Max Msp FX Genius wanted by NYC production studio


    Apr 24 2008 | 8:50 pm
    We're looking for a Max Msp Jedi to help develop and conceptualise vocal FX treatments for an album we're mixing throughout May/June. In a nutshell you will be working on straightforward vocal transformers to help bring out the meaning of the lyrics. The position was not budgeted for and therefore unpaid however it is a genuinely awesome opportunity for programmers to get their names out there. Due credit will be given on the album.
    about us.
    www.beat360.com
    interested..
    email me - Ollie@beat360.com
    About the band...
    Velvet Code, an electro synth-rock band in NYC signed to a distribution deal through an arm of Warner Music Group, we're in final production mode for our upcoming album, set to be released this summer. Velvet Code has generated massive interest on myspace with over 38,000 friends and 4,000 plays a day. They were ranked the #1 Electronic act in the months of February and March on Reverbnation, and are on rotation on over 100 podcasts around the world. A major promotional campaign has begin at Hot Topic stores in New Jersey with a showcase scheduled in June for Hot Topic Corporate. The band is also scheduled to appear on Fearless Music TV in April.
    www.myspace.com/velvetcodeband

    • Apr 24 2008 | 9:12 pm
      Pluggo - "Granular to go" preset 3.
      -A
    • Apr 24 2008 | 9:42 pm
      Jedi gots to get paid, son.
      barry threw
      Media Art and Technology
      San Francisco, CA
      Work: 857-544-3967
      Email: bthrew (at) gmail (dot) com
      Web: www.barrythrew.com
    • Apr 24 2008 | 10:24 pm
      "that is not the preset you are looking for" - waves hands.
      IM YOUR FATHER.
      On Apr 24, 2008, at 5:12 PM, Andrew Pask wrote:
      >
      >
      > Pluggo - "Granular to go" preset 3.
      >
      >
      > -A
    • Apr 25 2008 | 12:24 am
      maybe 'Jedi' was too ambitious a word, let me backtrack 'Padawan' :)
    • Apr 25 2008 | 1:42 am
      You should use [*~ 0] to process the vocals.
      You can use it on every parts of the tracks with the same efficiency.
    • Apr 25 2008 | 9:27 am
      Oliver Hammett schrieb:
      > The position was not budgeted for and therefore unpaid however it is
      > a genuinely awesome opportunity for programmers to get their names
      > out there. Due credit will be given on the album.
      Wouldn't it be fare to take the existing budget (as there seems to be
      one) and just cut all other positions to pay that one? The "awesome
      opportunity" will apply for all I guess. Else wise you end up getting
      what you pay for, which might be less than without a "Max/MSP Jedi"
      I'd keep my hands off. If nobody gets paid it might be fine...
      Sorry for the rant, but it seems too well known... "Do it for the
      publicity..." But beware its not granted that it will help, could even
      be the opposite...
      Stefan
      --
      Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
      --_____-----------|--------------
      --(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
      -- _|_)----|-----()--------------
      ----------()--------www.ccmix.com
    • Apr 25 2008 | 10:24 am
      Needs to eat, even Padawan, he does. Requires money, for food to buy.
      Now, return air ticket TXL/JFK you pay, also hotel and food, then maybe good programmer you find. Lufthansa first class and Plaza hotel very good, we hear they are.
      Pay what you're paying the studio and you'll even find some who'll talk to you in standard English instead of a bastard mixture of Injun Joe and Yoda.
      It's all well and good to offer fame and glory, but what you get will be worth every penny you pay for it.
      Good luck anyway.
    • Apr 25 2008 | 2:28 pm
      Quote: Bertrand Fraysse wrote on Thu, 24 April 2008 19:42
      ----------------------------------------------------
      > You should use [*~ 0] to process the vocals.
      > You can use it on every parts of the tracks with the same efficiency.
      ----------------------------------------------------
      LOL, your sarcasm serves you well, you are indeed a
      powerful Max jedi...
    • Apr 25 2008 | 2:38 pm
      I have worked for free in the past. But it really has
      to be a pretty cool project. They tend to be projects
      where the artists forgo any attention to themselves in order
      to advance the artistic concept. I don't sense any altruism
      here...
      If I am going to put a lot of work into coming up with cool
      effects and get no money, hell I'll do that for myself.
