"Max for Live"?


    Jan 15 2009 | 8:34 am
    Interview with the CEO of Ableton:
    I really hope this is what it seems like.

    • Jan 15 2009 | 10:13 am
      That's what I want:
      [Moderator's note: I changed this inline patch into an attachment so one didn't have to scroll all the way down the screen to read the next message.]
    • Jan 15 2009 | 10:38 am
      The press conference is today at 10am Pacific Time. Stay tuned...
      jb
    • Jan 15 2009 | 11:38 am
      Quote: Jeremy Bernstein wrote on Thu, 15 January 2009 03:38 ---------------------------------------------------- > The press conference is today at 10am Pacific Time. Stay tuned... > > jb ----------------------------------------------------
      sure will! sounds like i ll finally be able to integrate my monome and controllers with live 100% like i want m too :)
    • Jan 15 2009 | 3:07 pm
      Is it possible to watch this live?
    • Jan 15 2009 | 4:22 pm
      Well, I have to admit. That would be pretty bad ass... Up to this point I didn't have much reason to get live. Being able to load patcher files in Live would be fantastic!
    • Jan 15 2009 | 5:28 pm
      Sorry, my info was bad. The press conference is at _11am_, not 10. And I don't think there's a live stream. I suspect it will be quickly edited and posted to the Ableton site afterwards, though.
      jb
    • Jan 15 2009 | 5:37 pm
    • Jan 15 2009 | 5:40 pm
      Ach you people are killing me! I have to work to do!
    • Jan 15 2009 | 6:04 pm
      srsly! I don't know if i can take another hour of this!
    • Jan 15 2009 | 6:52 pm
      c74 homepage updated: https://cycling74.com/
    • Jan 15 2009 | 7:04 pm
      It's seldom something turns out exactly the way you imagined it. Cheers to the folks at C74 for all your hard work!
      My big question:
      Is Max for Live just a bridge between Max and Live? In other words do you have to own Max and Live for Max for Live to work or will it be like a "mini-Max" inside Live?
    • Jan 15 2009 | 7:10 pm
      Hmmmm interesting. It sounds like a great improvement for Live users, basically the ability to customize and create devices. But how does that benefit me the Max user? Will I be able to load my patcher made in Max5 as a device in Live8? The press release does not clarify this.
    • Jan 15 2009 | 7:45 pm
      Quote: Anthony Palomba wrote on Thu, 15 January 2009 12:10 ---------------------------------------------------- > Hmmmm interesting. It sounds like a great improvement for Live > users, basically the ability to customize and create devices. > But how does that benefit me the Max user? Will I be able to > load my patcher made in Max5 as a device in Live8? The press > release does not clarify this. ----------------------------------------------------
      That's exactly what you can do, with edit-in-place too.
      This is AWESOME.
    • Jan 15 2009 | 7:50 pm
      opnions of awesomeness seconded.
      this seem sto be very very serious business indeed.
      I will only know for sure how perfect it is for me after being able to have a proper test run, but atm both programs are highly useful for me, and to have an intelligent dialogue between the 2. well, it looks like it's gonna be all kinds of beautiful.
    • Jan 15 2009 | 8:05 pm
      No, the info released does not say you can open Max5 patches in Live. It says you can create devices with the objects that come with "Max for Live" and customize those. It sounds like "Max for Live" is a subset of Max5.
      You Cycling folk feel free to correct me. I hope I am wrong because such a thing would be my timeline dreams come true...
    • Jan 15 2009 | 8:17 pm
      I hope you can use other UI object than the once that are "Live" objects. Especially the stuff like the matrix object, which I believe there is no substitute for in the Live enviroment.
    • Jan 15 2009 | 8:20 pm
      Quote: Veqtor wrote on Thu, 15 January 2009 14:17 ---------------------------------------------------- > I hope you can use other UI object than the once that are "Live" objects. Especially the stuff like the matrix object, which I believe there is no substitute for in the Live enviroment. ----------------------------------------------------
      The preview shows the default Max knob being used in a Live device so it seems like you can.
    • Jan 15 2009 | 8:22 pm
      this is absolutely fantastic! my integration of live, max and hardware controllers is about to make a huge leap...
      check http://www.ableton.com/extend for info (the guy in the video is so hilariously german :D)
      too bad it takes both payed upgrades for live 8 + the max for live add-on. would have been neat if it was free to people who own max already.
      Quote:
      Attention Max users!
      The equation works both ways: If you already own Max, Max for Live provides straightforward tools for controlling Live from your Max environment. Maybe you want to exploit Live's timeline, or work some magic with the Session View—it's up to you. If you own Max 5, this will be your editing environment when you open up a Max for Live device. Please note, though, that Max for Live doesn't include a version of Live.
    • Jan 15 2009 | 8:24 pm
      Also, I hope that you can lock Max for Live objects, so that people will be developing advanced devices that can be sold to Live users, even if they don't own Max for Live...
    • Jan 15 2009 | 8:39 pm
      this will solve all world problems!
      jezus i thought the fact i learned max/msp was my answer to life but this will keep me going for the next 6!
    • Jan 15 2009 | 8:46 pm
      This looks great. I wonder if we can use custom externals in Live? That would be incredible.
    • Jan 15 2009 | 8:50 pm
      I really hope this isnt being prioritised over Pluggo for MAX5...
    • Jan 15 2009 | 8:50 pm
      Huzzah!
      Congrats and Thanks to all involved! My two favorite pieces of music software are now married in the most harmonious of ways!
      I have been working on alot of pluggos and control interfaces in max for use in/with live and I am so excited to adapt them.
      Can't wait to hear more about object support and of course try it out.
      Wow.
    • Jan 15 2009 | 9:37 pm
      i'm sure it's early to ask this, however, is i'm a live user interesting in MAx for Live is there are reason i should upgrade my old max license to max 5, or should i just save my money and use it to buy Max for Live?
      what do i get for upgrading to Live 8 and MAx for Live and Max 5?
    • Jan 15 2009 | 9:54 pm
      I have to say, this is probably the biggest news for electronic musicians I've heard in a long time. I cannot even begin to say how excited I am for this.
