HD into jitter


    Aug 17 2006 | 12:12 am
    I just wanted to follow up on the thread regarding HD input into
    Jitter. Previously I had mentioned that HDV input wasn't possible and
    DVCProHD was possible with the FCP installed QT input component on
    Macintosh.
    Regarding DVCProHD, upon further scrutiny, we noticed only ~10fps as
    output via the QT input component provided with FCP regardless of the
    framerate the patch was capable of regardless of the vmode used.
    Regarding HDV, as is known, there's no QT supplied input component.
    However, both of these problems should be possible to overcome by
    using an input board such as the Kona LHe or BlackMagic DeckLink HD
    (allegedly with better quality than either the DVCProHD or HDV codecs
    if your camera ouputs the original frame rather than the compressed
    frame decompressed again).
    For many cameras you will only be able to take analog HD output, but
    if your device supports HD-SDI (like the new Canon HDV camera does)
    you can get an uncompressed digital signal. Still the analog HD
    output from cameras such as the HVX200, despite any additional analog
    noise issues, is allegedly better quality than the compressed
    DVCProHD images.
    These cards aren't exactly cheap ($1000-$2000), and they require a
    desktop machine with the appropriate variant of PCI slot, but they
    should provide the best (and most CPU efficient) way to get HD
    footage into jit.qt.grab (and jit.dx.grab for cards with a Direct X
    input component). I might try to get my hands on the Kona LHe
    sometime in the next year, but If anyone else has any experience to
    report on the use of these cards with HD input into jitter, please
    share your results.
    For those of you looking to avoid this PCI card based solution, If we
    discover any way to make the DVCProHD QT input component deliver more
    frames per second, or a third party HDV Direct X or QT input
    component we'll let you know.
    Thanks,
    Joshua

    • Aug 17 2006 | 12:54 am
      To add to this. I got a hold of a camera from Imaging Source with the
      following specs:
      1024 x 768 YUV (4:2:2) @ 15, 7.5, 3.75 fps
      1024 x 768 Y (Mono) @ 30, 15, 7.5, 3.75 fps
      I'm using it in 1024 x 768 YUV mode and on a dual 2G G5 with a Radeon
      9800 I can do a bit of computer vision work and quite a number of
      slabs and still maintain a high framerate. It works with no extra
      drivers. Since this worked without a problem, I'd imagine their other
      cameras would work as well.
      Here's the link:
      wes
    • Aug 17 2006 | 1:21 am
      On Aug 16, 2006, at 5:54 PM, Wesley Smith wrote:
      > To add to this. I got a hold of a camera from Imaging Source
      Out of curiosity, has anyone used the point grey cameras which tout
      1024x768 in color @30fps like the flea2?
      -Joshua
    • Aug 17 2006 | 1:22 pm
      I currently have access to a bunch of systems with Kona 3, Kona LH
      and Decklink cards, and a whole machine room of HD decks, and format
      converters. Is there anything in particular you want me to test? I
      could possibly do some fiddling this evening when the editors have left.
      I havent seen of any issues, but im curious if there are any known
      incompatibilities of installing the version of Interlok with 4.6 on
      systems with Avid, Final Cut, etc.
      Im curious myself...
      v a d e //
      www.vade.info
      abstrakt.vade.info
      On Aug 16, 2006, at 9:21 PM, Joshua Kit Clayton wrote:
      >
      > On Aug 16, 2006, at 5:54 PM, Wesley Smith wrote:
      >
      >> To add to this. I got a hold of a camera from Imaging Source
      >
      > Out of curiosity, has anyone used the point grey cameras which tout
      > 1024x768 in color @30fps like the flea2?
      >
      > http://www.ptgrey.com/products/flea2/index.asp
      >
      > -Joshua
    • Aug 17 2006 | 3:29 pm
      I worked with a Kona LHe card on a g5 a few months ago. I was doing
      live compositing of 1080i video and was easily geting 30fps (working
      on the gpu). The setup was simple and showed up as an input device
      right away.
      > I might try to get my hands on the Kona LHe
      > sometime in the next year, but If anyone else has any experience to
      > report on the use of these cards with HD input into jitter, please
      > share your results.
    • Aug 17 2006 | 5:17 pm
      As I've recently had to work with a lot of HDV footage, I can offer
      one alternative solution... although it is not oriented towards
      realtime capture... it's a cheap alternative to expensive capture cards.
