Exporting from detonate


    Jan 22 2006 | 5:51 pm
    I tried to export and re-import the attached MIDI file from and into detonate. The results were pretty surprising.
    Georg

    • Jan 24 2006 | 12:21 pm
      You seem to assume that the surprise is obvious and the same for everybody. This is a wrong assumption. Some explanation about the context is always necessary...
      In other words I have not even the slightest idea what the surprise should be and what you would expect if there where no surprise. (see bug reporting guidelines, which are not only a common sense advice for reporting bugs (in case its not a bug you want to point to.))
      Stefan
      --
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      Stefan Tiedje Klanggestalter Electronic Composition & Improvisation
      /~~~~~ \ /|() ()| ))))) )| | |( \ /// _/)/ ))))) ___/ ///
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      14, Av. Pr. Franklin Roosevelt, 94320 Thiais, France Phone at CCMIX +33-1-49 77 51 72
    • Jan 24 2006 | 3:04 pm
      There are many import/export surprises with detonate. I made several patches to demonstrate the bugs and the many variations you get with different combinations of import/export/read/write.
      On of my tests involved multitrack (32) data into detonate with a composition algorithm. Exporting and reimporting moved everything to one channel. Export/write with various arguments produced many surprises when importing to finale and sibelius including 1) putting all the tracks on one staff and 2) ignoring tracks beyond the first and putting that data on 32 staves.
      Someone at Cycling74 was looking into this but the responses dried up and I moved on to something else. I would love to use detonate because of its graphics and its ability to work with multitrack midi data but I have lots of other projects while I wait for this to be sorted out.
      Slainte, Gary Lee Nelson Oberlin College www.timara.oberlin.edu/GaryLeeNelson
    • Jan 28 2006 | 4:23 pm
      Stefan,
      Sorry for the comment, but I feel your email sounds a bit overzealous. I'm pretty sure that those guys at Cycling 74 who are doing the bug fixes know exactly what I meant. But let me rephrase it: 1. Open the attached file in detonate. 2. Save the file with the export message in MIDI file format. 3. Now reopen the new file and compare the two. 4. Do they look the same? No. Should they look the same? Yes.
      Georg
    • Jan 30 2006 | 2:07 pm
      Georg Hajdu wrote: > Stefan, > > Sorry for the comment, but I feel your email sounds a bit overzealous. > I'm pretty sure that those guys at Cycling 74 who are doing the bug > fixes know exactly what I meant. > But let me rephrase it: > 1. Open the attached file in detonate. > 2. Save the file with the export message in MIDI file format. > 3. Now reopen the new file and compare the two. > 4. Do they look the same? No. Should they look the same? Yes.
      Sorry for being overzealous, but when I opened the Midifile, the detonate contained nothing (nothing to save so to say), but the midifile would play fine with Quicktime. Thats why I was responding like that. How should I know what you'd expect without description. Its often the case that the bug I discover doesn't show up on a different computer, or as in your case shows up completely different...
      Stefan
      --
      [][] [][][] [][] [][][] [][] [][][] [][] [][][] [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
      Stefan Tiedje Klanggestalter Electronic Composition & Improvisation
      /~~~~~ \ /|() ()| ))))) )| | |( \ /// _/)/ ))))) ___/ ///
      -------------------------x--- --_____-----------|---------- --(_|_ ----|-----|-----()--- -- _|_)----|-----()---------- ----------()------------x----
      14, Av. Pr. Franklin Roosevelt, 94320 Thiais, France Phone at CCMIX +33-1-49 77 51 72
    • Jan 30 2006 | 6:01 pm
      Hi Stefan,
      I might have been a bit irritated because of the headache detonate was and is still causing me. So, I hope you don't mind my words. Now, I'm really surprised that you didn't see anything opening the file in detonate. I checked again, I don't have problems seeing the events. What's your system? I work on Mac OS X 10.4.4 with MaxMSP 4.5.6 installed.