    • Apr 25 2008 | 2:45 pm
      Does anyone have or know about fee schedules for programming
      projects, music for commercials/films/webpages?
    • Apr 25 2008 | 3:33 pm
      > We're looking for a Max Msp Jedi to help develop and conceptualise
      > vocal FX treatments for an album we're mixing throughout May/June.
      > In a nutshell you will be working on straightforward vocal
      > transformers to help bring out the meaning of the lyrics. The
      > position was not budgeted for and therefore unpaid
      If it's important enough to your album, then it should be important
      enough to budget for it. You aren't getting the mixing or mastering
      engineers to work for publicity, are you?
      > however it is a genuinely awesome opportunity for programmers to get
      > their names out there. Due credit will be given on the album.
      It's good that you've considered the credit angle but publicity does
      not pay the rent, especially for people living in NYC. I know plenty
      of people who could do this, but not for nothing. If you can afford
      the studio, then you can afford to hire someone, and there are plenty
      of Max Ninjas in NYC. I think that even a small fee helps as a show
      of good faith, so I'd urge you to reconsider. Play an extra live show
      and put the proceeds towards your Jedi, remembering also that you get
      what you pay for...
      The other step would be also to start learning Max/MSP. There's
      plenty of people/places that offer Max lessons in NYC (this guy
      included), and you'll find that it's a really good sonic investment.
      Also, you should probably check out Pluggo and the other various plug-
      ins that Cycling '74 and other Maxers produce.
      Peter McCulloch
    • Apr 25 2008 | 4:08 pm
      I know this project isn't for everyone & I completely understand any reticence. It seems everyone wants free labor in the music business these days..
      There are many ways you could get involved with the Velvet Code project.Even if pre-existing patches are compiled for Pluggo & licenced for our use, it's still going to help us animate the vocal in a more unique way + you'll get credited accordingly.
      Essentially we're about building forward thinking relationships. Not to get ahead of ourselves.. but from what I've seen/heard achieved with Max, I think there could be a niche for outsourcing or even representing the top programmers in New York through a top studio like ours.No one likes to name drop but check out our track record, it speaks for itself - www.beat360.com
      If you're open for discussion, drop me an email or call (number on site)
      thanks
      Ollie
    • Apr 25 2008 | 4:08 pm
      perhaps it is sacreligious and/or obvious to say but Max/MSP is not
      the only program for processing voice. There are tons of plugins both
      free and otherwise that do some pretty jedi-like things to the voice.
      check out spektral delay, mda plugins, phase vocoding, etc......
      Cheers,
    • Apr 25 2008 | 5:20 pm
      Your record is extremely impressive. So why can't you give somebody
      subway and falafel money?
      c
    • Apr 25 2008 | 6:18 pm
      Multimedia Ass-savers Union 21.5 unite, baby.
    • Apr 25 2008 | 7:13 pm
      this thread, with the addition of the interleaved bpatcher one, is now officially my favorite of the week.
    • Apr 26 2008 | 7:05 am
      He big NYC producers need maxers? And what do you write on the album?
      Max programming by padawan?
      I dunno but if it was the Cure I would have got the a bike from
      berlin to NYC. I still do music for Love, actually do I? Yes.
      In any case the Republic does not accept abuses, and since I have
      been already abused on these things by big music corporations and
      their "we work together for the future"
      I suggest to be careful.
      btw did any one tell these people that there is internet broadband
      to do these things today?
      On Apr 25, 2008, at 9:13 PM, Robert Ramirez wrote:
      >
      > this thread, with the addition of the interleaved bpatcher one, is
      > now officially my favorite of the week.
      Jacopo Carreras
      music weaver
      www.myspace.com/jacopocarreras
      www.lan-muzic.com
    • Apr 26 2008 | 10:01 am
      @Gary :
      For films :
      1 - At the contract signature = 1/3
      2 - At the delivery of the demos = 1/3
      3 - At the delivery of the final mix = 1/3
      If short time projects or good agent, skip #2 and ask 1/2 on #1
      Cheers
      f.e
    • Apr 26 2008 | 10:53 am
      Quote: robtherich wrote on Fri, 25 April 2008 20:13
      ----------------------------------------------------
      > this thread, with the addition of the interleaved bpatcher one, is now officially my favorite of the week.