      There is an excellent shareware app called 'MPEG Streamclip' that can
      transcode any form of MPEG including HDV variants (even the nefarious
      raw .m2t transport streams) It requires Apple's MPEG2 Playback codec
      is installed for it to work. ($20 from Apple)
      With Streamclip you can transcode to something other than Apple's
      Intermediate codec, (anything QT) such as photojpeg, animation or
      uncompressed, which should playback much better within JItter. The
      Mac version is UB and there is also a WindowsXP version.
      -- deKam
      > For those of you looking to avoid this PCI card based solution, If
      > we discover any way to make the DVCProHD QT input component deliver
      > more frames per second, or a third party HDV Direct X or QT input
      > component we'll let you know.
      >
      > Thanks,
      > Joshua
      >
      >
    • Aug 21 2007 | 3:07 am
      As this post is now a year old I thought I would revisit it and ask if there has been any updates on getting HD into Jitter using a QT component or any software based solution?
      Joshua is the situation still as you described it in 2005:
      "Quicktime does not support HDV input as a QT video input
      device. It is only Apple proprietary software (iMovie, FCP, etc.)
      which can grab from this device"
      I'm very interested to hear any new developments.
      Cheers.
    • Aug 21 2007 | 3:23 am
      Good news:
      http://createdigitalmotion.com/2007/05/08/real-time-uncompressed-hd-
      mixing-on-the-cheap-with-decklink-intensity/#more-1683
      :)
      On Aug 20, 2007, at 11:07 PM, darcysays wrote:
      >
      > As this post is now a year old I thought I would revisit it and ask
      > if there has been any updates on getting HD into Jitter using a QT
      > component or any software based solution?
      >
      > Joshua is the situation still as you described it in 2005:
      >
      > "Quicktime does not support HDV input as a QT video input
      > device. It is only Apple proprietary software (iMovie, FCP, etc.)
      > which can grab from this device"
      >
      > http://www.cycling74.com/forums/index.php?t=msg&goto=54562
      >
      > I'm very interested to hear any new developments.
      >
      > Cheers.
      v a d e //
      www.vade.info
      abstrakt.vade.info
    • Aug 21 2007 | 3:38 am
      Thanks for the reply.
      Looks good!
      But for us notebook users it sounds like a software only solution is not yet available?
    • Aug 21 2007 | 3:49 am
      if you want to spend the cash, you could get an AJA IO-HD (should
      work, their prior QT drivers worked in Jitter), or, get a Magma PCI-E
      -> Expresscard adaptor. the HD Intensity is only a 1x card.
      or, use a DVCProHD deck/camera via FW. But no HDV QT components for
      capture in other apps AFAIK.
      On Aug 20, 2007, at 11:38 PM, darcysays wrote:
      >
      > Thanks for the reply.
      > Looks good!
      >
      > But for us notebook users it sounds like a software only solution
      > is not yet available?
      v a d e //
      www.vade.info
      abstrakt.vade.info
    • Aug 21 2007 | 5:26 am
      On Aug 20, 2007, at 8:07 PM, darcysays wrote:
      > As this post is now a year old I thought I would revisit it and ask
      > if there has been any updates on getting HD into Jitter using a QT
      > component or any software based solution?
      >
      > Joshua is the situation still as you described it in 2005:
      >
      > "Quicktime does not support HDV input as a QT video input
      > device. It is only Apple proprietary software (iMovie, FCP, etc.)
      > which can grab from this device"
      Yes, as you've already heard from Anton, the situation is the same
      (you'll have better luck talking to Apple or some third party rather
      than us, since we're *definitely* not going to write an HDV driver).
      If purchasing an HDV camera, I would suggest getting one with HDMI
      output and using something like the Intensity card suggested by
      Anton. Won't help you on a laptop though, but I suppose there's
      always more expensive options out there if you really need to find a
      solution (might also consider uncompressed high resolution IIDC
      cameras, such as those sold by imagingsource.com or ptgrey.com which
      might suit your purposes).
      -Joshua
    • Aug 21 2007 | 5:52 am
      Joshua - those Point Grey cameras look particularly interesting, and
      i had not seen/heard of them before. Has anyone done any work with
      them with jitter ? I dont see any mention of OS X compatibility...