      What I'm really interested to know is if there will also be Jitter functionality, so that we can also turn Live into the ultimate VJ device...
    • Jan 15 2009 | 10:06 pm
      Robert Henke of Ableton said "Max = MaxMSP/Jitter" in the recent discussions on their forum. Subject to change, I reckon, but that's my guess too - my rig would be f*cked without it, and I'm no VJ...
      Andreas --
      Michael Hetrick skrev: > I have to say, this is probably the biggest news for electronic musicians I've heard in a long time. I cannot even begin to say how excited I am for this. > > What I'm really interested to know is if there will also be Jitter functionality, so that we can also turn Live into the ultimate VJ device... >
    • Jan 16 2009 | 12:44 am
      This will change things from "everyone is a DJ" to "everyone is a max programmer". The world is about to get a lot more fun.
    • Jan 16 2009 | 12:49 am
      i also want to know what the deal is re: money
      if i own max 5 already does that mean i can automatically use max inside of live 8?
    • Jan 16 2009 | 12:56 am
      Quote: James Drake wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 00:49 ---------------------------------------------------- > i also want to know what the deal is re: money > > if i own max 5 already does that mean i can automatically use max inside of live 8? ----------------------------------------------------
      Quoting from the press release:
      "Available as an add-on product to Ableton's newly announced Live 8..."
      I would assume that means we have to purchase an add-on for Live...
    • Jan 16 2009 | 1:02 am
      Quote: Anthony Palomba wrote on Thu, 15 January 2009 21:05 ---------------------------------------------------- > No, the info released does not say you can open Max5 patches > in Live. It says you can create devices with the objects > that come with "Max for Live" and customize those. It sounds > like "Max for Live" is a subset of Max5. > > You Cycling folk feel free to correct me. I hope I am wrong > because such a thing would be my timeline dreams come true... ----------------------------------------------------
      Max for Live is, well, a superset of Max. :) MaxMSPJitter + special features for Live integration
      If you want to create a Max Device from a Max patch, you can currently copy and paste the main patcher into an empty device. We'll probably offer a simple converter at some point, as well.
      Anyway, it's all of Max + the integration layer. I'm not really sure what you're worried about.
      jb
    • Jan 16 2009 | 1:02 am
      but:
      read paragraph "Attention Max users!" http://www.ableton.com/extend
      it's not really clear.
    • Jan 16 2009 | 1:03 am
      That's correct. If you own Max, you still need to purchase a) Live 8 and b) the Max for Live feature for Live 8. Prices are not yet announced, but if you already own Max (and Live), it won't break your bank.
      jb
      Quote: Brennon Bortz wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 01:56 ---------------------------------------------------- > Quote: James Drake wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 00:49 > ---------------------------------------------------- > > i also want to know what the deal is re: money > > > > if i own max 5 already does that mean i can automatically use max inside of live 8? > ---------------------------------------------------- > > Quoting from the press release: > > "Available as an add-on product to Ableton's newly announced Live 8..." > > I would assume that means we have to purchase an add-on for Live... ----------------------------------------------------
    • Jan 16 2009 | 1:08 am
      Ok so will editing still happen in Max the application or will editing be possible from within Live? The video would suggest yes, but it's hard to tell whether Max is just opened in the background.
    • Jan 16 2009 | 1:11 am
      When you hit the edit button on your device, Max (or the Max in Live Editor) comes to the front, where you edit your device in Max fashion. While this is happening, Live-based audio and MIDI are still being routed to and from the patch you are editing in Max -- that is, you can hear what you are doing in Max. When you save and close the device in Max, you can return to Live and work with the updated device's interface from the Live device chain.
      So, Live is where you "use" the device, Max is where you edit.
      jb
      Quote: stringtapper wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 02:08 ---------------------------------------------------- > Ok so will editing still happen in Max the application or will editing be possible from within Live? The video would suggest yes, but it's hard to tell whether Max is just opened in the background. ----------------------------------------------------
    • Jan 16 2009 | 1:14 am
      > > Max for Live is, well, a superset of Max. :) MaxMSPJitter + special features for Live integration >
      Cool. So javascript, mxj, C externals too?
    • Jan 16 2009 | 1:14 am
      Ah, so Non-Max users should be able to buy Max for Live and use devices others have made correct? Sort of a Runtime within live? But without Max there's no way to create.
    • Jan 16 2009 | 1:16 am
      Yes, yes, yes. C externals create portability issues, of course, but nothing that would surprise you if you work with collectives.
      jb
      Quote: Adam Murray wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 02:14 ---------------------------------------------------- > > > > Max for Live is, well, a superset of Max. :) MaxMSPJitter + special features for Live integration > > > > Cool. So javascript, mxj, C externals too? ----------------------------------------------------
    • Jan 16 2009 | 1:20 am
      This is going to kick ass :D
    • Jan 16 2009 | 1:27 am
      Max for Live comes with a "Max Editor" (name tba), which is essentially a full install of Max with no built-in support for audio or midi communication -- audio and midi get in and out of the Editor via Live. If you own Max, you can use "normal Max" for your "normal Max stuff" and either Max or the "Max Editor", as you prefer, for editing Max Devices from Live.
      So purchasing Max for Live essentially enables the Edit Button on the Max Device. If you don't own the full version of Max, the only Max editing you'll do is in the context of Live.
      jb
      Quote: stringtapper wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 02:14 ---------------------------------------------------- > Ah, so Non-Max users should be able to buy Max for Live and use devices others have made correct? Sort of a Runtime within live? But without Max there's no way to create. ----------------------------------------------------
    • Jan 16 2009 | 1:32 am
      Quote: Jeremy Bernstein wrote on Thu, 15 January 2009 19:27 ---------------------------------------------------- > Max for Live comes with a "Max Editor" (name tba), which is essentially a full install of Max with no built-in support for audio or midi communication -- audio and midi get in and out of the Editor via Live. If you own Max, you can use "normal Max" for your "normal Max stuff" and either Max or the "Max Editor", as you prefer, for editing Max Devices from Live. > > So purchasing Max for Live essentially enables the Edit Button on the Max Device. If you don't own the full version of Max, the only Max editing you'll do is in the context of Live. > > jb > > Quote: stringtapper wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 02:14 > ---------------------------------------------------- > > Ah, so Non-Max users should be able to buy Max for Live and use devices others have made correct? Sort of a Runtime within live? But without Max there's no way to create. > ---------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------
      I see, so Max for Live devices will be available to anyone then. My god you guys have just created a new industry.
