PhiDjee

For some musical instruments (starting with guitar and bass, later for the string quartet if something works), I need a multi-sensor to instruct a Max patcher through a USB port and powered by this USB port about which string has just been picked.

Like an multiphonic magnetic or piezzo pickup.

For some musical instruments (starting with guitar and bass, later for the string quartet if something works), I need a multi-sensor to instruct a Max patcher through a USB port and powered by this USB port about which string has just been picked.
Like an multiphonic magnetic or piezzo pickup.
Could it be an infra-red based item... ?
From which manufacturer?

looking-for-specific-sensor

u can find it at cheaper prices on ebay, nowadays

Il giorno 09/feb/07, alle ore 08:22, Philippe Gruchet ha scritto:

> For some musical instruments (starting with guitar and bass, later 

> for the string quartet if something works), I need a multi-sensor 

> to instruct a Max patcher through a USB port and powered by this 

> USB port about which string has just been picked.

> Like an multiphonic magnetic or piezzo pickup.

> Could it be an infra-red based item... ?

well i've got an old yamaha g50
that does it perfectly.
u can find it at cheaper prices on ebay, nowadays

>
> Hi Max fans ;-)
>
> For some musical instruments (starting with guitar and bass, later  
> for the string quartet if something works), I need a multi-sensor  
> to instruct a Max patcher through a USB port and powered by this  
> USB port about which string has just been picked.
> Like an multiphonic magnetic or piezzo pickup.
> Could it be an infra-red based item... ?
>> From which manufacturer?
>
> All insights welcome, please!
>
> Warmest regards,
> Philippe
>
>
>


I have all this audio stuff, Axon and co.

What I'm looking for is not an audio hardware, but just a digital 0/1 output from a multi-sensor, one per string, and going to MaxMSP. Then, those integers will be used to gate and route.

(or just like a bang-out from a sensor each time a string is picked.)

Maybe this sensor doesn't exist and will need a custom design for my purpose... ?

Thanks!
I have all this audio stuff, Axon and co.
What I'm looking for is not an audio hardware, but just a digital 0/1 output from a multi-sensor, one per string, and going to MaxMSP. Then, those integers will be used to gate and route.
(or just like a bang-out from a sensor each time a string is picked.)

Maybe this sensor doesn't exist and will need a custom design for my purpose... ?
Philippe


> For some musical instruments (starting with guitar and bass,

> later for the string quartet if something works), I need a

> multi-sensor to instruct a Max patcher through a USB port and

> powered by this USB port about which string has just been picked.

I just remember the infrared sensor of the first Photon MIDI interface for guitar. Could it be based on something like that?

> For some musical instruments (starting with guitar and bass,
> later for the string quartet if something works), I need a
> multi-sensor to instruct a Max patcher through a USB port and
> powered by this USB port about which string has just been picked.
> Could it be an infra-red based item... ?
> From which manufacturer?

It seems to me that if you already have pickups or other per-string audio sensors, then that is the easiest thing to do, because beyond that, the cheapest and easiest thing probably is something to detect the vibration of the string like a simple piezo. You could set an amplitude threshold in Max for your gate. I'm sure something could be done with proximity sensors, but you would probably get the most accurate results by simply detecting the string vibration.

I suppose a flex sensor could be attached to each string...?

It seems to me that if you already have pickups or other per-string audio sensors, then that is the easiest thing to do, because beyond that, the cheapest and easiest thing probably is something to detect the vibration of the string like a simple piezo.  You could set an amplitude threshold in Max for your gate.  I'm sure something could be done with proximity sensors, but you would probably get the most accurate results by simply detecting the string vibration.

Quote: tim_thompson@mac.com wrote on Fri, 09 February 2007 13:43

----------------------------------------------------

> I suppose a flex sensor could be attached to each string...?

Yes, that's a great idea, thanks! Could also work for violin, cello, etc.

Needing an extra piece of hardware to convert the signal into digital data or directly into MIDI data.

(Very closed to a Roland GK pickup but unusable for bowed instruments.)