      Georg
      On Jan 30, 2006, at 3:07 PM, Stefan Tiedje wrote:
      > the detonate contained nothing (nothing to save so to say
    • Jan 30 2006 | 8:00 pm
      MIDI files come in several formats (0, 1, 2). While Quicktime may be able to play all three, 'detonate' may be restricted to one format or the other, and this may or may not be documented. You can use a MIDI file format conversion utility to get the file into detonate. As a long-time MIDI user, I've experienced different versions of this limitation with several older MIDI sequencer boxes and software packages, so it has become second nature to pump a file through one or more conversion stages to get it into usable form one one platform or another. MIDI Formats and terse description: 0 the file contains a single multi-channel track 1 the file contains one or more simultaneous tracks (or MIDI outputs) of a sequence 2 the file contains one or more sequentially independent single-track patterns
    • Jan 30 2006 | 9:45 pm
      There may be undocumented things about the export formats with detonate but I tried all of the documented ones and each one has some problem ewlated to reimport to detonate or import to other applications - Finale and Sibelius were my targets. There is a difference between detonate's import/export and read/write commands but each has a pair of parameters that let you chose midi format as well as the interpretation of time codes. The options in the documentation meet all of my needs - or would if they actually worked.
      Slainte, Gary Lee Nelson TIMARA Department Oberlin College www.timara.oberlin.edu/GaryLeeNelson
    • Jan 31 2006 | 1:04 pm
      Did you want some of piano roll functionality in max? Because, I think at this point there are better and easier ways around using detonate.... for example, using plugmidiin>udp-write localhost inside a pluggo plugin using #synth in a pluggo script makes it possible to use a proper sequencers piano roll. all you do is put the vsti you created on whichever lane you want to pipe into max and viola. Or, atlernatively virtual midi cables work just as well... Just curious what you were trying to do or why you were working with detonate [in the first place]. Because, and this is just my opinion, it sort of seems a lost cause to even bother with that object :) ... that's just me though.
      j.
    • Jan 31 2006 | 1:16 pm
      Georg Hajdu wrote: > Hi Stefan, > > I might have been a bit irritated because of the headache detonate was > and is still causing me. So, I hope you don't mind my words. > Now, I'm really surprised that you didn't see anything opening the file > in detonate. I checked again, I don't have problems seeing the events. > What's your system? I work on Mac OS X 10.4.4 with MaxMSP 4.5.6 installed.
      The same system here, on a 12" Powerbook. Maybe some type voodoo? I had to rename it to be able to read it and named it test.mid. That would then play in Quicktime, but would not show anything in detonate. Could you repost it with proper types/extensions or maybe as a zip/sit? Then I could give it another shot.
      Stefan
      --
      [][] [][][] [][] [][][] [][] [][][] [][] [][][] [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
      Stefan Tiedje Klanggestalter Electronic Composition & Improvisation
      /~~~~~ \ /|() ()| ))))) )| | |( \ /// _/)/ ))))) ___/ ///
      -------------------------x--- --_____-----------|---------- --(_|_ ----|-----|-----()--- -- _|_)----|-----()---------- ----------()------------x----
      14, Av. Pr. Franklin Roosevelt, 94320 Thiais, France Phone at CCMIX +33-1-49 77 51 72
    • Jan 31 2006 | 3:06 pm
      On 1/31/06 8:04 AM, "bine~" wrote:
      > > Did you want some of piano roll functionality in max? Because, I think at this > point there are better and easier ways around using detonate.... for example, > using plugmidiin>udp-write localhost inside a pluggo plugin using #synth in a > pluggo script makes it possible to use a proper sequencers piano roll. all you > do is put the vsti you created on whichever lane you want to pipe into max and > viola. Or, atlernatively virtual midi cables work just as well... Just > curious what you were trying to do or why you were working with detonate [in > the first place]. Because, and this is just my opinion, it sort of seems a > lost cause to even bother with that object :) ... that's just me though. > > j. > I like this solution for several reasons. First, it seems to be a solution. Any chance you can make us a simple example? Second, it addresses the notion that a single piece of software, however rich and deep, cannot be all things to all people. Each program reflects the preoccupations of its designer(s). Designers who provide the possibilities of expansion through plugins and the like are to cream of the crop. This was not always the case. In the early days, designers of hardware synths and software were a very paternal lot. The very first thing I want to know about Max back in 1990 was "can I write my own externals?"