      Anyone got them working?
      Quite Curious -
      BTW- welcome back (?) Joshua - if not, GET BACK TO WORK !@#!@# :)
      On Aug 21, 2007, at 1:26 AM, Joshua Kit Clayton wrote:
      >
      > On Aug 20, 2007, at 8:07 PM, darcysays wrote:
      >
      >> As this post is now a year old I thought I would revisit it and
      >> ask if there has been any updates on getting HD into Jitter using
      >> a QT component or any software based solution?
      >>
      >> Joshua is the situation still as you described it in 2005:
      >>
      >> "Quicktime does not support HDV input as a QT video input
      >> device. It is only Apple proprietary software (iMovie, FCP, etc.)
      >> which can grab from this device"
      >
      > Yes, as you've already heard from Anton, the situation is the same
      > (you'll have better luck talking to Apple or some third party
      > rather than us, since we're *definitely* not going to write an HDV
      > driver). If purchasing an HDV camera, I would suggest getting one
      > with HDMI output and using something like the Intensity card
      > suggested by Anton. Won't help you on a laptop though, but I
      > suppose there's always more expensive options out there if you
      > really need to find a solution (might also consider uncompressed
      > high resolution IIDC cameras, such as those sold by
      > imagingsource.com or ptgrey.com which might suit your purposes).
      >
      > -Joshua
      v a d e //
      www.vade.info
      abstrakt.vade.info
    • Aug 21 2007 | 6:00 am
      Too bad they use Bayer filters.
      wes
      On 8/20/07, vade wrote:
      > Joshua - those Point Grey cameras look particularly interesting, and i had
      > not seen/heard of them before. Has anyone done any work with them with
      > jitter ? I dont see any mention of OS X compatibility... Anyone got them
      > working?
      >
      > Quite Curious -
      >
      > BTW- welcome back (?) Joshua - if not, GET BACK TO WORK !@#!@# :)
      >
      >
      > On Aug 21, 2007, at 1:26 AM, Joshua Kit Clayton wrote:
      >
      >
      > On Aug 20, 2007, at 8:07 PM, darcysays wrote:
      >
      >
      > As this post is now a year old I thought I would revisit it and ask if there
      > has been any updates on getting HD into Jitter using a QT component or any
      > software based solution?
      >
      > Joshua is the situation still as you described it in 2005:
      >
      > "Quicktime does not support HDV input as a QT video input
      > device. It is only Apple proprietary software (iMovie, FCP, etc.)
      > which can grab from this device"
      >
      > Yes, as you've already heard from Anton, the situation is the same (you'll
      > have better luck talking to Apple or some third party rather than us, since
      > we're *definitely* not going to write an HDV driver). If purchasing an HDV
      > camera, I would suggest getting one with HDMI output and using something
      > like the Intensity card suggested by Anton. Won't help you on a laptop
      > though, but I suppose there's always more expensive options out there if you
      > really need to find a solution (might also consider uncompressed high
      > resolution IIDC cameras, such as those sold by imagingsource.com or
      > ptgrey.com which might suit your purposes).
      >
      > -Joshua
      >
      > v a d e //
      >
      > www.vade.info
      > abstrakt.vade.info
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Aug 21 2007 | 8:37 pm
      FWIW, the newest MacBook Pro (and iMacs too, I think) have built-in
      1280x1024 iSight cams. I'm curious to know if Apple is going to release
      a standalone version with similar capabilities. Either way, it's pretty
      rad for a little built-in feature and not very noisy either.
      AB
    • Aug 21 2007 | 8:54 pm
      i got me a pixelink ( http://www.pixelink.com/products_info.asp?id=68 )
      beauty that i was able to use with jit.dx.grab. but cant adjust any
      settings other native 1280 x 1024@27fps . shame about that. as "the camera
      can deliver up to 33 fps at 1k x 1k resolution, up to 107 fps at VGA
      resolution (640 x 480) and up to 8000 fps at 724 x 8, all with
      user-definable region of interest (ROI)"
      i don't know if this is related, but it would be neat to get those iidc
      settings control on windows like there is on the mac side...
      any chance?