So, for a six strings instrument, 6 sensors to 1 converter, 1 digital output to MaxMSP via USB.

Quote: tim_thompson@mac.com wrote on Fri, 09 February 2007 13:43
----------------------------------------------------
> I suppose a flex sensor could be attached to each string...?

Yes, that's a great idea, thanks! Could also work for violin, cello, etc.
Needing an extra piece of hardware to convert the signal into digital data or directly into MIDI data.
(Very closed to a Roland GK pickup but unusable for bowed instruments.)

(Banging the Paia drum again, if you'll forgive the pun):

http://paia.com/proddetail.asp?prod=9201DK

Nice cheap way to convert to Midi, and there's a useful link to a page on

sensors; all you need then is Midi/USB, though power might be a problem if

you need something to mount on the instrument,

On 9/2/07 13:30, "Philippe Gruchet" wrote:

> Quote: tim_thompson@mac.com wrote on Fri, 09 February 2007 13:43

> ----------------------------------------------------

>> I suppose a flex sensor could be attached to each string...?

> Yes, that's a great idea, thanks! Could also work for violin, cello, etc.

> Needing an extra piece of hardware to convert the signal into digital data or

> (Very closed to a Roland GK pickup but unusable for bowed instruments.)

> So, for a six strings instrument, 6 sensors to 1 converter, 1 digital output

(Banging the Paia drum again, if you'll forgive the pun):
http://paia.com/proddetail.asp?prod=9201DK
 Nice cheap way to convert to Midi, and there's a useful link to a page on
sensors; all you need then is Midi/USB, though power might be a problem if
you need something to mount on the instrument,
Cheers
Roger

On 9/2/07 13:30, "Philippe Gruchet"  wrote:

>
> Quote: tim_thompson@mac.com wrote on Fri, 09 February 2007 13:43
> ----------------------------------------------------
>> I suppose a flex sensor could be attached to each string...?
>
> Hi Tim,
>
> Yes, that's a great idea, thanks! Could also work for violin, cello, etc.
> Needing an extra piece of hardware to convert the signal into digital data or
> directly into MIDI data.
> (Very closed to a Roland GK pickup but unusable for bowed instruments.)
>
> So, for a six strings instrument, 6 sensors to 1 converter, 1 digital output
> to MaxMSP via USB.
>
> Something like that could work?
>
>
> Best,
> Philippe

Quote: roger.carruthers wrote on Fri, 09 February 2007 15:26

>(Banging the Paia drum again, if you'll forgive the pun):

And it sounds great, in the literal sense of the term!

> Nice cheap way to convert to Midi, and there's a useful link to 

> a page on sensors; all you need then is Midi/USB, though power 

> might be a problem if you need something to mount on the

The sensor(s) only will have to be put on the instrument.

Thank you very much Roger for this address that I didn't know!

I'll look into their stuff... after a good lunch ;-)

Quote: roger.carruthers wrote on Fri, 09 February 2007 15:26
----------------------------------------------------
>(Banging the Paia drum again, if you'll forgive the pun):

:-)
And it sounds great, in the literal sense of the term!

> http://paia.com/proddetail.asp?prod=9201DK
> Nice cheap way to convert to Midi, and there's a useful link to 
> a page on sensors; all you need then is Midi/USB, though power 
> might be a problem if you need something to mount on the
> instrument

Thank you very much Roger for this address that I didn't know!
I'll look into their stuff... after a good lunch ;-)

> For some musical instruments (starting with guitar and bass, later

> for the string quartet if something works), I need a multi-sensor to

> instruct a Max patcher through a USB port and powered by this USB

> port about which string has just been picked. Like an multiphonic

The roland GK pickups (only for guitar/bass I am afraid) can hook up to 

a pitch to midi converter, or can be split to be analyzed within Max.

If you're thinking about (semi)acoustic guitars, there are these Godin 

guitars, which have also multichannel pickups compatible with the Roland 

Philippe Gruchet wrote:
> Hi Max fans ;-)
>
> For some musical instruments (starting with guitar and bass, later
> for the string quartet if something works), I need a multi-sensor to
> instruct a Max patcher through a USB port and powered by this USB
> port about which string has just been picked. Like an multiphonic
> magnetic or piezzo pickup.

