i've been interested in max/msp for years now since i first heard of it, i bought it a couple years ago and have tried repeately to do anything with it but i'm an idiot and haven't managed to get past the first couple tutorials before getting bored and just wanting to make music and using digital performer and reaktor or kontakt or whatever, but then i always come around to wanting to learn it again and not give up, however, unlike reaktor which you can immediately start messing around with (ensembles other people made which you can play with and or tweak or whatever) there seems to be absolutely no "instant gratification" with max and without any decent centralized user library it looks like i'll have to build everything myself, so i was wondering, do you people build everything you use to make your music in maxmsp? like a sequencer, synths, samplers, and effects? how long did it take you to get functional with it to where you could compose entire songs with it? anybody use it with a host DAW program? if so what is needed to do this? is anyone willing to hook a complete idiot up with some patches just so i can get going and be able to do anything with it? also is there any easier way to learn this program without laboring through the tutorials?