      ----------------------------------------------------
      2 true... ;)
      i'm trying to build a vocal filter with a darth modulator, any suggestions? can someone do it for me?
      ...
    • Apr 26 2008 | 8:42 pm
      Oliver Hammett schrieb:
      > No one likes to name drop but check out our track record, it speaks
      > for itself - www.beat360.com
      But this "offer" dropped your reputation already a lot, the better names
      you have, the better you could pay.
      (I couldn't find any track record on taht site btw...)
      And to get this band stand out, you need someone really good, she should
      get all royalties if it would start off, if it doesn't its lame as any
      wedding job for the cv... (and wedding jobs pay usually fair...)
      Stefan
      --
      Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
      --_____-----------|--------------
      --(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
      -- _|_)----|-----()--------------
      ----------()--------www.ccmix.com
    • Apr 26 2008 | 8:47 pm
      justin schrieb:
      > i'm trying to build a vocal filter with a darth modulator, any
      > suggestions? can someone do it for me?
      If you get it together don't tell Oliver, he'll make the big bucks with
      it and let you starve...
      Sorry, that I get so furious... probably too much starving in the past
      years...
      Stefan
      --
      Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
      --_____-----------|--------------
      --(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
      -- _|_)----|-----()--------------
      ----------()--------www.ccmix.com
    • Apr 26 2008 | 10:51 pm
      Stefan
      I'm very sorry that our post has got you so furious but I feel your comments are unfair.If you were to call me & discuss (as some have) I think you'd recognise the opportunity & see we're not out to exploit starving programmers..
      to clarify
      1. we are about win:win relationships. In this particular instance there isn't money as it's a self financing, independent band with a digital distribution deal (these days amounts to little more than Itunes placement & use of the labels marketing machine)
      2. this is our first venture into Max territories. Having never worked with Max Msp programmers before, there is a certain amount of consideration/evaluation and education this end. Our thinking being that, this project is a great opportunity to reach out & see who we can build relationships with in this area & how these relationships could work. As well as record production, we are plugged into tv, film & games development - it would certainly be good to know effective, talented & easy to work with programmers for the sound design side of things.
      getting paid in the music industry is rarely black and white in our line we do 'on spec'work all the time..You mix/produce one track for no money, demonstrate your ability then get hired to do the album - it's the nature of the beast.You could always provide us with some example treatments and quote your terms for future reference rather than flatly dismiss.
      I think it's too easy to shoot people & ideas down without giving them a chance/the benefit of the doubt. If you're not interested, I respect that 100% but i think it's unfair to try & discredit us + dissuade hungry programmers who are open for discussion.
      sincerely
      Ollie Hammett
      (+1) 646 327 2575
    • Apr 27 2008 | 7:37 am
      I agree this thread is very funny, but I think a lot of people are being unfairly hostile to a rather innocent request from Ollie.
      Music is a tenuous business at best, and making a living from it often involves building up relationships over time, taking risks. The connections that pay my rent now were forged over years.
      As an art, a lot of strong music arises from collaboration, all parties usually benefit from that experience.
      So although I don't really have the time to get involved in such a project now, I can imagine a younger enthusiast could benefit greatly from it.
      cheers
      Dan
    • Apr 28 2008 | 8:13 am
      Oliver Hammett schrieb:
      > I'm very sorry that our post has got you so furious but I feel your
      > comments are unfair.
      First, thanks for a valuable response, I apologize for my ranting, but
      as you can imagine there is a reason behind it. And I think its possible
      to put the whole deal on the table. That has to have an offer as well...
      (Which I didn't have the feeling it was...)
      > 1. we are about win:win relationships. In this particular instance
      > there isn't money as it's a self financing, independent band with a
      > digital distribution deal (these days amounts to little more than
      > Itunes placement & use of the labels marketing machine)
      I think all these projects will only work out, if all participants are
      equally members of the whole game. That would mean, first is personal
      sympathy (you need to like the band), any profit has to be shared (it is
      aimed at profit as I see it). Actually that last point is what I was
      missing... That means, if it is a succes, there is payment, if it isn't
      its for learning the game...
