How to sync Live (via rewire~) to an external midi clock?


    Feb 22 2006 | 6:08 pm
    I use Ableton Live inside max (rewire) ; With rewire~, I can send tempo /
    start / stop messages to Live, but I need to sync it to an external midi
    clock (coming from an external device -> rtin)
    Is there a way to send to Live the midi clock sync directly with the midi
    message?
    (rtin -> prepend midi -> rewire~ = "error: rewire~: midi: argument error")
    What would be the right midi message?
    If it's not possible this way, do I have to convert the midi clock sync to
    tempo / position messages to rewire~? How...
    When Live is a rewire slave, it's midi inputs are disabled, so I can't send
    it midi messages directly...
    I of course searched in the mail archive, lot of things about syncing max to
    live with rewire, but not in this way...
    (I have to do it in windows, so don't tell me to use jack or soundflower !)
    Thanks in advance
    Mathieu Chamagne
    www.maxobjects.com

    • Mar 01 2006 | 11:24 am
      As I had no reply to my first post last week... I ask again!
      I need to use Ableton Live inside max (rewire~) and I want to sync it to an
      external MIDI clock.
      Here is my problem :
      With rewire~, I can send Start/stop/tempo/position messages to Live, but I
      can't see how to sync it to a Midi clock. I tried to send the midi clock
      with the "midi" message to rewire~, but it doesn't seems to work (or I don't
      know how to format this message correctly...).
      Any help is welcome...
      Mathieu Chamagne
      www.maxobjects.com
    • Mar 10 2006 | 4:30 pm
      I already ask this 2 times... and no replies.
      Does it mean that it's a really stupid question, or does really nobody can answer ?
      Ok, I try a third (& last) time :
      I need to use Ableton Live inside max (rewire~) and I want to sync it to an
      external MIDI clock.
      Here is my problem :
      With rewire~, I can send Start/stop/tempo/position messages to Live, but I
      can't see how to sync it to an external Midi clock. I tried to send the midi clock with the "midi" message to rewire~, but it doesn't seems to work (or I don't know how to format this message correctly...).
      Any help is welcome...
      Mathieu Chamagne
      www.maxobjects.com
    • Mar 10 2006 | 5:47 pm
      Hey Mathieu,
      here are some ideas: I'd use rtin -> sync~ and see if the (float) bpm
      info from sync~'s middle outlet is accurate enough for syncing (strip
      the bpm and send to rewire~ with 'tempo $1'). You should get the
      start/stop messages with 'sel 250 252' directly from rtin. If this
      doesn't work you could try detecting the beginning of a bar from the
      signal outlet of sync~ with >~ and edge~ (or by counting midi ticks),
      and send a position message to rewire~. You would need to calculate how
      many samples are in a bar at the current bpm and count how many bars
      have already played. Haven't tried any of this ... Good luck, g.
    • Mar 10 2006 | 6:12 pm
      Thanks for your reply, Georg.
      I already tried the sync~ -> bpm -> tempo -> rewire~ solution, but it's not
      accurate enough. (I want to be able to follow fast tempo changes and start /
      stop messages... sync~ doesn't react very well and sometime takes a couple
      of beats to output the right tempo after a change).
      In fact, I need to know if it's possible or not to send a midi message to
      rewire~ containing a midi clock. If it's not possible that way, I will have
      to deal with tempo / position messages...
      I just hoped that could be easier. Midi clock is a simple and robust sync ;
      It would be too bad to not be able to use it directly with rewire~.
      Thanks
      Mathieu
    • Mar 10 2006 | 8:42 pm
      Dear Mathieu, please explain me if you have some particular reason to use Live inside Max ,..i work with my max patches "inside" Live, receiving reliable and solid timing from it using hostsync~ and ad_rewire driver..and then sync Live to any external device via midi..
    • Mar 10 2006 | 9:06 pm
      Because with max "inside Live" (ad_rewire driver) adc~ is disabled.
      With rewire, as far as I know, audio can only go in one way : from client to
      host. So in your configuration, you can't process an external audio source
      in max, and you can't send audio from live to max.
      Am I wrong ?
      MathieU
    • Mar 11 2006 | 11:40 am
      you are right :(
    • Jan 13 2008 | 9:24 pm
      Hi Mathieu,
      I only just saw your post
      You can sync Live using a pitch bend message from Max/MSP
      If this is useful write back to me at
      andrew.robertson@elec.qmul.ac.uk
      Also, I have a question for you.
      Can you sync Live by sending a Midi Clock message from Max.
      I've always used my pitchbend method with Ableton's Midi map, but for various reasons want to check out other ways too.
      If you're interested, check out
      youtube.com/bkeepersystem
      for some of the work
      Regards,
      Andrew
    • Jan 14 2008 | 4:47 pm
      I am very interested in this as well. If it is not proprietary
      knowledge, could you please share with us as well?
      I am sure others in the future may want to know this.
    • Jan 14 2008 | 9:30 pm
      Hi,
      I discovered a nice way to do this thanks to Mitch Turner who posted on this forum. He posted the following patch which you send on midiout "from Max/MSP 1 (or 2)"
      In Live you must make sure you are set to recieve Midi Clock - i.e. from Max/MSP 1 is set sync ON in Midi preferences.
      Then activate external switch by switching EXT on in Live's main control bar.
      So here's the patch in Max:
      max v2;
      And if people are interested in how to sync live using Midi pitchbend, let me know or search previous messages here.
      Cheers,
      Andrew
    • Jun 07 2011 | 9:05 pm
      i am so glad that i found this patch! thankyou so much. its ancient - but still works well. i couldnt figure out why my midiout was not working - now i understand that the midi clock message is 258! mine was sending out 'midi'!
      thanks!