      On 8/21/07, Andrew Benson wrote:
      >
      > FWIW, the newest MacBook Pro (and iMacs too, I think) have built-in
      > 1280x1024 iSight cams. I'm curious to know if Apple is going to release
      > a standalone version with similar capabilities. Either way, it's pretty
      > rad for a little built-in feature and not very noisy either.
      >
      > AB
      >
    • Aug 27 2007 | 8:16 pm
      On Aug 20, 2007, at 10:26 PM, Joshua Kit Clayton wrote:
      > If purchasing an HDV camera, I would suggest getting one with HDMI
      > output and using something like the Intensity card suggested by
      > Anton. Won't help you on a laptop though, but I suppose there's
      > always more expensive options out there if you really need to find
      > a solution.
      Here's one forthcoming more expensive option ~3000-3500USD. Requires
      FW800 port on your MacBookPro, however, but has some other nice
      features as compared with the Intensity card, though might make more
      sense to just buy and tote around a MacPro instead.
      Another potentially useful announcement for cameras without HDMI
      output, is that the new Intesity Pro card has analog component video
      input. Not 100% sure that these component inputs support HD, but
      perhaps worth looking into for people with a desktop machine and an
      HD camera with analog, but not digital output. This card is 10x cheaper.
      -Joshua
    • Aug 27 2007 | 11:07 pm
      On Aug 27, 2007, at 1:16 PM, Joshua Kit Clayton wrote:
      > Another potentially useful announcement for cameras without HDMI
      > output, is that the new Intesity Pro card has analog component
      > video input. Not 100% sure that these component inputs support HD,
      > but perhaps worth looking into for people with a desktop machine
      > and an HD camera with analog, but not digital output. This card is
      > 10x cheaper.
      >
      FWIW, looks like they do support HD component analog. From the user
      manual:
      Analog connections
      Intensity Pro includes analog video and audio connections for capture
      and playback from analog
      equipment. Capture from VHS or DVD players via the NTSC/PAL input, or
      switch to analog Y,Cr,Cb
      for capture in high quality component video in SD or HD.
      -Joshua
    • Aug 28 2007 | 1:43 am
      The issue with the AJA IO HD is that you cannot get uncompressed HD
      into your system (this is from AJA themselves - bandwidth constraints
      of the FW bus). Its converted to Pro Res 4:2:2 on the AJA IO and has
      to be decoded on the CPU side to uncompressed for display. Pro Res is
      optimized for decompression vs compression, so the hardware
      accelerated engine on the IO can keep up with a realtime 1080 stream,
      otherwise you need a beefy system for CPU side HD encoding.. I am not
      certain it will work with Jitter 100%, due to the Pro Res encoding
      situation.
      However, Im fortunate enough to work with a company who is getting
      one of the first NYC shipments :) Might be able to get some time on
      it. and try it out on my Macbook Pro.
      Im happy to report back :)
      On Aug 27, 2007, at 4:16 PM, Joshua Kit Clayton wrote:
      >
      > On Aug 20, 2007, at 10:26 PM, Joshua Kit Clayton wrote:
      >> If purchasing an HDV camera, I would suggest getting one with HDMI
      >> output and using something like the Intensity card suggested by
      >> Anton. Won't help you on a laptop though, but I suppose there's
      >> always more expensive options out there if you really need to find
      >> a solution.
      >
      > Here's one forthcoming more expensive option ~3000-3500USD.
      > Requires FW800 port on your MacBookPro, however, but has some other
      > nice features as compared with the Intensity card, though might
      > make more sense to just buy and tote around a MacPro instead.
      >
      > http://www.aja.com/html/products_Io.html
      >
      > Another potentially useful announcement for cameras without HDMI
      > output, is that the new Intesity Pro card has analog component
      > video input. Not 100% sure that these component inputs support HD,
      > but perhaps worth looking into for people with a desktop machine
      > and an HD camera with analog, but not digital output. This card is
      > 10x cheaper.
      >
      > http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/
      >
      v a d e //
      www.vade.info
      abstrakt.vade.info
    • Apr 30 2010 | 9:45 am
      Hello all,
      i just ran into this problem that capturing HDV with Jitter was not possible. Do you know what is the best solution right now? We´re going to buy new camera for around 4000$ with additional card-hardware for capturing. Do you know a nice combo for jitter HD Capturing?
      many thx,
      florian
    • Jan 09 2011 | 2:39 am
      Decklink SDI