostri|
      Max/MSP Extremely cool http://www.castine.de
    • Mar 30 2006 | 6:25 pm
      John wrote:
      > can anyone help? i've said it before, i am pretty new to flash and
      > dont really know which objects to use.
      I don't know flash at all, but regarding Max, have a look at the
      forbidden planet in the examples folder I think. Its fun with
      (a)bandened noise...
      Stefan
      --
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      Stefan Tiedje
      Klanggestalter
      Electronic Composition
      &
      Improvisation
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    • Mar 31 2006 | 6:41 am
      which one of the beta LP is it ?
    • Mar 31 2006 | 7:26 am
      Hi,
      look at the rand~ help file...
      All the best
      Alessandro Fogar
    • Mar 31 2006 | 10:50 am
      I cnat get litter power, for i am a broke student. i can get the free one however, will this still help, do you think?
    • Mar 31 2006 | 1:40 pm
      On 31-Mar-2006, at 12:50, John wrote:
      > i can get the free one however, will this still help, do you think?
      The Starter Pack gets you brown and pink noise, triangular dithering
      noise, and an ultra-efficient 1-bit noise source is coming in the
      next release. Plus some highly useful random number generators and
      much other stuff. Of this, the signal degrader (lp.nn~) and one
      chaotic model (lp.poppy~) just might prove useful in your project.
      But maybe not as direct a help as lp.epoisse~ (coming soon) or rand~.
      On the whole, I would always recommend downloading the Starter Pack.-)
      > I cnat get litter power, for i am a broke student.
      I aimed to price Litter Pro affordably for both Starving Artists and
      Impoverished Students. It's less than $1 per external. Hope you can
      rise from broke to merely impoverished soon. (Believe me, I have been
      all of the above.)
      Maybe your school should sign up for a lab license?
      Best,
      Peter
      --
      [Please cf the .sig from my previous post on this thread if you need it]
    • Mar 31 2006 | 2:15 pm
      i know i might sound like a complete rooky (and believe me, i am) but how can i achieve what i want with these objects?
      would i simply use one noise object routed for two channels. oen with a delay line (delay~ ?) to knock it out of phase and an EG to get the band i want (object?)
      or is there a more direct method?
    • Mar 31 2006 | 2:47 pm
      >i know i might sound like a complete rooky (and believe me, i am)
      >but how can i achieve what i want with these objects?
      >
      >would i simply use one noise object routed for two channels. oen
      >with a delay line (delay~ ?) to knock it out of phase and an EG to
      >get the band i want (object?)
      >
      >or is there a more direct method?
      well i did (and do) what you describe (if I understand it well) using
      very narrow (or not so narrow, depending of the ambitus I am after)
      resonant filters
      cnmat's resonators~ work very well
      band pass filters are of course another possibility, those made by
      FFT~ are great as well (brickwall)
      is this what you need??
      kasper
      --
      Kasper T. Toeplitz
      noise, composition, bass, computer
    • Mar 31 2006 | 3:09 pm
      yes. bascially i need to create brickwall banded strips of noise, so that i can map formants from a human voice onto them.
      ideally, i want to create a system i can affect in real time
      does this fft~ require the methodology i explained above? or does it work as an accruate 'brickwall' band EQ?
    • Mar 31 2006 | 3:23 pm
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    • Mar 31 2006 | 3:44 pm
      >yes. bascially i need to create brickwall banded strips of noise, so
      >that i can map formants from a human voice onto them.
      >
      >ideally, i want to create a system i can affect in real time
      >
      >does this fft~ require the methodology i explained above? or does it
      >work as an accruate 'brickwall' band EQ?
      once you filter i don't really see the use of pahse reversal - it might be me
      but for what you describe, please, see the help files for resonators~
      (and other cnmat objects)
      kasper
    • Mar 31 2006 | 4:01 pm
      my tutor claims that to obtain a truley brickwall noice, i need to phase it out then EQ one channel, which will isolate the EQed sound and remove everything else
    • Mar 31 2006 | 6:26 pm
      On 31-Mar-2006, at 18:01, John wrote:
      > my tutor claims that to obtain a truley brickwall noice, i need to
      > phase it out then EQ one channel, which will isolate the EQed sound
      > and remove everything else
      The Fourier approach can give you as "truly" a brick wall as
      anything, but is limited to the bandwidths defined by the Fourier
      Transform bins.
      Lots of people have done this. Again, cf Forbidden Planet and play
      with that.
      The rand~ examples and lp.epoisse~ take another approach to a kind of
      frequency-banded noise. I honestly don't know if they're what you're
      after. Don't hurt none to try at least rand~.help.
      The EQ thing you're describing sounds buildable with a couple of MSP
      objects (delay~, filters of your choice, etc.).
      It's probably time to get the tools cracking and see what you can build.
      -- P.
      [Please cf the .sig from my previous post on this thread if you need it]
    • Mar 31 2006 | 7:23 pm
      Do a search for Trond Lossius' (free) externals and look at [tl.crossover4~].
      It's a crossover, so two of these in series will provide a brick-wall bandpass.
      If you can wait until tomorrow, I can post a patch I made that does it.
      Adam
    • Mar 31 2006 | 7:47 pm
      Quote: 88mph wrote on Fri, 31 March 2006 08:09
      ----------------------------------------------------
      > yes. bascially i need to create brickwall banded strips of noise, so that i can map formants from a human voice onto them.
      >
      > ideally, i want to create a system i can affect in real time
      >
      > does this fft~ require the methodology i explained above? or does it work as an accruate 'brickwall' band EQ?
      ----------------------------------------------------
      well for this job fft would not be wrong.
      opne of the examples in the example folder is
      an fft eqqualizer .. you can easily (well..)
      make up your analyzer from that.
      but forget the idea of "phaselinear brickwall
      equalizer", this job would be far too CPU
      intensive for todays computers.
      and you do not need it all all for your human
      voices experiment.
      voices will not result in big offsets (like 24 db)
      in adjacent fft bands when you use, say, 128 bands.
      what is more useful is making enough fft bands,
      like 2048 or more.
      -fft 110
    • Mar 31 2006 | 9:45 pm
      This has so far been a very interesting thread, and I've gleaned quite a lot
      of useful information from everyone's responses.
      But every time I see this subject line in my Inbox, I invariably read it as
      "Brandied Noise", which sounds oddly delicious.
      :-
    • Apr 01 2006 | 12:37 am
    • Apr 01 2006 | 3:39 am
      >
      > If you can wait until tomorrow, I can post a patch I made that does it.
      >
      > Adam
      ----------------------------------------------------
      that would be fantastic. tomorrow (well, its 4am and i've just finished work) was my day earmarked to begin drawling through all the suggestions here
      thanks to everyone so far, most enlightening thread, so proud i started it ;)
    • Apr 01 2006 | 10:00 am
      Coming back from your site, and wonder if you can say more about Chuck ?!
      f.e
    • Apr 01 2006 | 11:53 pm
      Hi,
      I guess tomorrow means tomorrow, not today. Sorry, got stuck on some other things. But by Sunday, for sure.
      However, now that I understand better what you want to do, I'm not sure my patch will do it. tl.crossover4~ isn't meant for realtime frequency shifting -- Depending on the settings, it causes some noticable audio glitches when sweeping frequencies. Also, using two of them to get a band-pass filter is cpu intensive.
      But, I'll post the patch anyway.
      Adam
    • Apr 02 2006 | 12:05 am
      I was able to post the patch and it's supporting patches:
      Requires tl.crossover4~, but Trong Lossius.
      bandpass_stereo~.mxt is the parent patch, start with that.
      Adam