Exporting from detonate


    Jan 22 2006 | 5:51 pm
    I tried to export and re-import the attached MIDI file from and into
    detonate. The results were pretty surprising.
    Georg

    • Jan 24 2006 | 12:21 pm
      You seem to assume that the surprise is obvious and the same for everybody.
      This is a wrong assumption. Some explanation about the context is always
      necessary...
      In other words I have not even the slightest idea what the surprise
      should be and what you would expect if there where no surprise.
      (see bug reporting guidelines, which are not only a common sense advice
      for reporting bugs (in case its not a bug you want to point to.))
      Stefan
      --
      [][] [][][] [][] [][][] [][] [][][] [][] [][][]
      [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
      Stefan Tiedje
      Klanggestalter
      Electronic Composition
      &
      Improvisation
      /~~~~~
      \ /|() ()|
      ))))) )| | |( \
      /// _/)/ )))))
      ___/ ///
      -------------------------x---
      --_____-----------|----------
      --(_|_ ----|-----|-----()---
      -- _|_)----|-----()----------
      ----------()------------x----
      14, Av. Pr. Franklin Roosevelt, 94320 Thiais, France
      Phone at CCMIX +33-1-49 77 51 72
    • Jan 24 2006 | 3:04 pm
      There are many import/export surprises with detonate. I made several
      patches to demonstrate the bugs and the many variations you get with
      different combinations of import/export/read/write.
      On of my tests involved multitrack (32) data into detonate with a
      composition algorithm. Exporting and reimporting moved everything to one
      channel. Export/write with various arguments produced many surprises when
      importing to finale and sibelius including 1) putting all the tracks on one
      staff and 2) ignoring tracks beyond the first and putting that data on 32
      staves.
      Someone at Cycling74 was looking into this but the responses dried up and I
      moved on to something else. I would love to use detonate because of its
      graphics and its ability to work with multitrack midi data but I have lots
      of other projects while I wait for this to be sorted out.
      Slainte,
      Gary Lee Nelson
      Oberlin College
      www.timara.oberlin.edu/GaryLeeNelson
    • Jan 28 2006 | 4:23 pm
      Stefan,
      Sorry for the comment, but I feel your email sounds a bit overzealous.
      I'm pretty sure that those guys at Cycling 74 who are doing the bug
      fixes know exactly what I meant.
      But let me rephrase it:
      1. Open the attached file in detonate.
      2. Save the file with the export message in MIDI file format.
      3. Now reopen the new file and compare the two.
      4. Do they look the same? No. Should they look the same? Yes.
      Georg
    • Jan 30 2006 | 2:07 pm
      Georg Hajdu wrote:
      > Stefan,
      >
      > Sorry for the comment, but I feel your email sounds a bit overzealous.
      > I'm pretty sure that those guys at Cycling 74 who are doing the bug
      > fixes know exactly what I meant.
      > But let me rephrase it:
      > 1. Open the attached file in detonate.
      > 2. Save the file with the export message in MIDI file format.
      > 3. Now reopen the new file and compare the two.
      > 4. Do they look the same? No. Should they look the same? Yes.
      Sorry for being overzealous, but when I opened the Midifile, the
      detonate contained nothing (nothing to save so to say), but the midifile
      would play fine with Quicktime. Thats why I was responding like that.
      How should I know what you'd expect without description. Its often the
      case that the bug I discover doesn't show up on a different computer, or
      as in your case shows up completely different...
      Stefan
      --
      [][] [][][] [][] [][][] [][] [][][] [][] [][][]
      [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
      Stefan Tiedje
      Klanggestalter
      Electronic Composition
      &
      Improvisation
      /~~~~~
      \ /|() ()|
      ))))) )| | |( \
      /// _/)/ )))))
      ___/ ///
      -------------------------x---
      --_____-----------|----------
      --(_|_ ----|-----|-----()---
      -- _|_)----|-----()----------
      ----------()------------x----
      14, Av. Pr. Franklin Roosevelt, 94320 Thiais, France
      Phone at CCMIX +33-1-49 77 51 72
    • Jan 30 2006 | 6:01 pm
      Hi Stefan,
      I might have been a bit irritated because of the headache detonate
      was and is still causing me. So, I hope you don't mind my words.