The roland GK pickups (only for guitar/bass I am afraid) can hook up to 
a pitch to midi converter, or can be split to be analyzed within Max.
If you're thinking about (semi)acoustic guitars, there are these Godin 
guitars, which have also multichannel pickups compatible with the Roland 
system...

-- 
Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
--_____-----------|--------------
--(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
-- _|_)----|-----()--------------
----------()--------www.ccmix.com


>>For some musical instruments (starting with guitar and bass, later

>>for the string quartet if something works), I need a multi-sensor to

>>instruct a Max patcher through a USB port and powered by this USB

>>port about which string has just been picked. Like an multiphonic

I never actually did it, but always thought about fixing a small 

on classical instruments (cello, violin..) you could hook up piezos 

between the tailpiece and bridge... not sure if this would work 

>Philippe Gruchet wrote:
>>Hi Max fans ;-)
>>
>>For some musical instruments (starting with guitar and bass, later
>>for the string quartet if something works), I need a multi-sensor to
>>instruct a Max patcher through a USB port and powered by this USB
>>port about which string has just been picked. Like an multiphonic
>>magnetic or piezzo pickup.

I never actually did it, but always thought about fixing a small 
web-cam on my bass.......

on classical instruments (cello, violin..) you could hook up piezos 
between the tailpiece and bridge... not sure if this would work 
(what's more witha bow.....)

kasper
-- 
  Kasper T. Toeplitz
noise, composition, bass, computer
http://www.sleazeArt.com

Subject: Re: [maxmsp] Looking for specific sensor

-----Original Message-----
From: Kasper T Toeplitz 
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 21:41:08 
Subject: Re: [maxmsp] Looking for specific sensor

Quote: Stefan Tiedje wrote on Fri, 09 February 2007 19:49

> > For some musical instruments, I need a multi-sensor to

> > instruct a Max patcher through a USB port and powered

> > by this USB port about which string has just been picked.

> The roland GK pickups (only for guitar/bass I am afraid) can 

> hook up to a pitch to midi converter, or can be split to be 

Yes, a Roland, Yamaha, Blue Chip or TerraTac hexaphonic magnetic pickup through a GI-20 or an Axon interface work very fine.

The challenge is to reduce at maximum the hardware involved.

Thus, I imagined one little electronic mounted on the instrument and connected to MaxMSP via USB.

> If you're thinking about (semi)acoustic 

> guitars, there are these Godin guitars, which have also 

> multichannel pickups compatible with the Roland system...

I own one of them. (the fretless guitar, of course;-)

But the project is for a string quartet. (Fretless too :-)

Quote: Stefan Tiedje wrote on Fri, 09 February 2007 19:49
----------------------------------------------------
> > For some musical instruments, I need a multi-sensor to
> > instruct a Max patcher through a USB port and powered
> > by this USB port about which string has just been picked.
>
> The roland GK pickups (only for guitar/bass I am afraid) can 
> hook up to a pitch to midi converter, or can be split to be 
> analyzed within Max.

Yes, a Roland, Yamaha, Blue Chip or TerraTac hexaphonic magnetic pickup through a GI-20 or an Axon interface work very fine.
The challenge is to reduce at maximum the hardware involved.
Thus, I imagined one little electronic mounted on the instrument and connected to MaxMSP via USB.

> If you're thinking about (semi)acoustic 
> guitars, there are these Godin guitars, which have also  
> multichannel pickups compatible with the Roland system...

I own one of them. (the fretless guitar, of course;-)
But the project is for a string quartet. (Fretless too :-)

Quote: Kasper T Toeplitz wrote on Fri, 09 February 2007 21:41

>> For some musical instruments (starting with guitar and bass, 

>> later for the string quartet if something works), I need a 

>> multi-sensor to instruct a Max patcher through a USB port and 

>> powered by this USB port about which string has just been

> I never actually did it, but always thought about fixing a small 

> web-cam on my bass....... could be an idea...