    • Jan 16 2009 | 1:33 am
      Ahhh thats what I wanted to hear. Fantastic, finally a sequencing environment integrated with Max. Joy! Looks like I am buying Live for sure.
      But please please don't forget pluggo!
    • Jan 16 2009 | 1:39 am
      Quote: Jeremy Bernstein wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 01:27 ---------------------------------------------------- > So purchasing Max for Live essentially enables the Edit Button on the Max Device. If you don't own the full version of Max, the only Max editing you'll do is in the context of Live. > > jb
      so if you don't buy the max for live addon, you can still run your max patches in live, just can't edit them?
    • Jan 16 2009 | 1:40 am
      Quote: stringtapper wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 02:32 ---------------------------------------------------- > I see, so Max for Live devices will be available to anyone then. My god you guys have just created a new industry. ----------------------------------------------------
      Well, take that with a grain of salt. I never pay close enough attention during the marketing discussions. It may be that you need the Max in Live add-in to use the devices at all (which includes editing). I'll provide a more definitive answer after I've checked in with someone who spends more time thinking about that stuff...
      jb
    • Jan 16 2009 | 1:42 am
      Quote: Anthony Palomba wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 02:33 ---------------------------------------------------- > But please please don't forget pluggo! ----------------------------------------------------
      Pluggo hasn't been forgotten. And, as Stefan noted, a lot of the work we've done to get Max for Live working over the past couple of years is directly applicable to some potential version of Pluggo for Max 5 in the future. Max for Live will be released first, though. I can't offer any specific information about the ifs or whens of a Pluggo release. Thanks for bearing with!
      jb
    • Jan 16 2009 | 2:08 am
      OK, here's the "definitive answer":
      Users cannot use Max Devices without installing Max, obviously. Once Max is installed, they can use them, but they have to put Live into demo mode, if they don't own Max for Live.
      So maybe this is not exactly what you were hoping for, but you can probably understand why it is going to work this way.
      jb
      Quote: Jeremy Bernstein wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 02:40 ---------------------------------------------------- > Quote: stringtapper wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 02:32 > ---------------------------------------------------- > > I see, so Max for Live devices will be available to anyone then. My god you guys have just created a new industry. > ---------------------------------------------------- > > Well, take that with a grain of salt. I never pay close enough attention during the marketing discussions. It may be that you need the Max in Live add-in to use the devices at all (which includes editing). I'll provide a more definitive answer after I've checked in with someone who spends more time thinking about that stuff... > > jb ----------------------------------------------------
    • Jan 16 2009 | 2:23 am
      Quote: Jeremy Bernstein wrote on Thu, 15 January 2009 20:08 ---------------------------------------------------- > OK, here's the "definitive answer": > > Users cannot use Max Devices without installing Max, obviously. Once Max is installed, they can use them, but they have to put Live into demo mode, if they don't own Max for Live. > > So maybe this is not exactly what you were hoping for, but you can probably understand why it is going to work this way. > > jb > > Quote: Jeremy Bernstein wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 02:40 > ---------------------------------------------------- > > Quote: stringtapper wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 02:32 > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > > I see, so Max for Live devices will be available to anyone then. My god you guys have just created a new industry. > > ---------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------
      Ok so basically none of it will work without both Max 5 and Live 8 installed?
      I'm not so much hoping as trying to clear up what we're dealing with here. I use both and I'm seriously licking my chops over all of this. Thanks Jeremy for taking the time to clarify all this.
    • Jan 16 2009 | 2:31 am
      Quote: stringtapper wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 03:23 ---------------------------------------------------- > Ok so basically none of it will work without both Max 5 and Live 8 installed? > > I'm not so much hoping as trying to clear up what we're dealing with here. I use both and I'm seriously licking my chops over all of this. Thanks Jeremy for taking the time to clarify all this. > ----------------------------------------------------
      Think of it this way. Max for Live is a) a full install of Max + b) a full install of Live + c) the "bridge" code so that a) knows how to talk to b). You will always need Live for this to work (Max for Live is a _Live_ addon). You don't need to own MaxMSP to use/edit in Max for Live (although it needs to be installed for its built-in objects, shared libraries, etc.) -- in this case the Editor, with no audio/midi capabilities of its own, is used for all editing, and editing can only happen within a Live context. If you own MaxMSP, as well, you can use the normal MaxMSP app as your editor, and will be able to use MaxMSP as normal for non-Live editing, audio and MIDI communication, etc.
      Does that make sense?
      jb
    • Jan 16 2009 | 2:37 am
      Quote: Jeremy Bernstein wrote on Thu, 15 January 2009 20:31 ---------------------------------------------------- > Quote: stringtapper wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 03:23 > ---------------------------------------------------- > > Ok so basically none of it will work without both Max 5 and Live 8 installed? > > > > I'm not so much hoping as trying to clear up what we're dealing with here. I use both and I'm seriously licking my chops over all of this. Thanks Jeremy for taking the time to clarify all this. > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > Think of it this way. Max for Live is a) a full install of Max + b) a full install of Live + c) the "bridge" code so that a) knows how to talk to b). You will always need Live for this to work (Max for Live is a _Live_ addon). You don't need to own MaxMSP to use/edit in Max for Live (although it needs to be installed for its built-in objects, shared libraries, etc.) -- in this case the Editor, with no audio/midi capabilities of its own, is used for all editing, and editing can only happen within a Live context. If you own MaxMSP, as well, you can use the normal MaxMSP app as your editor, and will be able to use MaxMSP as normal for non-Live editing, audio and MIDI communication, etc. > > Does that make sense? > > jb ----------------------------------------------------
      Got it!