      Now, I'm really surprised that you didn't see anything opening the
      file in detonate. I checked again, I don't have problems seeing the
      events. What's your system? I work on Mac OS X 10.4.4 with MaxMSP
      4.5.6 installed.
      Georg
      On Jan 30, 2006, at 3:07 PM, Stefan Tiedje wrote:
      > the detonate contained nothing (nothing to save so to say
    • Jan 30 2006 | 8:00 pm
      MIDI files come in several formats (0, 1, 2). While
      Quicktime may be able to play all three, 'detonate'
      may be restricted to one format or the other, and this
      may or may not be documented. You can use a MIDI file
      format conversion utility to get the file into
      detonate.
      As a long-time MIDI user, I've experienced different
      versions of this limitation with several older MIDI
      sequencer boxes and software packages, so it has
      become second nature to pump a file through one or
      more conversion stages to get it into usable form one
      one platform or another.
      MIDI Formats and terse description:
      0 the file contains a single
      multi-channel track
      1 the file contains one or more
      simultaneous tracks (or MIDI outputs) of a sequence
      2 the file contains one or more
      sequentially independent single-track patterns
      see
    • Jan 30 2006 | 9:45 pm
      There may be undocumented things about the export formats with detonate but
      I tried all of the documented ones and each one has some problem ewlated to
      reimport to detonate or import to other applications - Finale and Sibelius
      were my targets. There is a difference between detonate's import/export and
      read/write commands but each has a pair of parameters that let you chose
      midi format as well as the interpretation of time codes. The options in the
      documentation meet all of my needs - or would if they actually worked.
      Slainte,
      Gary Lee Nelson
      TIMARA Department
      Oberlin College
      www.timara.oberlin.edu/GaryLeeNelson
    • Jan 31 2006 | 1:04 pm
      Did you want some of piano roll functionality in max? Because, I think at this point there are better and easier ways around using detonate.... for example, using plugmidiin>udp-write localhost inside a pluggo plugin using #synth in a pluggo script makes it possible to use a proper sequencers piano roll. all you do is put the vsti you created on whichever lane you want to pipe into max and viola. Or, atlernatively virtual midi cables work just as well... Just curious what you were trying to do or why you were working with detonate [in the first place]. Because, and this is just my opinion, it sort of seems a lost cause to even bother with that object :) ... that's just me though.
      j.
    • Jan 31 2006 | 1:16 pm
      Georg Hajdu wrote:
      > Hi Stefan,
      >
      > I might have been a bit irritated because of the headache detonate was
      > and is still causing me. So, I hope you don't mind my words.
      > Now, I'm really surprised that you didn't see anything opening the file
      > in detonate. I checked again, I don't have problems seeing the events.
      > What's your system? I work on Mac OS X 10.4.4 with MaxMSP 4.5.6 installed.
      The same system here, on a 12" Powerbook. Maybe some type voodoo? I had
      to rename it to be able to read it and named it test.mid. That would
      then play in Quicktime, but would not show anything in detonate.
      Could you repost it with proper types/extensions or maybe as a zip/sit?
      Then I could give it another shot.
      Stefan
      --
      [][] [][][] [][] [][][] [][] [][][] [][] [][][]
      [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
      Stefan Tiedje
      Klanggestalter
      Electronic Composition
      &
      Improvisation
      /~~~~~
      \ /|() ()|
      ))))) )| | |( \
      /// _/)/ )))))
      ___/ ///
      -------------------------x---
      --_____-----------|----------
      --(_|_ ----|-----|-----()---
      -- _|_)----|-----()----------
      ----------()------------x----
      14, Av. Pr. Franklin Roosevelt, 94320 Thiais, France
      Phone at CCMIX +33-1-49 77 51 72
    • Jan 31 2006 | 3:06 pm
      On 1/31/06 8:04 AM, "bine~" wrote:
      >
      > Did you want some of piano roll functionality in max? Because, I think at this
      > point there are better and easier ways around using detonate.... for example,
      > using plugmidiin>udp-write localhost inside a pluggo plugin using #synth in a
      > pluggo script makes it possible to use a proper sequencers piano roll. all you
      > do is put the vsti you created on whichever lane you want to pipe into max and
      > viola. Or, atlernatively virtual midi cables work just as well... Just
      > curious what you were trying to do or why you were working with detonate [in
      > the first place]. Because, and this is just my opinion, it sort of seems a
      > lost cause to even bother with that object :) ... that's just me though.