Yes, this works very fine for motion detection. I did that with an iSight (30 frames/s) bringing a lot of amazing possibilities. And a lot of fun!

> on classical instruments (cello, violin..) you could hook up 

> piezos between the tailpiece and bridge... not sure if this 

> would work (what's more witha bow.....)

Since piezos are pressure sensors, I don't really understand where to put them... ?

Unless using a bridge with built-in piezos like Zeta violins.

A piezo built as guitar pick works well (aka, alien-picks ;-) too.

(Pat Metheny used that to fine-control his Synclavier.)

But those possibilities don't target my simple goal: not pitch, just picked or bowed (or pizz, slapped, tapped, etc.) string detection.

Quote: Kasper T Toeplitz wrote on Fri, 09 February 2007 21:41
----------------------------------------------------
>> For some musical instruments (starting with guitar and bass, 
>> later for the string quartet if something works), I need a 
>> multi-sensor to instruct a Max patcher through a USB port and 
>> powered by this USB port about which string has just been
>> picked.
----------------------------------------------------
Hi Kasper,

> I never actually did it, but always thought about fixing a small 
> web-cam on my bass....... could be an idea...

> on classical instruments (cello, violin..) you could hook up 
> piezos between the tailpiece and bridge... not sure if this 
> would work (what's more witha bow.....)

Since piezos are pressure sensors, I don't really understand where to put them... ?
Unless using a bridge with built-in piezos like Zeta violins.
A piezo built as guitar pick works well (aka, alien-picks ;-) too.
(Pat Metheny used that to fine-control his Synclavier.)

>But those possibilities don't target my simple goal: not pitch, just 

>picked or bowed (or pizz, slapped, tapped, etc.) string detection.

sorry, maybe i was wrong about the name of the sensor - maybe it is not piezo

what i thought about would be to fix something similar to the weight 

which is on some cellos/violins, which prevent the "wolf tones"....

when you play (pluck) a string which you "fret", you have 2 notes, 

both sides of teh fret/finger - both sides of the string vibrate - 

same with a bridge - both sides of the string (pre/post bridge) 

vibrate (that's 3 notes when i think about it !!)

I thought taht a sensor capturing THIS vibration would/could work...

>
>But those possibilities don't target my simple goal: not pitch, just 
>picked or bowed (or pizz, slapped, tapped, etc.) string detection.
>

what i thought about would be to fix something similar to the weight 
which is on some cellos/violins, which prevent the "wolf tones"....

when you play (pluck) a string which you "fret", you have 2 notes, 
both sides of teh fret/finger - both sides of the string vibrate - 
same with a bridge - both sides of the string (pre/post bridge) 
vibrate (that's 3 notes when i think about it !!)

Kasper T Toeplitz wrote on Sat, 10 February 2007 14:34

> what i thought about would be to fix something similar

> to the weight which is on some cellos/violins, which 

Ah yes, a kind of 'tailpiece-mute'. Great idea too!

> when you play (pluck) a string which you "fret", you have 2 

> notes, both sides of the fret/finger - both sides of the string 

> vibrate -same with a bridge - both sides of the string (pre/

> post bridge) vibrate (that's 3 notes when i think about it !!)

There's also a little 'ping' above the head-nut = 4 possible bangs per string.

Thank you very much, I didn't think about this.

> I suppose a flex sensor could be attached to each string

While reading the previous posts, I was just thinking about calling Marc next week :-)

If I remember, he did some custom tools for you, isn't it?

Kasper T Toeplitz wrote on Sat, 10 February 2007 14:34
----------------------------------------------------
> what i thought about would be to fix something similar
> to the weight which is on some cellos/violins, which 
> prevent the "wolf tones"....

> when you play (pluck) a string which you "fret", you have 2 
> notes, both sides of the fret/finger - both sides of the string  
> vibrate -same with a bridge - both sides of the string (pre/
> post bridge) vibrate (that's 3 notes when i think about it !!)

There's also a little 'ping' above the head-nut = 4 possible bangs per string.
Thank you very much, I didn't think about this.