      > 2. this is our first venture into Max territories. Having never
      > worked with Max Msp programmers before, there is a certain amount of
      > consideration/evaluation and education this end. Our thinking being
      > that, this project is a great opportunity to reach out & see who we
      > can build relationships with in this area & how these relationships
      > could work. As well as record production, we are plugged into tv,
      > film & games development - it would certainly be good to know
      > effective, talented & easy to work with programmers for the sound
      > design side of things.
      Yes, that was the other point I thought there is a missing balance. In
      the 80's I had been assistant in Berlin with some big acts in a big
      Studio. I was there to learn, and still got at least a little
      compensation. I might have done it for less, but it was a matter of
      respect for the studio, and I did learn a lot.
      This taking an opportunity to learn might be enough for compensation.
      You get taught, and instead of paying, you work...
      But what you are looking for is something you want to learn from. What
      you offer is your big amount of contacts, which might be valuable or
      not. Its probably less valuable for those who could offer a lot of
      learning to you, and more for those who don't know Max that well...
      You might just get what you pay for, which could mean you didn't learn
      what you could have learned (without recognizing it...)
      > You could always provide us with some example treatments and quote
      > your terms for future reference rather than flatly dismiss.
      I fear our taste doesn't have so much in common (maybe less than our
      clients list...), I do live experimental processing, but I do love to
      dance to music as well... ;-)
      I just felt the need to point to some unclear parts of the offer, it is
      also to protect the members of the community to get into experiences
      they might later regret. If the deal is clear, then there is no problem.
      I wrote this also to give you a hint how you could find someone who
      could really push that project. You just have to think about, what you
      personally would throw into the equation, to benefit from this project.
      If you want to learn, it ain't be for free...
      There ain't no such thing as a free lunch...
      I wish you success actually, if its really win/win it will be...
      Stefan
      --
      Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
      --_____-----------|--------------
      --(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
      -- _|_)----|-----()--------------
      ----------()--------www.ccmix.com
    • Apr 28 2008 | 4:21 pm
      I an all fairness, you are right. We should not judge anyone
      and assume thier intentions are selfush or do not have the
      greater community in mind.
      I think a lot of what you are encountering is a reaction to
      anything that smacks of the "music business". I would say that
      in general, the Max community is dedicated to the altruistic
      advancement of the music and visual arts. There are so many
      contributors who have donated their hard work and research to
      advance this cause. I guess that is why a lot of people
      react negatively to anyone who may give the impression of
      having selfish motives.
      Again, I am sure there may be those out there who might be
      interested and might benefit from your collaboration. We are
      all free to express our selves as we wish. Best of luck in
      your endeavors.
    • Apr 28 2008 | 6:12 pm
      Just for reference, the rate these days are:
      Hiring a fan: free
      Hiring a student: $10-15/hr undergrads, $15-30+ grads
      Hiring a professional: make reasonable offers after considering above
    • Apr 28 2008 | 6:16 pm
      So the title of the thread should really be "Looking for fans familiar with Max"
    • Apr 28 2008 | 6:46 pm
      I second that Post title.
      "we'll pay you when were rich and famous B.S."
      Ollie you already have all the generosity in the world with the Guru freely given away their great knowledge.
      Hi How are you hilarious stuff w.
      Max 5 is developed by Fisher-Price?
      phil
    • Apr 28 2008 | 8:30 pm
      Are you serious about those rates? Oh man, Im glad I dont do much Max freelance work these days....
    • Apr 28 2008 | 9:13 pm
      I became a guinea pig at the University of Chicago Medical School in order to purchase a copy of Max 4.6
    • Apr 29 2008 | 3:14 am
      at the very least offer some late night/early am studio time for free
      so the Max Jedi in question can at least get something out of the deal.
      3 hours of programming = 2 hour free studio time.
      that might be a win-win that costs you nothing if you have unbooked
      time at odd hours.
      just saying...
      -k
    • Apr 29 2008 | 10:29 am
    • Apr 29 2008 | 4:25 pm
      Quote: polypx wrote on Sun, 27 April 2008 09:37
      ----------------------------------------------------
      > I agree this thread is very funny, but I think a lot of people are being unfairly hostile to a rather innocent request from Ollie.
      ----------------------------------------------------
      I was trying to inject some humor without wanting to sound unduly hostile.
      While I do understand that there are many musical projects where everybody is working on a tenuous footing, I have also seen, all too often, people exploited with promises of "further down the road there will be a great opportunity..."
