Considering getting Max/MSP.....???


    Apr 10 2006 | 3:11 pm
    I've been debating for a good while whether or not I should delve into something as deep as max for sound design and music creation. After looking at some of the artist videos on this site this seems to be just what I'm looking for. I'm currently making experimental electronica. One question I do have is this....Is Max/Msp really as complicated as most people say it is?? Also...what do you guys use it for in your music?

    • Apr 10 2006 | 3:43 pm
      The concept is very simple really, it's up to the user to decide how deep to dive... You can do very complicated stuff with max, but you can also just do simple and usefull stuff. Even the help-files for the objects make cool sound ;)
      Max comes with the best tutorials in the world, so getting started is quite straight forward.
      Try out the 30 day free trial period.
    • Apr 10 2006 | 4:05 pm
      in my opinion, max has a nice gentle learning curve - you can make a lot of progress in not too much time, and the results can be pretty gratifying after only a few tutorials. the documentation is excellent, as are the forums etc, and yeah, the program is immense. to ask what i use it for is a huuuuge question. you can make pretty much anything in it - pre existing ideas like samplers etc, but with the added advantage of being able to make it have the features you've always wanted in 3rd party software. i've been learning max at university for a year now, and whilst i'm nowhere near knowing all there is, i have a good enouh grasp i can do most stuff i want, especially with support like this list.
      -- robin
    • Apr 10 2006 | 4:19 pm
      Is quite difficult find a musical situation where maxmsp is not useful. Hence, you can use it in many ways. It is a wonderful tool for real time sound generated music and images. I use often to do this, but you can also generate sounds to be mixed in another application such as ProTools. For instance, actually, I am using it to translate the images of some plasma waves electromagetic spectra into sounds to mix them together and build a classic electroacoustic work.
      From my point of view, Max/MSP is as complicated as any programming language. What can be really complicated are the procedures you must implement to achieve your musical or fine arts objectives. Signal processing topics are quite well known nowadays, but some background is needed to understand them. Anyway, a thing is true for me : MaxMSP makes easier a lot of signal processing stuff.
      Jose Manuel
      _____________ Jose Manuel Berenguer jmbeal@telefonica.net +34932857046 696538403 jmberenguer@sonoscop.net +34933064128 http://ocaos.cccb.org/jmb/index.html Sonoscop/Orquesta del Caos. CCCB. Montalegre, 5. 08001 Barcelona. Spain
    • Apr 10 2006 | 4:22 pm
      I just downloaded the demo...I'll try it out and let you guys know what I think. Thanks!!
    • Apr 10 2006 | 4:27 pm
      Would it work well with Ableton Live 5(for doing real time signal processing)? I'm going to have my first gig this summer...Do any of you use it live?(creating your whole live set with it???)
    • Apr 10 2006 | 5:17 pm
      i have done...but you have to be careful with regards to cpu. i think you can use Rewire with ableton
      -- robin
    • Apr 10 2006 | 7:37 pm
      On 10 Apr, 2006, at 17:27, Omar wrote:
      > Would it work well with Ableton Live 5(for doing real time signal > processing)? I'm going to have my first gig this summer...Do any of > you use it live?(creating your whole live set with it???) > Yes indeed - that is exactly what I use Max for most of the time, and many others do too. I don't know about working in with Live, but others have done this. For me making my own instruments in Max is the key thing, and has been for a long time. I don't like using other people's instruments; I want to make my own. And Max is really good for that, but you need to develop what it is that that you most want to do. It won't be easy, but with Max you have a chance.
      And yes, it is really easy to get started - just follow the Tutorials - the difficult bit comes when you have a clear idea of exactly what you want to do and have to develop the way to do it - but that's also part of the fun - and when you succeed you have an instrument that is only yours - and you can go on developing it and improving it - I've been doing that for years now - it's great!
      And it's what I dreamed of for twenty years or more! Wow!!
      Have fun
      L
      Lawrence Casserley - lawrence@lcasserley.co.uk Lawrence Electronic Operations - www.lcasserley.co.uk Colourscape Music Festivals - www.colourscape.org.uk
    • Apr 10 2006 | 8:12 pm
      Yes, Max and Live get along well together. Max supports the Rewire interface which allows me to send audio from Max to Live (or vice versa). If you have pluggo as well, you can save you Max patchers as VST plugins and load them in Live as well.
      Anthony
    • Apr 11 2006 | 2:21 am
      So, I'm a software engineer and I've been using Max/MSP for about 2.5 years, here's my thoughts:
      Max/MSP is general. It's not that Max is complicated, it's what you want to do that's probably complicated. In general, there seems to be a tradeoff between generality and implementation complexity. John Carmack of ID fame learned this when engineering the original castle wolfenstein 3d.
      From my experience, Max/MSP is lightyears ahead of the non-graphical alternatives. You'll spend months pouring over C audio api in order to just get a sine wave out the speakers, and it will break easily. Of course you can literally do anything in that environment, and you could probably do it with much better performance.