    • Jan 16 2009 | 2:45 am
      Quote: Jeremy Bernstein wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 03:31 ---------------------------------------------------- > Think of it this way. Max for Live is a) a full install of Max + > b) a full install of Live + c) the "bridge" code so that > a) knows how to talk to b). > > Does that make sense? ----------------------------------------------------
      That makes sense, absolutely! Thanks Jeremy for these extra explanations.
      Btw, what one could expect about device's audio performances in terms of speed?
      Cheerio, Philippe
    • Jan 16 2009 | 2:52 am
      Jeremy, congrats on your fantastic work! So I think i understand you correctly. If i own Max 4.6 and was thinking of upgrading to 5 however i'll most likely never use Max outside of Live again, then it's better to just save my money and buy the Max for live addon. as it's a full version of Max 5 and the only limits are that it only works while in Live.
      I only need the MAx 5 upgrade license if I ever plan to program outside of Live?
    • Jan 16 2009 | 3:07 am
      Quote: Ben Casey wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 03:52 ---------------------------------------------------- > Jeremy, congrats on your fantastic work! So I think i understand you correctly. If i own Max 4.6 and was thinking of upgrading to 5 however i'll most likely never use Max outside of Live again, then it's better to just save my money and buy the Max for live addon. as it's a full version of Max 5 and the only limits are that it only works while in Live. > > I only need the MAx 5 upgrade license if I ever plan to program outside of Live? ----------------------------------------------------
      That is correct.
      jb
    • Jan 16 2009 | 3:17 am
      Thanks, now the only question is, can i wait that long to play with Max 5. :)
    • Jan 16 2009 | 3:35 am
      Hey, Jeremy and C74 and Ableton, congratulations on the awesome masterpiece! (and best of luck from here to the release!)
      Prost!
    • Jan 16 2009 | 4:58 am
      How about this, might be a stretch: any word on Max For Live educational discounts? The Max 5 ed. discount is so good that I just don't want to give that up.
      On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 6:52 PM, Ben Casey wrote: > > Jeremy, congrats on your fantastic work! So I think i understand you correctly. If i own Max 4.6 and was thinking of upgrading to 5 however i'll most likely never use Max outside of Live again, then it's better to just save my money and buy the Max for live addon. as it's a full version of Max 5 and the only limits are that it only works while in Live. > > I only need the MAx 5 upgrade license if I ever plan to program outside of Live? >
    • Jan 16 2009 | 6:27 am
    • Jan 16 2009 | 9:27 am
      congratulations for maxforlive - finally i dont have to feel bad for using live anymore! and we get numberboxes with real corners - now i can make friends with max5 ;) cant wait to get my hands on this...
      p
      --
    • Jan 16 2009 | 10:36 am
      On 16 Jan 2009, at 02:31, Jeremy Bernstein wrote:
      > Does that make sense?
      I know you're going to be sick of questions soon (if not already): here's mine.
      Ableton's video suggests that Max is available inside Live as an editor extension so that instruments embedded in Live project files can be altered and saved in place. Said project files can then be shared, and (presumably) instruments can be moved between projects in the manner that tracks (with instruments) can be dragged between projects at the moment.
      How does this square with Max's orientation to a file system, with search paths, named sub-patchers, and a whole chunk of API dedicated to locating files and normalising filenames? If Max for Live cannot handle poly~ then it becomes a bit awkward to build polysynths for it - but poly~ has something of a dependency on file lookup. Ditto the FFT stuff, replicated bpatchers, and so on.
      -- N.
      Nick Rothwell / Cassiel.com Limited www.cassiel.com www.myspace.com/cassieldotcom www.last.fm/music/cassiel www.reverbnation.com/cassiel www.linkedin.com/in/cassiel www.loadbang.net
    • Jan 16 2009 | 10:44 am
      Quote: nick rothwell / cassiel wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 11:36 ---------------------------------------------------- > On 16 Jan 2009, at 02:31, Jeremy Bernstein wrote: > > > Does that make sense? > > I know you're going to be sick of questions soon (if not already): > here's mine. > > Ableton's video suggests that Max is available inside Live as an > editor extension so that instruments embedded in Live project files > can be altered and saved in place. Said project files can then be > shared, and (presumably) instruments can be moved between projects in > the manner that tracks (with instruments) can be dragged between > projects at the moment. > > How does this square with Max's orientation to a file system, with > search paths, named sub-patchers, and a whole chunk of API dedicated > to locating files and normalising filenames? If Max for Live cannot > handle poly~ then it becomes a bit awkward to build polysynths for it > - but poly~ has something of a dependency on file lookup. Ditto the > FFT stuff, replicated bpatchers, and so on. ----------------------------------------------------
      As long as it's acknowledged that we sleep sometimes, I don't think there's a problem! :)
      Without going into great detail about what it is or how it works, we have a solution for dealing with 'project management' and search paths which will minimize the portability problems. Vague and reassuring enough?
      jb
    • Jan 16 2009 | 10:50 am
      On 16 Jan 2009, at 10:44, Jeremy Bernstein wrote:
      > Without going into great detail about what it is or how it works, we > have a solution for dealing with 'project management' and search > paths which will minimize the portability problems. Vague and > reassuring enough?
      Yes - I can indeed confirm that I feel vaguely reassured.
      Great piece of work, by the way.
      -- N.
      Nick Rothwell / Cassiel.com Limited www.cassiel.com www.myspace.com/cassieldotcom www.last.fm/music/cassiel www.reverbnation.com/cassiel www.linkedin.com/in/cassiel www.loadbang.net
    • Jan 16 2009 | 11:20 am
      Quote: f.e wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 12:06 ---------------------------------------------------- > Awesome ! Thanks for the hard work ! It's Christmas in January. > > A couple of questions in order to understand if we will definitely be > able to compose music using Live as a timeline : > > 1 - how do a Max based step sequencer interact with a Live track in the > timeline ? do we see the notes / patterns created with it on a Live midi > track ? or does it work like FL Studio when it's loaded as a plugin in a > host ? > 2 - do Live have a text based track that could send message to a Max patch ? ----------------------------------------------------
      1) Think of Live as being 'the hardware' which sits behind "midiin", "midiout", "plugin~" and "plugout~". If you build a step sequencer instrument for Live (as we have), timing info comes in (via the ITM system -- the "transport" object is locked to the Live transport), MIDI comes in from Live via "notein" or whatever, and your Device responds as you have programmed it. If you define note sequences in the Device, you can use several methods -- Live presets are probably the best one -- to save and restore these. If you really wanted to create a new MIDI clip with the note content you've defined in your Device, this will also be possible using the Live API objects (live.path, live.object, live.observer), but that wouldn't be the simplest of solutions.