      It's often the "tech jockeys" who get hit by this, sometimes getting neither kudos nor remuneration, and I have seen some pretty blatant exploitation. That said, I've seen certain situations where the tech staff are the only ones with a steady salary. But I fear the former situation leaves a bitter aftertaste.
      Given that Ollie isn't just dropping the thread, there's some reason to take him at face value, that he really hopes to get some form of long-term return value to whomever he can find to work on this project.
      I'm not going to tell anyone how to do their business, but I would like to just suggest that it would encourage good faith if the (rather vague) promises of long-term benefit were to be coupled with some kind of more concrete, more immediate benefit. Studio time in exchange for development time (as suggested by Kevin) is one idea. There are other kinds of quid pro quo you could think about. Be creative.
      I will give you one piece of advice, though. Your "Max Geek" is a musician. I have yet to meet a person who got involved with Max for the sheer geekiness of it all. People get involved with Max because they have musical ideas that require technical solutions and find that they can get their heads around the technical demands of Max (or Supercollider/ProTools/Cubase/whatever) as well. A few of them are very fine musicians, indeed. If you think about your prospective "Max Jedi" as a musician, you may find more ways to make a valuable partnership in ways that go beyond little green pieces of paper.
      -- P.
    • Apr 30 2008 | 9:57 am
      On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 5:25 PM, Peter Castine wrote:
      > I will give you one piece of advice, though. Your "Max Geek" is a musician. I have yet to meet a person who got involved with Max for the sheer geekiness of it all. People get involved with Max because they have musical ideas that require technical solutions and find that they can get their heads around the technical demands of Max (or Supercollider/ProTools/Cubase/whatever) as well. A few of them are very fine musicians, indeed. If you think about your prospective "Max Jedi" as a musician, you may find more ways to make a valuable partnership in ways that go beyond little green pieces of paper.
      Along these lines... I am very skeptical of people who ask for a max
      tech dude to just fit some pieces together and/or add some cool
      effects to their project. Often people who are not experienced with
      max think IT can do this myriad of magical things when actually it is
      the max programmer who is MAKING these magical things using the
      program. Also, because of the complexities of many ideas (especially
      when you get into algorithms and interactivity) the max programmer
      usually ends up becoming more of a creative, collaborative partner as
      ideas and possibilities are fleshed out.
      adding some more change to the discussion :)
      Carey
    • Apr 30 2008 | 6:01 pm
      >
      > adding some more change to the discussion :)
      >
      I have a feeling this thread might still be running long after they finished mastering their new album...
    • Apr 30 2008 | 6:20 pm
      Adding another change to the discussion:
      Boy, Myspace pop music is unbelievably bad.
    • Apr 30 2008 | 6:43 pm
      wanted: turd-polisher
      compensation: none
      2008/4/30 Steven :
      >
      > Adding another change to the discussion:
      >
      > Boy, Myspace pop music is unbelievably bad.
      > --
      > Max 5 is developed by Fisher-Price?
      >
    • Apr 30 2008 | 6:54 pm
      I've wondered the same thing. Why Max? It kind of goes along with what I have learned from some of the responses to n00b posts here (including my own), that having a clear idea of what you want to do is nearly tantamount to having the actual working knowledge of the program itself. I don't get a sense that there is a clear idea of what they want done. It sounds like what they want could be accomplished many different ways so I wonder what it is that leads them to Max as a solution.
      They say "help develop and conceptualise vocal FX treatments" and "working on straightforward vocal transformers" but that could mean a lot. It's the "develop and conceptualize" part that makes me lean to the side of many who have criticized. That could be a LOT of work and there's nothing but "genuinely awesome opportunity" that can be offered? Really? Not even beer?! I mean I would at least expect some McDonald's at one of the "concept meetings" or something!
      I can see both sides and I understand when there actually is no money for a project and you have to rely on the kindness of your fellow humans. It's tough and sometimes that is the only option you have. But as many have said, you will get what you pay for.
    • May 02 2008 | 4:02 pm
      What i'm confused about is if it is a digital distribution deal, where's the credit going to appear? On that tiny square of artwork in the bottom left corner of itunes?
      jeez. i'm surprised no one's jumped at this chance...