      >
      > j.
      >
      I like this solution for several reasons. First, it seems to be a solution.
      Any chance you can make us a simple example? Second, it addresses the
      notion that a single piece of software, however rich and deep, cannot be all
      things to all people. Each program reflects the preoccupations of its
      designer(s). Designers who provide the possibilities of expansion through
      plugins and the like are to cream of the crop. This was not always the
      case. In the early days, designers of hardware synths and software were a
      very paternal lot. The very first thing I want to know about Max back in
      1990 was "can I write my own externals?"
      Slainte,
      Gary Lee Nelson
      TIMARA Department
      Oberlin College
      www.timara.oberlin.edu/GaryLeeNelson
    • Jan 31 2006 | 3:25 pm
      okey, here I go... may the great 8 legged goat guardian protect me...
      =====pluggo plugin=====
      max v2;
      =====patch for receiving osc data=====
      max v2;
      =====required abstraction "osc_read"=====
      max v2;
      _____pluggoscript externals_______
      _.mxe
      opensoundcontrol.mxe
      udp-write.mxe
      IE
      open thispatcher
      include E:/maxmsp/__path__/externals/jasch_objects/_.mxe
      include E:/maxmsp/__path__/externals/CNMAT/opensoundcontrol.mxe
      include E:/maxmsp/__path__/externals/CNMAT/udp-write.mxe
      or whereever those are in your path....
      so, here how it should be....
      1.compile the plugin first off
      2.insert as a synth in your sequencer
      3.choose which "channel" via the slider, keep it at 1 for now
      4.loop a midi part on the timeline
      5.open up the receiver patch
      6.piano roll info should be coming in on "receive mid_1"
      lemme know if that works for you.
      j.
    • Jan 31 2006 | 3:57 pm
      shite, I just noticed you can attach files.... makes sense.... doh. Okay, well all that junk I just put above can be downloaded via attached, that is to say attached actually works being as such I am trying it for the first time now.
    • Jan 31 2006 | 3:57 pm
      bah, fuck it, I don't see where my zip went anywhere! =/
    • Jan 31 2006 | 4:03 pm
      Using Max for almost 16 years, I have gotten used to working around
      certain idiosyncrasies. Nonetheless, I believe that an object
      offering basic MIDI functionality such as MIDI import and export
      should be well maintained.
      Georg
    • Jan 31 2006 | 4:08 pm
      Hrm yeah, I guess. I don't know, I have only been using max for 2-3 years and to me, I guess being as such that detonate doesn't really seem to "do it to well" is no accident. I think its a bit too much of a "musical" primitive for my/MAXs' likings... But yeah, its there and should work, did you try my alternative? I know I've spent a lot of time messing about with detonate and I've never been particulary thrilled with its functionality as a piano roll/sequencer. Versus a program like Nuendo, it almost seems like a rather ridiculous object.
    • Jan 31 2006 | 4:46 pm
      I apologise for the amount of time it is taking to get this object working correctly - please be assured that we are working on it and an update will be forthcoming. Thank you for your patience....
      Cheers
      Andrew
    • Jan 31 2006 | 4:59 pm
      Hi Bine~,
      On Jan 31, 2006, at 5:08 PM, bine~ wrote:
      >
      > Hrm yeah, I guess. I don't know, I have only been using max for 2-3
      > years and to me, I guess being as such that detonate doesn't really
      > seem to "do it to well" is no accident. I think its a bit too much
      > of a "musical" primitive for my/MAXs' likings...
      I don't quite agree with you on that. Detonate only offers a visual
      paradigm for manipulating list of lists, albeit with MIDI import and
      export.
      > But yeah, its there and should work, did you try my alternative? I
      > know I've spent a lot of time messing about with detonate and I've
      > never been particulary thrilled with its functionality as a piano
      > roll/sequencer. Versus a program like Nuendo, it almost seems like
      > a rather ridiculous object.
      I'm used to making a fuss on this list, when things are broken, and
      that's probably one of the reasons why the timeline object is
      actually still usable. Ask David Z. I'm optimistic that my strategy
      might also work in this case ;-))
      Thank you anyway for your excellent work; I'll have a closer look
      once I can find a bit more time.
      Georg
    • Jan 31 2006 | 5:01 pm
      Here we go...
      Thanks, Andrew!!
      Georg