Tim Thompson wrote:
> I suppose a flex sensor could be attached to each string

While reading the previous posts, I was just thinking about calling Marc next week :-)
If I remember, he did some custom tools for you, isn't it?

The idea of any kind of vibration sensor (piezo, regular pickup, etc) is that you don't have to use it to detect frequency or a precise amplitude. It is still effective for simple triggering because it will tell you if the string is vibrating or not! The downside to flex sensors is that they would have to be physically attached to strings somewhere between the bridge and the tailpiece...I don't know how many violinists would go for that. But it does seem like an interesting possibility. Also, it may be prone to false positives from all sorts of motion. I especially think of a violinist squeezing the strings toward the fingerboard, but not playing.

Let us know how it all works! I'm curious.

The idea of any kind of vibration sensor (piezo, regular pickup, etc) is that you don't have to use it to detect frequency or a precise amplitude.  It is still effective for simple triggering because it will tell you if the string is vibrating or not!  The downside to flex sensors is that they would have to be physically attached to strings somewhere between the bridge and the tailpiece...I don't know how many violinists would go for that.  But it does seem like an interesting possibility.  Also, it may be prone to false positives from all sorts of motion.  I especially think of a violinist squeezing the strings toward the fingerboard, but not playing.

Let us know how it all works!  I'm curious.

>While reading the previous posts, I was just thinking about calling 

>If I remember, he did some custom tools for you, isn't it?

sure he did - and i even hope he is currently working on some more!!!

>
>>  why not try to ask MESI about it???
>
>While reading the previous posts, I was just thinking about calling 
>Marc next week :-)
>If I remember, he did some custom tools for you, isn't it?
>

> The idea of any kind of vibration sensor (piezo, regular pickup, 

> etc) is that you don't have to use it to detect frequency or a 

> precise amplitude. It is still effective for simple triggering 

> because it will tell you if the string is vibrating or not!

Otherwise, I'd use a pack of Axon MIDI converters.

> The downside to flex sensors is that they would have to be 

> physically attached to strings somewhere between the bridge and the 

> tailpiece...I don't know how many violinists would go for that.

When putting a mic on the violin of jazz musicians, meaning a large 

place to play for a large audience, they like that ;-)

> But it does seem like an interesting possibility. Also, it may be 

> prone to false positives from all sorts of motion. I especially 

> think of a violinist squeezing the strings toward the fingerboard, 

Yes! Back there to the programming side with several kind of noise- 

It also depends of the project. Noises could be interesting when 

controlling a sonic spatialization, for example.

> Let us know how it all works! I'm curious.

I hope all will work, and I'm curious too ;-)

Thank you very much for your encouragement!

Tim Thompson wrote:
----------------------------------------------------
> The idea of any kind of vibration sensor (piezo, regular pickup,  
> etc) is that you don't have to use it to detect frequency or a  
> precise amplitude.  It is still effective for simple triggering  
> because it will tell you if the string is vibrating or not!

Yes! And that's just what I need!
Otherwise, I'd use a pack of Axon MIDI converters.

> The downside to flex sensors is that they would have to be  
> physically attached to strings somewhere between the bridge and the  
> tailpiece...I don't know how many violinists would go for that.

Well, it could depends of the music.
When putting a mic on the violin of jazz musicians, meaning a large  
place to play for a large audience, they like that ;-)

> But it does seem like an interesting possibility.  Also, it may be  
> prone to false positives from all sorts of motion.  I especially  
> think of a violinist squeezing the strings toward the fingerboard,  
> but not playing.

Yes! Back there to the programming side with several kind of noise- 
gates.
It also depends of the project. Noises could be interesting when  
controlling a sonic spatialization, for example.

> Let us know how it all works!  I'm curious.

Thank you very much for your encouragement!
Philippe


>> The idea of any kind of vibration sensor (piezo, regular pickup, etc) 

>> is that you don't have to use it to detect frequency or a precise 

>> amplitude. It is still effective for simple triggering because it 

>> will tell you if the string is vibrating or not!

> Otherwise, I'd use a pack of Axon MIDI converters.