      2) No, Live sends MIDI, audio and timing data to your patch. If you want your patch to receive a message at 3.4.142, have it respond to that time, or have it respond to a MIDI message which arrives then in some fashion.
      jb
    • Jan 16 2009 | 11:47 am
      Quote: Jeremy Bernstein wrote on Thu, 15 January 2009 20:07 ---------------------------------------------------- > Quote: Ben Casey wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 03:52 > ---------------------------------------------------- > > Jeremy, congrats on your fantastic work! So I think i understand you correctly. If i own Max 4.6 and was thinking of upgrading to 5 however i'll most likely never use Max outside of Live again, then it's better to just save my money and buy the Max for live addon. as it's a full version of Max 5 and the only limits are that it only works while in Live. > > > > I only need the MAx 5 upgrade license if I ever plan to program outside of Live? > ---------------------------------------------------- > > That is correct. > > jb ----------------------------------------------------
      I have Max/MSP but will also only use it within Live,
      Should I sell my Max/MSP lisence?
      Cheers
    • Jan 16 2009 | 11:56 am
      Quote: marlon brando wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 12:47 ---------------------------------------------------- > Quote: Jeremy Bernstein wrote on Thu, 15 January 2009 20:07 > ---------------------------------------------------- > > Quote: Ben Casey wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 03:52 > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > > Jeremy, congrats on your fantastic work! So I think i understand you correctly. If i own Max 4.6 and was thinking of upgrading to 5 however i'll most likely never use Max outside of Live again, then it's better to just save my money and buy the Max for live addon. as it's a full version of Max 5 and the only limits are that it only works while in Live. > > > > > > I only need the MAx 5 upgrade license if I ever plan to program outside of Live? > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > > > That is correct. > > > > jb > ---------------------------------------------------- > > I have Max/MSP but will also only use it within Live, > > Should I sell my Max/MSP lisence? > > > Cheers ----------------------------------------------------
      That's between you and your spiritual advisor.
      jb
    • Jan 16 2009 | 12:30 pm
      Hi Jeremy,
      Thanks for all the info you are feeding to us..
      I've got just one quick question.
      Would it be possible to drag a audio clip into a buffer located in a MaxforLive device? That would be great for all granular and beatslicing, etc stuff....
      Cheers,
      Wilco
    • Jan 16 2009 | 12:48 pm
      There's an object called live.drop intendeed for that purpose.
      ej
      On 16 janv. 09, at 13:30, wilco alkema wrote:
      > Hi Jeremy, > > Thanks for all the info you are feeding to us.. > > I've got just one quick question. > > Would it be possible to drag a audio clip into a buffer located in a > MaxforLive device? > That would be great for all granular and beatslicing, etc stuff.... > > Cheers, > > > Wilco > >
    • Jan 16 2009 | 1:16 pm
      Great,this is great in both ways, Max for Live and Live for Max. My questions are many, from the fact that it looks like a new instrument definition for example, to more practical ones:
      1) Are send and receives objects going to be global, which means that I could have timing data/signals/whatever shared amongst Max for Live Devices for example, and a Max patch running?For example allowing me to bypass MIDI sync signals? Or will it be an "only in Live" thing?
      2) Will certain objects such as hi be available directly in the Live environment, and the possibility of using them directly inside a Live project?
      , wha so many!!!
      Any way I make my compliments, and I cannot wait too long, as many I use both extensively and I am burning for it!
      thanks!
    • Jan 16 2009 | 1:23 pm
      Allright... Cool!
      All we have to do now is wait for a releasedate ;)
      BTW if there are people like me wanting to know how much the APC40 controller is going to cost. I've just seen in a sonicstate.com video that the expected price is 399 euro/dollar and is released in may.
      Wilco
      On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 1:48 PM, Emmanuel Jourdan > wrote:
      > There's an object called live.drop intendeed for that purpose. > > ej > > > On 16 janv. 09, at 13:30, wilco alkema wrote: > > Hi Jeremy, >> >> Thanks for all the info you are feeding to us.. >> >> I've got just one quick question. >> >> Would it be possible to drag a audio clip into a buffer located in a >> MaxforLive device? >> That would be great for all granular and beatslicing, etc stuff.... >> >> Cheers, >> >> >> Wilco >> >> >> >
    • Jan 16 2009 | 1:31 pm
      Quote: Jabbo wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 14:16 ---------------------------------------------------- > Great,this is great in both ways, Max for Live and Live for Max. > My questions are many, from the fact that it looks like a new instrument definition for example, to more practical ones: > > 1) Are send and receives objects going to be global, which means that I could have timing data/signals/whatever shared amongst Max for Live Devices for example, and a Max patch running?For example allowing me to bypass MIDI sync signals? > Or will it be an "only in Live" thing?
      Live (+ any hosted libraries, incl. M4L) and Max are two separate processes and don't share memory. That means that things like send and receive will NOT work for communication between Live and Max. Naturally, send and receive work fine within the Max Device context, though -- devices can conceivably talk to one another, although if you've ever tried that in Pluggo, you probably know that there are caveats. OTOH, you can send network signals (udpsend/udpreceive, for instance) between processes...
      > 2) Will certain objects such as hi be available directly in the Live environment, and the possibility of using them directly inside a Live project?
      I haven't tested this specifically, but there's no reason why it wouldn't work.
      jb
    • Jan 16 2009 | 2:36 pm
      this looks brill!!!
      will you be able to use jitter in side live?, if this is the case it will be the best news of all time, but either way it will be the best
      mint
    • Jan 16 2009 | 2:37 pm
      Quote: strimbob wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 15:36 ---------------------------------------------------- > this looks brill!!! > > will you be able to use jitter in side live?, > if this is the case it will be the best news of all time, > but either way it will be the best > > mint ----------------------------------------------------
      yes.
      jb
    • Jan 16 2009 | 2:45 pm
      wow!!!! you have enable so many different types of practice!