      My advice: once you get the basics of Max down, make sure your knobs are "big knobs". By that I mean think about what controls would make sense, and allow for interrelated parameters, and explore quantization. Then you have a bit less freedom, but you can actually get way more expressivity. Above all, keep your ideas simple and your patches will be clean. Literally every patch that's made me say woah has been a really simple idea, well executed.
      I think the general consensus is that Max/MSP is a good intellectual investment if you like noises and computers.
      Nothing good is easy.
      _Mark
    • Apr 11 2006 | 5:23 am
      Omar wrote: > One question I do have is this....Is Max/Msp really as complicated as > most people say it is??
      I'd guess "most people" don't know it ;-)
      It was never complicated for me, but can help you to solve complicated problems. But do not expect it to be easy either, as it tends to encourage you to try the impossible, which usually isn't impossible in the end...
      It is like with any instrument or skill, you have to get into it, to really understand what its about, and it will need its time to develop your skills.
      > Also...what do you guys use it for in your music?
      Literally everything, I'd even start to create editors or DAWs, if the readymade programs do not fit my needs anymore (which usually happens sooner or later), just started to get into notation... I must be crazy... Yeah, thats the danger, you might go crazy and addicted... fortunately its uncurable (I love it ;-)
      Stefan
      --
      [][] [][][] [][] [][][] [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
      Stefan Tiedje Klanggestalter Electronic Composition & Improvisation
      /~~~~~ \ /|() ()| ))))) )| | |( \ /// _/)/ ))))) ___/ ///
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    • Apr 11 2006 | 9:31 pm
      I find MAX/MSP surprisingly easy and rewarding. I've been constantly surprised that things seem to end up working well and as intended. My expectation was that I'd be struggling with it, but I haven't really. Also, there is a dedicated group of users who usually don't seem to mind helping.
      Good luck, Joel
    • Apr 11 2006 | 10:42 pm
      And, as the tutorials say, if you have a good grasp of midi, learning Max (not MSP) gets SO much easier. I had sold all my hardware samplers before getting into Max/MSP, but picked up an Akai 2800 (for cheap!) primarily for the purpose of learning Max. And I did it in that order... spent a few months learing Max, then got into MSP (and I'm grateful, things weren't as confusing as they might havve been otherwise.)
    • Apr 11 2006 | 11:27 pm
      Thanks for all the replies....I'll be ordering it on friday. Could any of post some of tracks that you've made entirely with Max/Msp? I would love to hear some of you guy's work. Thanks!
    • Apr 11 2006 | 11:43 pm
      Here's a link to a 100% Max/MSP live set I did recently, using a patch I made called "PLAB" - you could say it's my "version of Abelton Live". Except it's even more "live". The jpeg image on my website is has a shot of the patch (photo was taken with my cellphone, sorry) If the html link doesn't come through for some reason, here's the link: http://homepage.mac.com/pellucidmusic/downloads.html
    • Apr 12 2006 | 12:04 am
      Arliss...I really liked that dance party track you did...especially the way you mixed up the different vocal samples near the end. Good stuff!
    • Apr 12 2006 | 12:07 am
      I'm supposed to be collaborating with a guy I work with who plays the handdrums.....I'm really looking forward to that. Whenever that track gets finished I'll post it for you guys.
    • Apr 12 2006 | 12:17 am
      thanks, and good luck with the contribution. A heads-up though: I pretty much stopped making music for about 3 months while learning Max...lots to learn!
    • Apr 28 2006 | 6:04 am
      Just a heads up to those who care..lol...I get my copy of Max/MSP in the mail tomorrow. I'd still like to hear more of people's work using max....so post away!!
    • Apr 28 2006 | 6:17 am
      wheres a good newbie site for max/msp stuff? I wanna know if i can actually do it before i order it
    • Apr 28 2006 | 7:29 am
      u just need to download and try the demo for 30 days...
      :)
    • Apr 28 2006 | 4:03 pm
      Welcome in the family...
      Stefan
      --
      [][] [][][] [][] [][][] [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
      Stefan Tiedje Klanggestalter Electronic Composition & Improvisation
      /~~~~~ \ /|() ()| ))))) )| | |( \ /// _/)/ ))))) ___/ ///
      -------------------------x---- --_____-----------|----------- --(_|_ ----|-----|-----()---- -- _|_)----|-----()----------- ----------()------------x-----
      14, Av. Pr. Franklin Roosevelt, 94320 Thiais, France Phone at CCMIX +33-1-57 42 91 09
    • Apr 28 2006 | 10:46 pm
      I didn't get it today :( Maybe tomorrow or monday. Me a sad puppy :(
    • May 02 2006 | 11:22 pm
      I got my copy of Max/MSP in the mail today!!!!!! Just waiting on my authorization message..... :)