creating waveforms


    Jun 24 2008 | 6:24 am
    A sawtooth wave form is the representation of all integer harmonics. A square wave represents all odd numbers. Who could tell me how I could program a wave form based on prime numbers only? Also, when a sine wave can be geometrically represented as a circle, a sawtooth as a triangle and a square wave by a square. What geometry would a prime number wave take?
    What (theoritical?)wave form would a cube have to have?
    (Sorry, this is not a 10000 Dollar question...)

    • Jun 24 2008 | 7:25 am
      Quote: hans.mittendorf@free.fr wrote on Tue, 24 June 2008 08:24 ---------------------------------------------------- > A sawtooth wave form is the representation of all integer harmonics. A square wave represents all odd numbers. > Who could tell me how I could program a wave form based on prime numbers only?
      It depends on the amplitude of the partials. The easiest way to test this is to use a oscillator bank or poly~ with sinewaves. But since primes 1, 2 and 3 are going to be most influential on the sound as the lowest partials, I wouldn't have too high expectations. You could make the choice to start a higher primes.
      > Also, when a sine wave can be geometrically represented as a circle, a sawtooth as a triangle and a square wave by a square.
      Here you mix two types of representation. A circle can be constructed with a sine for the y-axis and a cosine for the x-axis.
      > What (theoritical?)wave form would a cube have to have?
      A cube is three dimensional. I don't understand the question.
      _ johan
    • Jun 24 2008 | 1:36 pm
      Hans Mittendorf schrieb: > (Sorry, this is not a 10000 Dollar question...)
      would 10 be enough?
      I came up recently with this to play around:
      -- Stefan Tiedje------------x------- --_____-----------|-------------- --(_|_ ----|-----|-----()------- -- _|_)----|-----()-------------- ----------()--------www.ccmix.com
    • Jun 24 2008 | 7:27 pm
      wow, really not bad. It makes clicks, I think it needs quantizing....
    • Jun 24 2008 | 7:35 pm
      On Jun 23, 2008, at 11:24 PM, Hans Mittendorf wrote:
      > Who could tell me how I could program a wave form based on prime > numbers only?
      I have an example, that may prove interesting, called PartialWorkshop, that I did many years ago. It allows for manipulation of the first 64 harmonics of a sound.
      -C
      Chris Muir cbm@well.com http://www.xfade.com
    • Jun 25 2008 | 8:19 am
      Hi Chris,
      that's well done!
      I made a prime number wave. It works well. When I used TestSnap it did not store the waveform in the buffer. How do I record it into buffer?
      Thanks
    • Jun 25 2008 | 11:03 am
      while we're on this subject... did anyone try to make a general solution for constructing anti-aliased waveforms? i was thinking about this the other day, and realized that it wasn't as easy as i thought..
      if anyone could share some insight, i would greatly appreciate it!
      /m
      25 jun 2008 kl. 10.19 skrev Hans Mittendorf:
      > > Hi Chris, > > that's well done! > > I made a prime number wave. It works well. When I used TestSnap it > did not store the waveform in the buffer. How do I record it into > buffer? > > Thanks
    • Jun 25 2008 | 4:30 pm
      On Jun 25, 2008, at 1:19 AM, Hans Mittendorf wrote:
      > I made a prime number wave. It works well. When I used TestSnap it > did not store the waveform in the buffer. How do I record it into > buffer?
      You should be able to record it by editing the patch to add a record~ or sfrecord~ system pretty easily. Hang it off of either the gain~ slider or the subpatcher "theSines."
      If I was making this patcher today, I would probably use the CNMAT additive stuff, FWIW.
      -C
      Chris Muir cbm@well.com http://www.xfade.com
    • Jun 25 2008 | 4:40 pm
      On Jun 25, 2008, at 4:03 AM, Mattias Petersson wrote:
      > while we're on this subject... did anyone try to make a general > solution for constructing anti-aliased waveforms? i was thinking > about this the other day, and realized that it wasn't as easy as i > thought..
      In my PartialWorkshop patch, because it's additive and each sine is controlled individually, I do a simple calculation: if the sine frequency is > 20KHz, don't play it. It's antialiasing, albeit sort of crude.