      Slainte, Gary Lee Nelson TIMARA Department Oberlin College www.timara.oberlin.edu/GaryLeeNelson
    • Jan 31 2006 | 3:25 pm
      okey, here I go... may the great 8 legged goat guardian protect me...
      =====pluggo plugin=====
      =====patch for receiving osc data=====
      =====required abstraction "osc_read"=====
      _____pluggoscript externals_______ _.mxe opensoundcontrol.mxe udp-write.mxe
      IE
      open thispatcher include E:/maxmsp/__path__/externals/jasch_objects/_.mxe include E:/maxmsp/__path__/externals/CNMAT/opensoundcontrol.mxe include E:/maxmsp/__path__/externals/CNMAT/udp-write.mxe
      or whereever those are in your path....
      so, here how it should be....
      1.compile the plugin first off 2.insert as a synth in your sequencer 3.choose which "channel" via the slider, keep it at 1 for now 4.loop a midi part on the timeline 5.open up the receiver patch 6.piano roll info should be coming in on "receive mid_1"
      lemme know if that works for you. j.
    • Jan 31 2006 | 3:57 pm
      shite, I just noticed you can attach files.... makes sense.... doh. Okay, well all that junk I just put above can be downloaded via attached, that is to say attached actually works being as such I am trying it for the first time now.
    • Jan 31 2006 | 3:57 pm
      bah, fuck it, I don't see where my zip went anywhere! =/
    • Jan 31 2006 | 4:03 pm
      Using Max for almost 16 years, I have gotten used to working around certain idiosyncrasies. Nonetheless, I believe that an object offering basic MIDI functionality such as MIDI import and export should be well maintained.
      Georg
    • Jan 31 2006 | 4:08 pm
      Hrm yeah, I guess. I don't know, I have only been using max for 2-3 years and to me, I guess being as such that detonate doesn't really seem to "do it to well" is no accident. I think its a bit too much of a "musical" primitive for my/MAXs' likings... But yeah, its there and should work, did you try my alternative? I know I've spent a lot of time messing about with detonate and I've never been particulary thrilled with its functionality as a piano roll/sequencer. Versus a program like Nuendo, it almost seems like a rather ridiculous object.
    • Jan 31 2006 | 4:46 pm
      I apologise for the amount of time it is taking to get this object working correctly - please be assured that we are working on it and an update will be forthcoming. Thank you for your patience....
      Cheers
      Andrew
    • Jan 31 2006 | 4:59 pm
      Hi Bine~,
      On Jan 31, 2006, at 5:08 PM, bine~ wrote:
      > > Hrm yeah, I guess. I don't know, I have only been using max for 2-3 > years and to me, I guess being as such that detonate doesn't really > seem to "do it to well" is no accident. I think its a bit too much > of a "musical" primitive for my/MAXs' likings...
      I don't quite agree with you on that. Detonate only offers a visual paradigm for manipulating list of lists, albeit with MIDI import and export.
      > But yeah, its there and should work, did you try my alternative? I > know I've spent a lot of time messing about with detonate and I've > never been particulary thrilled with its functionality as a piano > roll/sequencer. Versus a program like Nuendo, it almost seems like > a rather ridiculous object.
      I'm used to making a fuss on this list, when things are broken, and that's probably one of the reasons why the timeline object is actually still usable. Ask David Z. I'm optimistic that my strategy might also work in this case ;-))
      Thank you anyway for your excellent work; I'll have a closer look once I can find a bit more time.
      Georg
    • Jan 31 2006 | 5:01 pm
      Here we go...
      Thanks, Andrew!!
      Georg