    • Jan 16 2009 | 4:20 pm
      I think one of the best (and simplest) things about this is that we can now patch live without the audio clipping in and out with each signal patch chord. A huge leap for live Maxing.
      Cheers,
      Carey
    • Jan 16 2009 | 5:07 pm
      thanks, jb - i know all of us are really excited about this and your clarification is really helping.
      what about using send and receive between different patches on different tracks in live? as long as everything is within the Max For Live environment, will that type of communication work?
    • Jan 16 2009 | 5:13 pm
      Quote: waveplant wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 18:07 ---------------------------------------------------- > thanks, jb - i know all of us are really excited about this and your clarification is really helping. > > what about using send and receive between different patches on different tracks in live? as long as everything is within the Max For Live environment, will that type of communication work? > > ----------------------------------------------------
      Sure, that will work. If you've ever tried something like that in Pluggo, you'll know that there can be unexpected behavior as a result (think about it: Live has, internally, some notion of a signal chain and send and receive can be used to circumvent the calculated order of operations in some cases, leading to unexpected results. I seem to remember that there can be latency issues when using send and receive in Pluggo, but that problem may not apply in M4L (we've made some improvements to the way multiple devices are scheduled)).
      Anyway, I use Pluggo here only as a ballpark reference. M4L has much, much more to it than Pluggo.
      jb
      jb
    • Jan 16 2009 | 5:26 pm
      I guess, the question is whether you want to do that (even if it is possible).
      The whole world is suddenly becoming not just more powerful but also more complex, and at the end of the day, devices are still devices plugged into and interacting with a conductor getting fed information from him (and responding).
      I guess, it will take alot of time to master that new complexity even without randomly interconnected devices...but then again, go ahead ;-)
      I am interested in the initial stability of that huge thing....
      By the way, jeremy, not sure whether this was asked before, do you know about OSC support for Live 8 ? understanding you sitting here in Berlin :-)
    • Jan 16 2009 | 5:29 pm
      Quote: monohusche wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 18:26 ---------------------------------------------------- > By the way, jeremy, not sure whether this was asked before, do you know about OSC support for Live 8 ? understanding you sitting here in Berlin :-) ----------------------------------------------------
      Whatever I might know goes with me to my grave until such time as there has been a feature announcement confirming or denying said knowledge.
      You can certainly use OSC in Max for Live, though.
      jb
    • Jan 16 2009 | 5:30 pm
      Just to clarify, I think that Jeremy is talking about send~ and receive~ for signals. Send & receive (control) just work fine between several Live devices that are put in several Live tracks, just like between two different patches in Max - if that is what you were wondering about.
      _M
      On 16 janv. 09, at 18:13, Jeremy Bernstein wrote:
      > > Quote: waveplant wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 18:07 > ---------------------------------------------------- >> thanks, jb - i know all of us are really excited about this and >> your clarification is really helping. >> >> what about using send and receive between different patches on >> different tracks in live? as long as everything is within the Max >> For Live environment, will that type of communication work? >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------- > > Sure, that will work. If you've ever tried something like that in > Pluggo, you'll know that there can be unexpected behavior as a > result (think about it: Live has, internally, some notion of a > signal chain and send and receive can be used to circumvent the > calculated order of operations in some cases, leading to unexpected > results. I seem to remember that there can be latency issues when > using send and receive in Pluggo, but that problem may not apply in > M4L (we've made some improvements to the way multiple devices are > scheduled)). > > Anyway, I use Pluggo here only as a ballpark reference. M4L has > much, much more to it than Pluggo. > > jb
    • Jan 16 2009 | 5:35 pm
      it is indeed - thanks, and sorry for not being more specific.
      Quote: manuel wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 11:30 ---------------------------------------------------- > Just to clarify, I think that Jeremy is talking about send~ and > receive~ for signals. Send & receive (control) just work fine between > several Live devices that are put in several Live tracks, just like > between two different patches in Max - if that is what you were > wondering about. > > _M > > > On 16 janv. 09, at 18:13, Jeremy Bernstein wrote: > > > > > Quote: waveplant wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 18:07 > > ---------------------------------------------------- > >> thanks, jb - i know all of us are really excited about this and > >> your clarification is really helping. > >> > >> what about using send and receive between different patches on > >> different tracks in live? as long as everything is within the Max > >> For Live environment, will that type of communication work? > >> > >> > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > > > Sure, that will work. If you've ever tried something like that in > > Pluggo, you'll know that there can be unexpected behavior as a > > result (think about it: Live has, internally, some notion of a > > signal chain and send and receive can be used to circumvent the > > calculated order of operations in some cases, leading to unexpected > > results. I seem to remember that there can be latency issues when > > using send and receive in Pluggo, but that problem may not apply in > > M4L (we've made some improvements to the way multiple devices are > > scheduled)). > > > > Anyway, I use Pluggo here only as a ballpark reference. M4L has > > much, much more to it than Pluggo. > > > > jb > > ----------------------------------------------------
    • Jan 16 2009 | 5:41 pm
      wow, this looks pretty incredible. almost makes me want to switch over from cubase to live, but its just too different :P
      this kind of integration is great though
    • Jan 16 2009 | 5:57 pm
      Jeremy Bernstein wrote: > Quote: strimbob wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 15:36 > ---------------------------------------------------- > >> this looks brill!!! >> >> will you be able to use jitter in side live?, >> if this is the case it will be the best news of all time, >> but either way it will be the best >> >> mint >> > ---------------------------------------------------- > > > yes. > > jb > oooh...
      --
    • Jan 16 2009 | 6:02 pm
      One question thats been buggin me is that I own Live (not 8 but will upgrade once its out) and I own Max5.
      So in order to use Max5 in Live I would need to purchase the "Max for Live" add on... If thats the case will there be any reduction in price for the "Max for Live" add on for owners of Max 5? Seeing that people who just buy "Max for Live" get the upgrade price option for a full version of Max5?