      -C
      Chris Muir cbm@well.com http://www.xfade.com
    • Jun 25 2008 | 9:17 pm
      >> hile we're on this subject... did anyone try to make a general >> solution for constructing anti-aliased waveforms? i was thinking >> about this the other day, and realized that it wasn't as easy as i >> thought.. > > > In my PartialWorkshop patch, because it's additive and each sine is > controlled individually, I do a simple calculation: if the sine > frequency is > 20KHz, don't play it. It's antialiasing, albeit sort > of crude. thanks! it's a nice patch! but as you wrote, this works because it's additive. i'm more interested in using arbitrary soundfiles or randomized data in buffers as waveforms. but i still would like to get rid of the aliasing.
      /m
    • Jun 25 2008 | 10:10 pm
      On Jun 25, 2008, at 2:17 PM, Mattias Petersson wrote: > but as you wrote, this works because it's additive. i'm more > interested in using arbitrary soundfiles or randomized data in > buffers as waveforms. but i still would like to get rid of the > aliasing.
      As far as I know, once you're in the digital domain, just about the only way to get rid of aliasing when changing the rate/pitch of audio, is through oversampling & digital filtering (fancy interpolation) in the rate change process. I don't think that you can just create anti- aliased buffers.
      -C
      Chris Muir cbm@well.com http://www.xfade.com
    • Jun 26 2008 | 8:37 pm
      Chris Muir schrieb: > As far as I know, once you're in the digital domain, just about the only > way to get rid of aliasing when changing the rate/pitch of audio, is > through oversampling & digital filtering (fancy interpolation) in the > rate change process. I don't think that you can just create anti-aliased > buffers.
      With waveforms you could create additional filtered waveforms in additional buffer. Then switch to a different buffer if you get higher in pitch... To get steep filters use fft, and zero the higher bins, then rerecord outside of the fft.
      save as fftbricks~
      save as whatever...
      -- Stefan Tiedje------------x------- --_____-----------|-------------- --(_|_ ----|-----|-----()------- -- _|_)----|-----()-------------- ----------()--------www.ccmix.com
    • Jun 27 2008 | 11:18 am
      > With waveforms you could create additional filtered waveforms in > additional buffer. Then switch to a different buffer if you get higher > in pitch... To get steep filters use fft, and zero the higher bins, > then > rerecord outside of the fft. thanks Stefan! this seems to be the best way to go for me.
      /m
    • Jun 29 2008 | 7:21 pm
      Chris, Thanks a lot for the Partial Workshop. This will no doubt be great for a relative newbie like me to study. One question has arisen for me, looking at the "Partial" subpatch. What is the advantage of running phasor~ into the phase inlet of cycle~ rather than simply running the frequency straight into cycle~ itself?
    • Jun 29 2008 | 7:48 pm
      On Jun 29, 2008, at 12:21 PM, Jay Bodley wrote: > What is the advantage of running phasor~ into the phase inlet of > cycle~ rather than simply running the frequency straight into cycle~ > itself?
      Because all the oscillators for the partials are free-running, I needed a way to sync them. Using the phasor~ allowed for this.
      I know I keep saying this, but if I was doing this patch today, I would probably be using some of the additive stuff from CNMAT, FWIW.
      -C
      Chris Muir cbm@well.com http://www.xfade.com
    • Jun 29 2008 | 7:54 pm
      And why can this not be done in the right inlet of cycle~? I am under the impression it serves the same function as phasor~'s right inlet.
    • Jun 29 2008 | 8:45 pm
      On Jun 29, 2008, at 12:54 PM, Jay Bodley wrote: > And why can this not be done in the right inlet of cycle~? I am > under the impression it serves the same function as phasor~'s right > inlet.
      I don't think that that's true:
      Chris Muir cbm@well.com http://www.xfade.com
    • Jul 16 2008 | 11:45 am
      O.K Stefan, your patch is convincing. I agree on the $10 reward! Please send me your current mail address. I also have a DVD for you.
      Do you give any inside of this approach to 3D sound away?