    • Jan 16 2009 | 6:05 pm
      Let me be your spiritual advisor. As Max licenses are non-transferrable, you would be effectively disabling the license for the buyer. Only the original registered licensee can authorize the software.
      So hold on to your license, as it is no good to anyone else.
      -Ben
    • Jan 16 2009 | 6:06 pm
      Pricing info hasn't been released, but as has been written elsewhere in this thread, if you own both Max 5 and Live 8, the price of the Max for Live addon will be very reasonable.
      jb
      Quote: comfy wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 19:02 ---------------------------------------------------- > One question thats been buggin me is that I own Live (not 8 but will upgrade once its out) and I own Max5. > > So in order to use Max5 in Live I would need to purchase the "Max for Live" add on... If thats the case will there be any reduction in price for the "Max for Live" add on for owners of Max 5? Seeing that people who just buy "Max for Live" get the upgrade price option for a full version of Max5? > > ----------------------------------------------------
    • Jan 16 2009 | 6:13 pm
      Quote: Jeremy Bernstein wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 11:06 ---------------------------------------------------- > Pricing info hasn't been released, but as has been written elsewhere in this thread, if you own both Max 5 and Live 8, the price of the Max for Live addon will be very reasonable. > > jb
      Awesome,Thanks....I can get all excited now! YAY
    • Jan 16 2009 | 6:44 pm
      Om Nam Shiva.
      On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 10:05 AM, Ben Bracken wrote:
      > > Let me be your spiritual advisor. As Max licenses are non-transferrable, > you would be effectively disabling the license for the buyer. Only the > original registered licensee can authorize the software. > > So hold on to your license, as it is no good to anyone else. > > -Ben > > >
    • Jan 16 2009 | 6:50 pm
      I predict that this forum is gonna be explode in few months :)
    • Jan 16 2009 | 7:41 pm
      This probably is the greatest announcement I ever heard !
      With Pluggo, MaxMSP already was a tool of choice. But such a close collaboration between my two favorite pieces of music software is like a dream come true. It's a whole new era you're shaping here.
      The matter of pluggo's future and pricing for owners of both softwares seems to have been answered, hope it's gonna be as sweet as it sounds ;)
      I predict the userbase is going to explode, for the best.
    • Jan 16 2009 | 8:51 pm
      Hello, all.
      I have been entirely absent from the Max/MSP community for some years now, having been converted to the massive amount of productivity I found in other tools (specifically, Live). My license for Max/MSP 4.6 and Jitter sits on an iLok, sadly living in a dark drawer, never to grace my Intel-based MacBook.
      However, this new announcement brings me a great deal of excitement. I loved the ability to craft new tools in Max/MSP but the feedback cycle between building a tool and making it be immediately usable meant that I rarely accomplished a lot directly inside Max/MSP. This new collaboration seems like it will neatly chop out that limiting factor, opening up the world of building tools once again.
      I'm personally excited by a number of things: the ability to use Max as a way to make Live OSC-aware, the idea of having the Monome community's Max patches available inside Live, and the new Max for Live device sharing that will crop up.
      So, I'm glad to be back! Looking forward to Max for Live so I can start patching again.
    • Jan 16 2009 | 10:51 pm
      I am a Live user but also recently downloaded Max to debug/update a patch which converts midi notes to DMX commands for lights. I currently use this to play 'songs' in live which, in fact, control my light show when I DJ.
      Will I be able to use external modules in 'Max for Live'?
      My understanding is that in 'Max for Live' Midi/Audio in/out is limited to Live, but will I be able to use the module I have to talk to my USB-DMX cable inside a 'Max 4 Live' patch and receive midi notes from Live then send them out to my DMX cable.
      This would help decide for me whether I will purchase Max or Max for Live instead.
      Thanks!
    • Jan 16 2009 | 11:02 pm
      On 16 Jan 2009, at 17:41, chris wrote:
      > wow, this looks pretty incredible. almost makes me want to switch > over from cubase to live, but its just too different :P
      I started with Performer more than 20 years ago, and used Digital Performer under OS 9 (remember that?) for quite a while, but switched to Live two or three years ago. For something that's often dismissed as a DJ tool, it is a superbly engineered piece of software which is more than up to the task of composing and assembling complete works - I've used it for commercial recording and for two-hour gallery soundtracks. In particular, the automation machinery is well designed and robust. It's a bit lacking in the ProTools-style soundbite editing and finicky tempo control, but maybe Max4Live will kick things into gear.
      -- N.
      Nick Rothwell / Cassiel.com Limited www.cassiel.com www.myspace.com/cassieldotcom www.last.fm/music/cassiel www.reverbnation.com/cassiel www.linkedin.com/in/cassiel www.loadbang.net
    • Jan 17 2009 | 1:09 am
      On 16 janv. 09, at 23:54, Didier Malenfant wrote:
      > I am a Live user but also recently downloaded Max to debug/update a > patch which converts midi notes to DMX commands for lights. I > currently use this to play 'songs' in live which, in fact, control > my light show when I DJ. > > Will I be able to use external modules in 'Max for Live'?
      yep.
      > My understanding is that in 'Max for Live' Midi/Audio in/out is > limited to Live, but will I be able to use the module I have to talk > to my USB-DMX cable inside a 'Max 4 Live' patch and receive midi > notes from Live then send them out to my DMX cable.
      Live can also store automation which is just abstract values in time. So you'll be able to make a device that use your third party USB->DMX objects and uses live incarnation objects to take advantage of the Live automation for instance.
      ej
    • Jan 17 2009 | 2:28 am
      may someone be so kind as to explain the advantages of Max for Live over designing pluggo's/vst's and using them in Live?
      thanks!
    • Jan 17 2009 | 3:05 am
      > 2) Will certain objects such as hi be available directly in the Live environment, and the possibility of using them directly inside a Live project?
      Well, I slapped something together this morning in the booth with my trusty Logitech slapping a ring modulator upside the head and it "just worked."
    • Jan 17 2009 | 3:08 am
      the main thing is the ease of development flow. without interruption of the music you can edit and change/swap-out devices in realtime. with pluggo you would build in Max then test in the host app.
      check this article for how this was part of Robert and David's motivation to integrate: https://cycling74.com/story/2009/1/15/112631/799
      Quote: meloday wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 19:28 ---------------------------------------------------- > may someone be so kind as to explain the advantages of Max for Live over designing pluggo's/vst's and using them in Live? > > thanks! ----------------------------------------------------
    • Jan 17 2009 | 4:14 am
      cool, thanks. tbh, i think i'd rather design my own Live inspired pluggos, test them in Live, then perform them in Live.
      it could be kinda scary (not as stable) to patch in real-time...
      Quote: RabidRaja wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 20:08 ---------------------------------------------------- > the main thing is the ease of development flow. without interruption of the music you can edit and change/swap-out devices in realtime. with pluggo you would build in Max then test in the host app. > > check this article for how this was part of Robert and David's motivation to integrate: > https://cycling74.com/story/2009/1/15/112631/799 > > > Quote: meloday wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 19:28 > ---------------------------------------------------- > > may someone be so kind as to explain the advantages of Max for Live over designing pluggo's/vst's and using them in Live? > > > > thanks! > ---------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------
    • Jan 17 2009 | 4:55 am
      This was just too good not to pass on... I just discovered (many thanks to Matthias Schneider-Hollek for tipping me off) that JazzMutant is offering a special (now through March 15) where they're selling brand new Lemurs (with the new version 2 firmware) at their web store for 1819 Euro/USD, shipping included! Yes, you read it right... US purchasers can get a Lemur for $1819, over $1100 less than the normal list price and they throw in the shipping for nothing!
      ... hmmm... I sort of sound like an advertisement, don't I... sorry.
    • Jan 17 2009 | 7:45 am
      >cool, thanks. tbh, i think i'd rather design my own Live inspired >pluggos, test them in Live, then perform them in Live.
      >it could be kinda scary (not as stable) to patch in real-time...
      Given that we have a combined Ableton/C74 engineering effort on this, as opposed to the whims of 3rd party plug-in SDKs, you can be fairly confident that the performance of M4L will be much more stable than a pluggo plug. Very significant improvements, especially concerning timing, have already been made.
      The up close and personal access to Live via the API is something plugins are not capable of doing as well.
      -A
    • Jan 17 2009 | 9:43 am
      Quote: Jeremy Bernstein wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 11:06 ---------------------------------------------------- > Pricing info hasn't been released, but as has been written elsewhere in this thread, if you own both Max 5 and Live 8, the price of the Max for Live addon will be very reasonable.
      Dear Jeremy, I am normally a quiet reader of this forum, but a user of Max/Msp/Jitter AND Live from the first days of these programs on. Today it was time to join the forum.
      I just would like to say thank you and congratulations! This is a big step for me and I got really exited about it, when I read this yesterday. Both programs will benefit from this colaboration, I am very sure about that !
      best wishes Kurt Dahlke
    • Jan 17 2009 | 10:58 am
      Perhaps this will replace Max 5 standalone - why bother with it? Every Max owner if they don't have Live should get it - they can afford it if you could buy Max.
      Perhaps Max owners who buy Live should get Max for Live for nothing - Ableton should give C74 some money for each sale!
    • Jan 17 2009 | 11:48 am
      I must say I'm kind of awestruck with these new prices! With time the Lemur has become a logical extension of MaxMSP/Jitter for me, and that pricing...phew.
      Jonathan F. Hallstrom skrev: > This was just too good not to pass on... I just discovered (many > thanks to Matthias Schneider-Hollek for tipping me off) that > JazzMutant is offering a special (now through March 15) where they're > selling brand new Lemurs (with the new version 2 firmware) at their > web store for 1819 Euro/USD, shipping included! Yes, you read it > right... US purchasers can get a Lemur for $1819, over $1100 less than > the normal list price and they throw in the shipping for nothing! > > ... hmmm... I sort of sound like an advertisement, don't I... sorry.
    • Jan 17 2009 | 11:48 am
      Speaking only for myself, I'm very excited about Max for Live and the Akai product.
      However, having purchased both the Albeton 7 Suite and Max/MSP/Jitter in 2007, I would like to know how much it's going to cost me, if anything, for Max for Live?
      I will be upgrading my Ableton Suite 7 to 8.
      I have applied for the beta testing for Max for Live.
      I'm going to try to trade in some other equipment or sell some hardware on eBay in order to get the Akai Product for Live Performance (meaning on stage; MainStage :)
      So I hope it's not some big costly hassle to use have to purchase an expensive Max for Live.
      I would hope that Ableton and Cycling '74 can work together to provide Max for Live as a Free option when upgrading to Live 8 Suite, as I have no need for "Latin Percussion" (one of the items included in the Live Suite 8 upgrade).
      Frankly, I wish they'd just provide the option of including Max for Live as part of the Live 7 to 8 Suite upgrade and replace the Latin Percussion.
      I've just purchased Max/MSP/Jitter so I have other motivations for wanting to go the Max for Live route rather than Pluggo (though I plan to learn Pluggo in time).
      Someone from Cycling '74 please contact me regarding this if possible.
      -r
      On Jan 16, 2009, at 11:14 PM, Jared Dunne wrote:
      > > cool, thanks. tbh, i think i'd rather design my own Live inspired > pluggos, test them in Live, then perform them in Live. > > it could be kinda scary (not as stable) to patch in real-time... > > Quote: RabidRaja wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 20:08 > ---------------------------------------------------- >> the main thing is the ease of development flow. without >> interruption of the music you can edit and change/swap-out devices >> in realtime. with pluggo you would build in Max then test in the >> host app. >> >> check this article for how this was part of Robert and David's >> motivation to integrate: >> https://cycling74.com/story/2009/1/15/112631/799 >> >> >> Quote: meloday wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 19:28 >> ---------------------------------------------------- >>> may someone be so kind as to explain the advantages of Max for >>> Live over designing pluggo's/vst's and using them in Live? >>> >>> thanks! >> ---------------------------------------------------- >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------- > >